[NAGDU] Exclusionary Regulations was the two questions

NAGDU President blind411 at verizon.net
Fri Oct 13 13:25:10 UTC 2017 

Cindy,

	Technically, there may have been an error in the individual's assertion that you needed to remove your dog. Here is what the implementing regulations state as to "Exceptions":

(c)(2) Exceptions. A public accommodation may ask an individual with a disability to remove a service animal from the premises if: 
	(i) The animal is out of control and the animal's handler does not take effective action to control it; or 
	(ii) The animal is not housebroken. (28 CFR Section 28.302(c)(2))

	In subparagraph (i), there are two elements that must be met. If the animal is out of control and the handler does take effective action to correct the behavior - in your case, regaining hold of the dropped leash - you may not be legally required to remove the animal. I think it is important that each of us know our rights and be able to communicate those rights to others. Likewise, I believe it is important for those in authority at public entities or private entities that provide public accommodations to know their rights and the limits of those rights. A hard line approach, such as what you encountered, could compromise your rights and the assets of the entity.

Fraternally yours,
Marion


Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
National Federation of the Blind
(813) 626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG


The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds you back.


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 9:33 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Cindy Ray
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] the two questions

My dog did pull away. I got him back quickly, but because he got away from me he was not under my control technically. I doubt the other dog was required to leave the park. I was leaving anyway, but this man said I would have to leave.
Cindy Lou Ray
cindyray at gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m gina via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:13 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: d m gina <dmgina at mysero.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] the two questions

Original The dog was barking at your dog and you got kicked out?
Something is wrong with this picture.
message:
> The lack of distraction if the dog wasn't in there might be so, but 
> Andy, keeping your own dog under control is still your responsibility.
> Once my dog broke away from me at a park because he does that, and 
> this little ankle biter was barking at us. I got him back quickly, but 
> I was kicked out of the park. It doesn't matter what distracted your 
> dog, it is your responsibility to keep him behaved.

> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 6:49 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] the two questions

> This is a good point. Under these guidelines, an entity such as 
> Walmart, Target, or Best Buy cannot refuse us our service dogs. On the 
> other hand, since Walmart, Target, and Best Buy have public policy 
> against untrained animals from entering their stores, it is in our 
> best right to educate the managers about the subject. Of course, we 
> have the responsibility of keeping our dogs under complete control. 
> However, when people publically admit that their purse or cart dogs 
> are vested as E.S.A dogs or publically admit that they brought their 
> pet into Target because they had no one to petsit and leaving said pet 
> in a 80 degree car for more than 15 minutes is not sensible, we also 
> have the responsibility of informing the manager that a customer who 
> willingly violated known policy distracted my service dog from work. 
> If that customer did not bring their pet into Best Buy, Alec would 
> have never gotten distracted.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 6:20 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] the two questions

> marion,You bring up an interesting distinction - your non-disabled 
> sister cannot bring your disability-mitigating service dog into places 
> of public accommodation.When I traveled in Montana, I got asked, on 
> two separate occasions, if Jenny was *MY* service dog.it was a 
> distinction I hadn't considered before, and I think I like it :)Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: NAGDU President via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
> Sent: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:36:58 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] the two questions

> Julie,

> Though it might seem like a minor correction and we understand that an 
> entity may nhot always phrase the questions correctly, I think it is 
> important that everyone learn the correct phrasing of the questions 
> and why this phrasing is important so we can share them with those who 
> need to know. Here are the questions, along with their explanation:

> 1. Is this a service dog required because of a disability? - The 
> implementing regulations of the Americans with Disabilities Act 
> require public entities and private entities that provide public 
> accommodations to modify their policies, practices, and procedures to 
> allow an individual with a disability accompanied by a service animal 
> access to the places all patrons are allowed. Someone who does not 
> have a disability is not necessarily allowed to bring an animal into a 
> place, even if the dog is a service dog. In other words, my sister, 
> who is not disabled, does not have the right to bring my service dog 
> into a place that does not allow pets, since she is not covered by the 
> Act under this circumstance.
> 2. What tasks or work has the dog been trained to perform? - The 
> essential element of a service dog is that it has been trained to 
> perform tasks or do work that mitigates a person's disability; 
> therefore, "trained to perform" is a very important phrase. By helping 
> those in authority to ask the question correctly, we also help them 
> understand the difference between trained tasks and innate abilities, 
> such as comforting someone with anxiety or cheering up a person with 
> depression, as opposed to task and/or work training. We also empower 
> them to assess the veracity of the first question as to whether or not 
> the dog is really a service animal.

> I think it is also important to share with them that, if a dog is 
> observed doing work or performing tasks that mitigate the disability, 
> e.g., the dog is observed guiding a person who is blind or pulling a 
> wheelchair, such questions are generally not permitted.

> Finally, since we are in the midst of "Meet the Blind Month", the 
> National Association of Guide Dog Users has an excellent brochure with 
> full-color pictures of guide dogs at work in various settings 
> available through our Independence Market at the Jernigan Institute. 
> Furthermore, we are actively producing other material specific to 
> particular industries in a variety of media. Our website is also an 
> excellent source of accurate information about the rights and 
> responsibilities of service animal users and access to public and 
> private entities. If anyone has questions or comments, please keep 
> this thread going, since this is an important resource for us all to 
> learn and grow in our roles as advocates!

> Fraternally yours,
> Marion

> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National 
> Federation of the Blind
> (813) 626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG


> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the 
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise 
> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind 
> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is 
> not what holds you back.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie 
> Johnson via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:37 AM
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
> Cc: Julie Johnson
> Subject: [NAGDU] the two questions

> I think most everyone here knows the two questions the DOJ’s guidance 
> on service animals under the ADA allows.
> Is that a service dog?
> and
> What tasks does the dog perform?

> However, my understanding is that it is the business that can ask 
> these questions. These questions aren’t open for anyone to ask and 
> answers be required. So I’m thinking that if there is an issue with 
> another dog in a store, it isn’t up to the other shoppers to be asking 
> the two questions. It is up to the store management to ask and deal 
> with any issues that come up.

> Thoughts?
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com 
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall 
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?stor
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