[NAGDU] Faster training times. Is this a growing trend?
Tracy Carcione
carcione at access.net
Wed Aug 22 12:07:49 UTC 2018
Hi Nancy.
What day do you return from class? I always like a day or 2 to recover, get back in the swing of things, do my laundry and house-cleaning ...
But TSE turns us loose on a Thursday, as I recall, so taking off the Friday too works well for me.
Tracy
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 7:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Faster training times. Is this a growing trend?
I’m looking forward to my new experience with GDB!
Plus we’re going over Thanksgiving break which means I’ll only miss 7 days of work instead of 10. I’m thinking of taking the Monday we return off though, thoughts anyone?
Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated using voice dictation
Nancy Irwin
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 21, 2018, at 7:12 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
I might be in the minority here, but I really liked the two week class even though I was getting my first dog. It was a lot of information and a lot of walking in a short time, but I personally am fine and very much used to little down time and receiveing a lot of information at once. I'm actually glad I didn't have much sitting around and waiting. Because both GDB and GDF have a 2:1 student to instructor ratio, you actually spend the same, if not more, time working with an instructor during two week classes as you do with four week classes.
I did receive my dog just six months after GDF switched to a two week class. They have made a lot of changes over the last four years or so that I think for the most part make the two week class more effective, clearly modeled off of GDB. Providing lecture material ahead of time and using the "obstacle course" when working from the building to the vans are two strategies that allow for more practice for the team and less of an overwhelming amount of knowledge for the handler. Two
week classes are, in my opinion, a lot more practical for people to take time away from their jobs and lives. THREE or four week classes though certainly allow for a comparatively relaxed atmosphere. I imagine longer classes might be easier for people with certain disabilities or medical conditions because you don't walk as much each day. longer classes might also be more appealing for people who have little to no experience with dogs. I think it is a bit easier to learn all of the guide dog specifics in a shorter time if you have some knowledge or experience with dogs in general first.
It is probably a good thing that there are choices for longer and shorter classes out there.
Also, one thing to note is that any technique you choose not to continue once home should be reduced gradually if it has been a significant part of the dog's training or experiences. Dropping food rewards or what ever technique is totally fine once home if the dog still continues to work effectively, but dropping it too quickly could cause work to suffer.
Danielle and Thai
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 21, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I pretty much did the same with food reward. Dropped it when I came home
> from GDB. However, the way Leader uses food reward, I still use time to
> time.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:11 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Faster training times. Is this a growing trend?
>
> Hi Danielle.
> I think everyone obsesses over something before going to class, and maybe
> footwork is your obsession. I have found, when I actually get to class,
> whatever I was obsessing about turns out to be no big deal.
>
> Like Becky's husband, my brother isn't big into food rewards, so he learned
> the technique at GDB, then pretty much dropped it when he got home.
>
> It's good to research and find out all you can, but I think a person also
> has to listen to what their heart is saying about some place. So, if I
> found that 2 schools looked fairly equal in quality, I'd go with the one my
> heart was telling me was right. Facts matter, of course, but I think it
> also helps a lot to have confidence in the school you choose, and to feel
> comfortable there.
> Tracy
>
>> Yes that is what I am talking about. The emphasis is more on the lef
>> foot whereas my previous training emphasized the right foot. ALso, you
>> don't just stop you have to give the halt command otherwise the dog
>> views this as a negative as in something is wrong. Then, there are the
>> heavy emphases on food rewarding. There are also differences where
>> making turns and during sidewalkless work. GDF also has a 2-week
>> program for anyone interested. My gut is just tellling me it's alot to
>> unlearn in such a short period of time.
>>
>>> On 8/20/18, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> So I will be going to GDB for my next dog and I'm curious to see how
>>> well this goes for me. I've noticed that their handling style is
>>> different such as having to do a lot with your left foot and I'm just
>>> a right foot person and of course working on some bad habits.
>>> I've previously been to a four-week training experience and
>>> one-on-one training when we had to retire my first guide quite young.
>>> I'm honestly looking forward to it and the shorter timeframe works
>>> better for my working life.
>>> Just my two cents.
>>> Nancy
>>>
>>> Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated
>>> using voice dictation Nancy Irwin Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 20, 2018, at 1:08 PM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is my theory, and I'll stick to it until I see good evidence to
>>> change it:
>>> For first-timers, it's about learning how to work with a dog, and
>>> bonding with a particular dog, and it takes time and practice to
>>> learn a new skill. It's like learning to dance; you may have a great
>>> teacher, but it still takes lots of repition to do it smoothly and to
>>> set new habbits.
>>> For retrains, class is about learning to work with a new dog, and
>>> hopefully reshaping some bad habbits. Otherwise, they could just
>>> drop off the dog and work with you over the phone, and wouldn't that
>>> be nice.
>>> But
>>> it takes a while to learn to dance with a new partner, too,
>>> especially an inexperienced partner. And, in my experience, it takes
>>> a while for the dog to get comfortable and come out of its shell.
>>> For the first week or so, it usually has on its company manners, but
>>> then it starts showing more of its whole self, and often seeing how
>>> much it can get away with. Or it starts to see that this is for
>>> real, and can get a bit stressed and start working differently.
>>> The upshot is, it takes time to do some things, and there's a limit
>>> to how much can be cut off that time.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>> I love the two week classes, and now that I am employed, I could not
>>>> see doing anything longer. Leader's Florida class is even shorter
>>>> at only
>>>> 10
>>>> days, and that worked well for me for a bunch of reasons one of
>>>> which it was short and two I know Naples like the back of my hand.
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via
>>>> NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:19 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs <thflute at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Faster training times. Is this a growing trend?
>>>>
>>>> Hey Tracy! Sorry about the dictation mistake. I listen back but I
>>>> donâ?Tt always catch them. I accidentally sent my friend a text
>>>> message with the mother of all swearwords in the middle of it. For
>>>> some crazy reason I completely missed it. We had a good laugh about
>>>> it. Anyway, if there are any GDB graduates on this list, what do you
>>>> think about the shorter training times? How short are they? I would
>>>> love to hear your thoughts.
>>>> Tara
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Tara.
>>>>> I've done the schedule you're doing at TSE twice, and it's been fine.
>>>>> A
>>>>> couple of my classmates had dog switches, so had to stay extra with
>>>>> the first-timers, but that's a great thing about the way TSE runs
>>>>> classes--retrains get out early, unless there's a problem.
>>>>> I do think first-timers need more time to get accustomed to working
>>>>> a dog, as well as getting into good habits of work and care. I
>>>>> think GDB is offering everyone very short classes, and I'm not sure
>>>>> that's a good thing. But then it's been a long time since I was a
>>>>> first-timer, and maybe it's not as hard as I remember.
>>>>> I think, overall, it's a good thing. Most of us have active lives,
>>>>> and it can be hard to get away.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm very amused that your message said "guy ducks" for Guide Dogs!
>>>>> Dictation, I guess.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara
>>>>> Briggs via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:15 PM
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Faster training times. Is this a growing trend?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all! I recently got the wonderful news that I will be going to
>>>>> get my new puppy on September 24. I will be going to the seeing
>>>>> eye. Back in 2009, I arrived on the Saturday and we got our dogs on
>>>>> Monday afternoon.
>>>>> This time, I will be arriving on Monday and we will get our dogs on
>>>>> Wednesday morning. This arrival on a Monday means that our training
>>>>> at the Seeing Eye has been shortened by two days. I gather that
>>>>> other kind of schools have done a similar shortening of training. I
>>>>> think that guy ducks the blind has shortened their training by
>>>>> quite a bit although I donâ?Tt know this for sure. Anyway, am I
>>>>> accurate in saying this is a growing trend among Guide dog training
>>>>> schools? If so, what are anyoneâ?Ts thoughts or experiences?
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> Tara
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>
>>
>> --
>> How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,
>> compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and
>> tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life you will
>> have been all of these.
>> George Washington Carver
>> Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com
>>
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