[NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker

Mon Nov 27 19:24:42 UTC 2017

Here is my two cents...

Sully was raised for 8 weeks at the Oshkosh Wisconsin Prison.  It is a maximum security prison.  The prisoners taught him the basic commands--sit, stay, come, down, fetch and house breaking.  After I had Sully for about 6 months the prison asked us to come back and speak to the prisoners who were involved and were interested in becoming involved in the program.  To be part of the program the prisoner has to have impeccable behavior and meet all the other criteria for the program.  There is a rather lengthy list of people wanting to be part of the program.  The warden I spoke with said it is actually a very highly sought after program for the prisoners to be in, and it is a huge incentive for the prisoners to want to be successful and follow all the rules.  The puppies are placed outside of the prison on the weekends to be exposed to the general population.  Someone on a prior message said some puppies are placed in the prison for 12-18 months and I do think that is way too long.

I do have to say that when we went to speak to the inmates I was very nervous.  They obviously had a very strict regimen I had to follow to the T.  I spoke to a group of about 25 men and they were very inquisitive and asked a lot of very good and important questions.  They were wanting to know how they can make the program more successful and if there was anything else they needed to be working on with the puppies.  I did get to meet one-on-one with the gentlemen who was assigned to  Sully, and I have to say it was the most wonderful experience, for both he and I.  

As far as Sully's behavior when I first got him... he never had one issue with anything--vacuuming, kids, lawn mowers, thunder etc.  He never chewed one thing up, never had an accident in the house and blended in better than I ever thought any dog would.  He only used the crate for about 1 month, I left it open for him but he just never used it so I finally put it away.  His behavior could not have been better.

In my opinion, I would recommend this program... at least the one I was involved in.  I can't think of anything negative about the program.  I also think it was a win win situation for the inmate as well as Sully and I am happy I was a part of it.

Janell and Sully pup!

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine Stanley via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 10:34 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jenine Stanley <jeninems at icloud.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker

I find it interesting that people who do not want others stereotyping or ascribing values, etc. to them would reject a dog raised in a prison environment based on stereotypes of prisoners. 

I can’t speak for all prison programs, and they all are not alike, having varying levels of support from the parent schools, but at GDF/AVD, the program has very strict enrollment requirements. Prisoners must have a certain status, i.e., having no disciplinary issues, etc., for a prescribed time. Certain types of crimes, pedifelia, animal abuse, etc., are prohibited. Many of the people who have gone into the puppy programs have committed crimes, yes, and not always white-collar type crimes, but they *must* have a clean record in prison in order to participate. 

What prisoners provide is constant attention to the puppy. They have more time to devote to honing skills and obedience. In the case of service dogs, they channel that time into teaching the rudimentary service dog tasks, like retrieve. 

when you think about exposure, what do you think of? Stores, malls, etc.? Most programs, and all of the guide dog ones I know of, have weekend raiser programs to take the puppy to such places, give it freedom in a home setting and expose it to other pets. Prisons are small cities unto themselves though. There are cafeterias, offices, heavy industry areas where the puppy can be exposed to sounds of trucks, etc. 

When I talked with prisoners at both Bedford Hills and Fishkill prisons in the ’90’s, I was struck by how for many of them, the puppy was the first unconditional love they’d experienced. The prisoners I’ve personally talked with and those in our current program would probably do serious harm to anyone  who harmed their puppies. They are fiercely committed to making the pup successful and very proud when they are able to talk, via Skype, with the handler. that’s not a requirement if you’re not comfortable but it’s an option. 
> On Nov 27, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Tara Briggs via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> So what should happen to people in prison system? I ask this because the majority of them will be released into society. Here’s a hypothetical situation but I’m curious what you always think of it. Will call him George, and he is in prison. George is in prison because he started using marijuana. He started using marijuana at a young age. He had chronic pain from say a farming accident. In order to support his chronic pain, George became a drug dealer. He sold marijuana to other people. Some used recreationally and others use it for chronic pain or epilepsy. Eventually George’s crimes caught up with him and he is now in prison. Well in prison George becomes a puppy raiser. Eventually George is released. FaceTime in prison has given him a deep love of dogs and a deep love of what they can do for people. George is now out of prison. He has discovered in himself a lot of animals in love teaching. He is working to rebuild his life and his goal is to be an instructor for one of the guide dog schools. Should George be able to accomplish the stream? I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on my hypothetical situation. But I would respectfully point out this is actually based on the true situation of a gentleman who is a paraplegic in prison.
> 
> Michael  Pelletier. You can Google him if you want to hear his full story. On the other hand I do see what you mean. There are certain people that I would not want training my dog. I wouldn’t want someone who was in prison for abusing animals training my dog. I wouldn’t want someone who was in prison for rape or pedophilia training my dog. Anyway I look forward to this further discussion. 
> Tara
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 27, 2017, at 8:04 AM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Sherry:
>> 
>> I agree with you.  When I was asked by a school if I would accept a 
>> dog raised in a prison I told the trainer absolutely no!  If it was 
>> the best guide dog that ever was, I would not accept a prison raised 
>> dog.  I cannot imagine my sweet golden girl raised by a criminal,  what an awful thought.
>> Just the thought of these innocent puppies raised by a criminal is 
>> disgusting and unacceptable to me.  The thinking these days is to 
>> rehab prisoners but to me all it is a way for them to get free 
>> educations, time off for completing their education and raising 
>> puppies is a privilege.  If they had not committed a crime they could 
>> go to school or get any job including working with dogs.  However, I 
>> think the guide and service dog schools should not allow these 
>> precious puppies near this criminals.  They need to place the puppies 
>> in safe loving homes not in a prison!  I cannot believe that the 
>> schools find themselves so desperate that they resort to allowing 
>> criminals near these puppies.  Shame on you guide and service dog 
>> schools! Please,  please think of the safety of your puppies!  I know 
>> both of us will get angry messages from the monitor of the list as 
>> well as other list members but this is a free country with freedom of speech so you and I are entitled to our opinion on this subject.
>> 
>> Sandra Johnson and precious golden Eva SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sherry Gomes via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 10:11 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Sherry Gomes
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker
>> 
>> I took one of my dogs to prison with my church choir a long long time ago.
>> We went to a minimum security prison. The guys were very happy to see 
>> my dog. Another time, I went with my cousin to see her ex-husband, 
>> who was in San Quentin for drug charges. We met in a big room with 
>> lots of prisoners and their guests, and one woman asked if her husband could say hi to my dog.
>> He was a lifer and had already been there 15 years so hadn't seen a 
>> dog in a very long time. He cried and cried when he petted my dog. 
>> Having said all that, I would not want a dog raised in prison. I knew 
>> a woman who had one, and the dog was fabulous. But years ago, I read 
>> the book small Miracles by ann Rule. Near the end, she mentioned that 
>> on one of her visits to Diane Downs for interviews, Downs was raising 
>> a puppy to be a service dog. Downs never showed any remorse about 
>> murdering one of her children and trying to murder all three. So I 
>> felt she had no right to the privilege of raising a dog. If GDB ever 
>> started having their dogs raised in prison, I'd tell them I 
>> definitely do not want one of those dogs. It might be a dumb 
>> attitude, but the idea that people like Diane Downs, or anyone like her,  could raise a dog I might get is terrible to me.
>> 
>> 
>> Sherry
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 6:45 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker
>> 
>> One of the prisons here in Iowa used to work with dogs as did the 
>> women's prison, but I can't remember if they were training them for a 
>> program. I t got too crowded for them to have a good facility. When I 
>> went to the women's prison once to participate in the church service 
>> there, several looked longingly at Fisher and said, "awe", but they 
>> had been instructed not to mess with him. I was sort of sorry they had been.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shari Cook 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 5:41 PM
>> To: David via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Shari Cook <kalilee at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker
>> 
>> America's VetDogs (a sister organization to the Guide Dog Foundation 
>> for the Blind in Smithtown, NY) has puppy raisers in prison - they 
>> are imprisoned veterans that raise pups specifically for other 
>> veterans to provide them with enhanced mobility and renewed 
>> independence.  As with GDF, there is no cost to get a pup.  The dogs 
>> spend their weekdays being trained by honor prisoners and go to a 
>> family on weekends for social exposure.  The pups typically stay at 
>> the prison for 12 to 18 months, then go off to "puppy college" for 
>> their specific formal training which lasts approximately 4 months.  I 
>> raise puppies for GDF and we often cross train with the VetDogs 
>> program.  It's amazing to see what these animals can do, from finding 
>> the button to open a handicapped entrance, to pushing an elevator 
>> button, or opening and closing doors, pulling laundry baskets, waking 
>> a veteran that's having flashbacks, to just being a general companion 
>> and getting the veteran to be comfortable in the public again.  If 
>> anyone needs more information on the VetDogs program, their website 
>> is America's VetDogs | Home
>> 
>> |
>> |
>> |  |
>> America's VetDogs | Home
>> 
>> 
>> |
>> 
>> |
>> 
>> |
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   On Sunday, November 26, 2017, 5:14:49 PM EST, David via NAGDU 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Cross-posted
>> 
>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/27/puppies-behind-bars-wit
>> h-glenn
>> -close
>> 
>> --
>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL*
>> *david at bakerinet.com*
>> 
>> 
>> ---
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