[NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog

Jordan Gallacher jordangandbelto at gmail.com
Tue Aug 7 00:01:30 UTC 2018


That is false information.  More disability training is needed if you are running into that.  Like I have said in other posts, Southwest and American have been the only two airlines I have used recently and have had no problems.
Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Andy Borka via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 5:14 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Andy Borka <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog

American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.

Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: nellie at culodge.com
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog

I flew to O'Hare in Chicago.  For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate.  They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever.  I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair.  Not thinking it was for me I didn’t say anything.  The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India.  She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn’t understand.  I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down.  I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me.  I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair.  Then we  started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.)  She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow.  I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing.  I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.  

Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?

On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable.  In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me.  I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.

Happy Monday, Janell and Sully

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog

HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:

Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
Agent: Okay.
Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
Melissa: I can walk just fine I don’t' need a wheelchair.
Rinke and repeat.

Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.

  Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
973-539-4425 ext. 1724,     Fax:  973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org  


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
Cc: Dan Weiner
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog

thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
conversation:

"is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.

Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"

Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".


Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".

And so on and so on.  I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.


You take care


On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta.  Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>
> Mary Beth Metzger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa 
> Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>
> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>
> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>
> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>
> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>
> I hope that helps some.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724,     Fax:  973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
>
> Hello, beautiful people:
>
>
> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>
> I want to clear up  something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records  or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems.  So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with  it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>
> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>
> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user 
> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms  or do anything 
> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic 
> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying 
> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual 
> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog  users saying 
> "Oh I filled out the  forrs and I had no problems the airline such and 
> such was very
> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>
> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>
>
> Yours,
>
> Dan and the Parker Hound
>
> smile
>
>
>
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