[NAGDU] re post on air b and b
David
david at bakerinet.com
Thu Sep 21 16:34:21 UTC 2017
There is a possibility that an VRBO could assert that the dog presents a
*direct threat* to this purported other renter, but the argument is
specious. Medical evidence is pretty conclusive that this would not
present a threat if the premises was properly cleaned in the normal
course of business.
Like you, I'm not a lawyer, but the plain language is pretty clear.
*David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL*
*david at bakerinet.com
*
§36.208 Direct threat.
(a) This part does not require a public accommodation to permit an
individual to participate in or benefit from the goods, services,
facilities, privileges, advantages and accommodations of that public
accommodation when that individual poses a direct threat to the health
or safety of others.
(b) In determining whether an individual poses a direct threat to the
health or safety of others, a public accommodation must make an
individualized assessment, based on reasonable judgment that relies on
current medical knowledge or on the best available objective evidence,
to ascertain: The nature, duration, and severity of the risk; the
probability that the potential injury will actually occur; and whether
reasonable modifications of policies, practices, or procedures or the
provision of auxiliary aids or services will mitigate the risk.
On 9/21/2017 12:19 PM, David via NAGDU wrote:
> Marion, the citation posted by Alysha has essentially the same
> language that you previously posted. It appears to have just changed
> the numbering and paragraph structure.
>
> Place of public accommodationmeans a facility operated by a private
> entity whose operations affect commerce and fall within at least one
> of the following categories—
>
> (1) Place of lodging, *except for an establishment located within a
> facility that contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and
> that actually is occupied by the proprietor of the establishment as
> the residence of the proprietor*. For purposes of this part, a
> facility is a “place of lodging” if it is—
>
> (i) An inn, hotel, or motel; or
>
> (ii) A facility that—
>
> (A) Provides guest rooms for sleeping for stays that primarily are
> short-term in nature (generally 30 days or less) where the occupant
> does not have the right to return to a specific room or unit after the
> conclusion of his or her stay; and
>
> (B) Provides guest rooms under conditions and with amenities similar
> to a hotel, motel, or inn, including the following—
>
> (1) On- or off-site management and reservations service;
>
> (2) Rooms available on a walk-up or call-in basis;
>
> (3) Availability of housekeeping or linen service; and
>
> (4) Acceptance of reservations for a guest room type without
> guaranteeing a particular unit or room until check-in, and without a
> prior lease or security deposit.
>
>
>
> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com
>
> *
> On 9/21/2017 8:46 AM, NAGDU President via NAGDU wrote:
>> Alysha,
>>
>> I will post the response I get from our legal counsel when it is
>> received.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>
>>
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is
>> not what holds you back.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Alysha via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 8:09 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Alysha
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] re post on air b and b
>>
>> Marion,
>> I'd be very interested to hear what you find out about this. Thanks
>> for checking into it!
>>
>> Alysha
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2017, at 7:56 PM, NAGDU President via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alysha,
>>>
>>> You can disregard my previous message requesting a citation.
>>> This is what I was looking for. Now I will need to get in touch with
>>> our legal counsel to see if there has been any case law on this issue.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>
>>>
>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
>>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is
>>> not what holds you back.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Alysha
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 9:31 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Cc: Alysha
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] re post on air b and b
>>>
>>> Marion,
>>> Can you share where you found the ADA excerpt you posted below? I
>>> may be doing something wrong in my search, but when I read the 2010
>>> Title III regulations, the language about owner-occupied residences
>>> with 5 or fewer rooms is no longer there. Instead, it lists the
>>> longer description of what qualifies as a covered place of lodging
>>> that I posted previously. That description seems to exempt Air B&B
>>> and VRBO rentals. Here is the link where I found this info:
>>> https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=2ab2aab2d3d2fd0f544a5ce7aad8f04c&rgn=div5&view=text&node=28:1.0.1.1.37&idno=28
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alysha
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU
>>> President via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 2:37 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] re post on air b and b
>>>
>>> Gabriel,
>>>
>>> I know Mike Hingson has already addressed this topic; however, I
>>> wanted to share some information about how private companies become
>>> covered entities under the law. Title III of the ADA is entitled
>>> "Public Accommodations and Services Operated by Private Entities".
>>> Within this Title is a list of 12 broad categories of private
>>> entities that are considered public accommodations. We have often
>>> encountered challenges from law enforcement stating that such and
>>> such a company is a private company and can refuse service to anyone
>>> they wish. As true as this may be, there are certain protected
>>> classes of people whose characteristics cannot be used as reasons to
>>> exclude them. The most obvious is race but it also includes,
>>> ethnicity, religion, gender, familial status, sexual orientation,
>>> and, since the passage of the ADA, disability. For everyone's
>>> edification, here is the list of covered entities as it appears in
>>> Title III of the ADA:
>>>
>>> (A) an inn, hotel, motel, or other place of lodging, except for an
>>> establishment located within a building that contains not more than
>>> five rooms for rent or hire and that is actually occupied by the
>>> proprietor of such establishment as the residence of such proprietor;
>>>
>>> (B) a restaurant, bar, or other establishment serving food or drink;
>>>
>>> (C) a motion picture house, theater, concert hall, stadium, or other
>>> place of exhibition or entertainment;
>>>
>>> (D) an auditorium, convention center, lecture hall, or other place
>>> of public gathering;
>>>
>>> (E) a bakery, grocery store, clothing store, hardware store,
>>> shopping center, or other sales or rental establishment;
>>>
>>> (F) a laundromat, dry- cleaner, bank, barber shop, beauty shop,
>>> travel service, shoe repair service, funeral parlor, gas station,
>>> office of an accountant or lawyer, pharmacy, insurance office,
>>> professional office of a health care provider, hospital, or other
>>> service establishment;
>>>
>>> (G) a terminal, depot, or other station used for specified public
>>> transportation;
>>>
>>> (H) a museum, library, gallery, or other place of public display or
>>> collection;
>>>
>>> (I) a park, zoo, amusement park, or other place of recreation;
>>>
>>> (J) a nursery, elementary, secondary, undergraduate, or postgraduate
>>> private school, or other place of education;
>>>
>>> (K) a day care center, senior citizen center, homeless shelter, food
>>> bank, adoption agency, or other social service center establishment;
>>> and
>>>
>>> (L) a gymnasium, health spa, bowling alley, golf course, or other
>>> place of exercise or recreation. (42 USC 12181(7))
>>>
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National
>>> Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>
>>>
>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
>>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is
>>> not what holds you back.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gabriel
>>> Moloney via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 3:27 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Gabriel Moloney
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] re post on air b and b
>>>
>>> Good day all
>>> I have been following this thread, over the last day or two, i have
>>> found it slightly strange, in the following ways:
>>> 1: I thought that all homes, on the air b and b website and network
>>> were private homes that offer alternatives to costly hotels, motels
>>> etc,. So my curiosity has gotten the better of me now, in the
>>> following way, if they are private homes does this not give the
>>> owners certain rights, that is they can refuse anybody accommodation
>>> or entery to their house, or since they are letting their homes,
>>> rooms etc to the public does federal and state law differ on this
>>> matter? In other words are they now public property while being
>>> rented out? or are they still private homes? This is where my
>>> curiosity has kicked in The second question that I have for this
>>> list, is the following and some people might not agree with this
>>> second part of the post, but just give me a moment to explain after
>>> the question. This question had to do with whole idea of ID Cards
>>> and disclosure when booking places or transport. I know, that this
>>> type of question, can get the blood boiling, and others might agree
>>> with the whole idea of carrying a ID Card, I can only talk about the
>>> regulations and law in the Republic of Ireland, now when you qualify
>>> with your guide dog from the one school you are required to carry
>>> your ID Card that is issued to you at all times, their reasoning for
>>> this is to “save embarrassing moments for you as a guide dog owner,
>>> for the staff and for members of the public”. On the cards that are
>>> issued there is a photograph of you and the law is printed on the
>>> reverse side the law is printed on it stating your rights under
>>> equality law.
>>>
>>> This ID Card does not apply to me, as my current guide is not from
>>> that school, so I do not have their ID Card, I do have and carry the
>>> ID Card that I received from Pilot dogs, but that means very little
>>> in Ireland, I have only being asked to show it once and that was on
>>> a public transport bus, that was dealt with very speedy by myself
>>> and the bus company, it is very rare now, that you would be asked
>>> for ID Cards in Ireland, but if your dog is from the guide dog
>>> school again they state to you that you have to carry it with you at
>>> all times, finally the whole idea of disclosing when booking
>>> transport or hotels etc the school again tell you that you have to
>>> inform them that you have a guide dog again see the quote above, yes
>>> I would have been guilty in the past of doing this on a couple of
>>> occasions but with my guide now, no i do not, and I have seen the
>>> benefit of not disclosing, so my mind et was changed over the last
>>> year and that was due to talking to somebody on this whole issue,
>>> and I am very thankful to that person.
>>> Many thanks for allowing me to put my thoughts out here in regards
>>> to the air b and b question and ID card part of this email gabriel
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>>
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>
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