[NAGDU] choosing a school

Wed Nov 1 12:29:19 UTC 2017

Not a GDB grad, but one of their trainers spoke at the NAGDU meeting this 
summer.  He stated, quite clearly and plainly, that GDB believes in food 
rewards for the lifetime of the dog.  I'm pretty sure the recording is 
available on the NAGDU site, if anyone is interested in listening to the 
entire trainer presentation.  There were a number of trainers from several 
schools.  It was my favorite session.  I especially loved the audience Q&A 
and the trainers on the spot problem solving.

Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
<https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
-----Original Message----- 
From: Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 7:06 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Tracy Carcione
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school

I wouldn't say food rewards are forbidden at TSE.  I wouldn't actually say 
anything is forbidden at TSE, since, once you finish training, you own your 
dog and can use any method you think will work, so long as it doesn't 
violate animal cruelty laws.  Trainers will encourage one method over 
another, but that's about it.
I'd say TSE uses food rewards judiciously.  We're encouraged to think the 
whole thing through, and decide if food will achieve the desired result, 
then to phase out the food once the dog has mastered whatever it is.

I am concerned about rumors I hear that GDB does not take that last step and 
phase out food.  But that may just be a rumor. I'd be very interested to 
hear the truth about it, should a recent GDB graduate care to comment.
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Bouchard 
via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:23 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: David Bouchard
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school

Hi,
The clicker training is an issue I've been concerned about myself as I apply 
to both Seeing Eye and Guide Dogs for the Blind. It is interesting to hear 
that food rewards are forbidden at Seeing Eye. I would be interested to hear 
more about the pros and cons of this system. Thanks.
David

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 31, 2017, at 9:12 PM, Andy Borka via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Jean,
>
> I recently graduated from Seeing Eye. In fact, Alec and I came home in 
> August of this year. We will attempt to answer your questions as much as 
> possible.
>
> Food rewards used or not used
> During training, food rewards are usually forbidden. The dogs are
> taught to drive from your love and praises after each successful task. 
> Only when you get home might a trainer recommend food rewards along with 
> clicker training. This is done after arriving home because your dog will 
> not have any concept of where he/she is at the time. After building their 
> confidence with a route, phase out the treats, then the clicker Skill 
> sets –Is Find the ... taught? If so, what objects or items are the dogs 
> taught to find initially?
> They are taught inside/outside and doors. Aside from this, your dog is 
> taught to generalize. An example is a table. If you normally sit at a 
> table in a lounge, then ask your dog to find a table, he might take you to 
> the one you would normally sit at, but he will take you to a table. After 
> sitting in a specific spot for a few days, he will start taking you 
> directly to that spot. Seeing Eye dogs are heavily patterned for your 
> specific needs. Therefore, most of the patterning and generalization is 
> done during class. Right now, Alec can find inside, outside, the door, 
> home, park, the bus, the wall (at a specific street corner), the service 
> desk at Walmart, the checkout register at Walgreens, the down ramp at 
> certain street corners (offset crossings), things I drop on the ground (my 
> keys on one occasion), steps (both up and down), cars I normally ride in, 
> specific people he knows fairly well, and return points during a route. 
> Most of these he learned during class or after getting home.
> Traffic work – exposure to quiet cars
> Seeing Eye has a quiet car they use during traning and traffic checks. 
> During class, staff members will drive around in different types of 
> vehicles. When students attempt to cross the street, they will give you 
> and your dog a traffic check. A traffic check is a situation where the 
> driver poses a potential danger to you or your dog. An example is pulling 
> out directly in front of you during a crossing. One of these cars is a 
> quiet car. Often, they request the general public give you traffic checks 
> at random. I remember a time where we ended up boxed in between four cars 
> during a crossing. The unfortunate complexity of this situation is the 
> cars that boxed us in were still moving. Alec expertly guided me out of 
> the problem and across the street. Traffic is an important topic. Roughly 
> 4 hours of lectures are dedicated to handling traffic.
>
> Application process: Number of references, home video The application
> process is not complicated. Go to seeingeye.org, click admissions, then 
> apply, then apply online. You create a username/password. When you arrive 
> at the application, you have to fill out sections related to contact info, 
> vision, general health, mobility, references, class date preferences, etc. 
> You have to provide three references. The cost for a dog is $150 paid to 
> the school whenever you can afford to do so. When the initial application 
> is approved, they send you medical forms to have your doctor fill out and 
> send back. They will send a trainer out to evaluate your current mobility 
> skills. Since you have a dog, I don’t know how they would evaluate 
> mobility skills. In the same visit, the trainer would give you a juno 
> walk. If everything is good to go, you will receive a class date. At that 
> time, they would walk you through the legal paperwork and travel 
> arrangements.
>
> These questions have been answered based on my own experience, and what 
> trainers have told me during class.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Jean Menzies via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 2:10 PM
> To: NAGDU
> Cc: Jean Menzies
> Subject: [NAGDU] choosing a school
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> Without going into the details now, I am looking at dog retirement, and 
> getting applications started for dog  number 7. Even if I end up delaying 
> exceptance, the paperwork will be good for two years, and there are 
> reasons to get going on it now.
>
>
>
> My current dog is from Leader. He is wonderful, and I really like the 
> skill sets that LD puts on their dogs. But in deciding if I stay or change 
> schools, I want some information on the Seing Eye as well.
>
>
>
> For anyone who has been to either school recently, or for those who have 
> been to both, I would like your thoughts on the following points:
>
>
>
> Food rewards used or not used
>
>
>
> If food rewards are used, are they phased out or maintained
>
>
>
> Skill sets –
>
> Is Find the ... taught? If so, what objects or items are the dogs taught 
> to find initially? E.g., empty chairs/benches, stairs up/down, pushbutton 
> poles, doors, inside/outside, etc.?
>
>
>
> Traffic work – exposure to quiet cars
>
>
>
> Application process: Number of references, home video
>
>
>
> I'm interested in comparing the skill sets and working styles of the dogs, 
> so please, no info on meals, rooms, etc. That's not important to me. Any 
> info anyone can provide on current training from the two programs would be 
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Jean
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