[NAGDU] choosing a school

Thu Nov 2 14:15:24 UTC 2017

Tracy,

Leash guiding on stairs is kind of a personal thing, and does also
seem to vary from trainer to trainer. For example, my particular
instructor told me to have my dog leash guide up stairs, but to guide
normally (holding the harness handle) down the stairs. I'm not sure if
this is the reason for leash guiding up the stairs or just something
I've noticed, but Thai will slip going up stair cases that have a
slick surface if I pull back on the harness. I don't use leash guiding
on stairs anymore, but I will barely pull back on the harness at all
when going up which seems to solve the slipping problem.

Keep in mind that GDF dogs actually guide on leash essentially the
same way they would in harness. So if your dog is leash guiding and
there is someone on the stairs, they will stop or go around as
appropriate.

I know there are some people who heel dogs on stairs as well, which I
suppose makes sense if you need to keep a tight grip on the railing
for balance. I personally would never heel my dog on the stairs
though, because of the possibility of people sitting on the stairs
that you mentioned. This comes up a lot for me on outdoor staircases
on nice days.

Danielle and Thai

On 11/2/17, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> GDF dogs leash guide on steps, rather than guiding in the usual way?  What
> if someone is sitting on the stairs?  You know, stairs rhymes with chairs?
> I know most people don't live in my world, so this problem may not come up
> elsewhere.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine Stanley
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:54 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Jenine Stanley
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school
>
> Hi, maybe I can clear up step refusal versus how different people navigate
> steps. the two things can be different. For anyone with balance issues or
> anyone who just prefers to go down stairs by putting one foot onto the next
> step, then the other foot down on that same step, then continuing, as
> opposed to putting one foot down on a step and the other foot on the next
> step down, foot-over-foot as it were, your dog may be taught to step down
> first then wait for a command until both your feet are firmly on the next
> step. Same is true going up. We now teach our dogs to put their front feet
> on the first step up or the up curb.
>
> If you go down stairs foot-over-foot, then at the top of said stairs, to do
> step refusal the way I know it, which is a tad old school GDF but is still
> taught to an extent, the dog will not move if you swing your right foot out
> as if to go charging down the stairs. The dog is supposed to wait until your
> left foot has found the step and is securely planted before stepping off.
> Then the dog goes down the stairs with you, on leash not harness handle. Of
> course everyone does this differently in practice and you can break step
> refusal easily if not methodical.
>
>> On Nov 1, 2017, at 2:45 PM, Jean Menzies via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> My understanding of how step refusal was taught at GDF is that the dog
>> stops at the top of stairs. The dog then waits until the human puts their
>> foot down on the first step before proceeding. I was told that this
>> ensured the person was aware of the stairs. But you are describing it the
>> other way around, which makes more sense in my mind. I don't mind the dog
>> putting  its front feet ahead and waiting. Either I'm wrong, or they have
>> changed their methodology. Hey, not the first time I have been wrong. lol.
>> Thanks for the explanation.
>>
>> GDF is on my list for consideration along with Leader.
>>
>> Jean and Bode
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: David via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 11:05 AM
>> To: Jean Menzies via NAGDU
>> Cc: David
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school
>>
>> I've never encountered the problem.  Claire stops at the top of stairs.
>>  If we are at the stairs and I can feel the edge of the step, or see
>> it, I give her a forward command and she drops down one step and waits
>> for me, then she takes the each step one at a time until we are at the
>> bottom.  I can't imagine her leading off a ledge or drop off on a
>> forward command.  Maybe I don't understand your question.
>>
>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com
>>
>> *
>> On 11/1/2017 12:10 PM, Jean Menzies via NAGDU wrote:
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> Wow, Clare Rose sounds like a dream dog. Thanks for sharing the skill set
>>> from GDF. The only thing that concerns me about GDF is step refusal. Good
>>> idea if it is a set of stairs, but not so good if you are inadvertently
>>> steppping off a ledge or other drop off thinking it is stairs. I can't
>>> get my head around going ahead of the dog. How do you manage that?
>>>
>>> Jean and Bode
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: David via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 5:09 PM
>>> To: Jean Menzies via NAGDU
>>> Cc: David
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school
>>>
>>> Hi, Jean.  My GDF pup finds chairs, doors, entrances versus exits,
>>> return to entry points in large department stores, elevators,
>>> elevator buttons, traffic buttons, escalators, counters, empty
>>> chairs, men's rooms, checkout registers, up/down stairs, and trash
>>> cans.  I'm not sure how much of that she came with, but she had these
>>> down in the first two weeks at home.  She is not great with the
>>> follow command, because she likes to lead. She is an absolute genius
>>> in crowds.  She is invisible in restaurants and keeps her nose out of
>>> food in grocery stores, less so at home out of harness.  Onsite
>>> training in Smthtown, NY, even for newbies, is only two weeks.  She
>>> is a lab golden cross.  Food rewards are your choice.  I use rewards
>>> randomly and for outstanding responses. She is a
>>> 70 pound female and a total goofball out of harness.
>>>
>>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com
>>>
>>> *
>>> On 10/31/2017 2:09 PM, Jean Menzies via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Without going into the details now, I am looking at dog retirement, and
>>>> getting applications started for dog  number 7. Even if I end up
>>>> delaying exceptance, the paperwork will be good for two years, and there
>>>> are reasons to get going on it now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My current dog is from Leader. He is wonderful, and I really like the
>>>> skill sets that LD puts on their dogs. But in deciding if I stay or
>>>> change schools, I want some information on the Seing Eye as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For anyone who has been to either school recently, or for those who have
>>>> been to both, I would like your thoughts on the following points:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Food rewards used or not used
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If food rewards are used, are they phased out or maintained
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Skill sets –
>>>>
>>>> Is Find the ... taught? If so, what objects or items are the dogs taught
>>>> to find initially? E.g., empty chairs/benches, stairs up/down,
>>>> pushbutton poles, doors, inside/outside, etc.?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Traffic work – exposure to quiet cars
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Application process: Number of references, home video
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested in comparing the skill sets and working styles of the
>>>> dogs, so please, no info on meals, rooms, etc. That's not important to
>>>> me. Any info anyone can provide on current training from the two
>>>> programs would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jean
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>>>
>>>
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