[NAGDU] Belto is heading for retirement pretty soon

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Wed Aug 29 16:50:55 UTC 2018


I think there have been some good ideas suggested here. This has been an ongoing problem for Jordan for a very long time. Judging how he does or does not handle his dog when we don't know him and haven't seen how he works a dog is rather pointless I think. I really do believe that Jordan has made a decision on this situation.
As for how dogs behave with trainers: sometimes just seeing one reminds them that the authority will keep them in line so they decide to do it. They remember that experience. That may not be a reflection on the handler. I do think we want to be careful about judging someone based on what he or she has told us in the messages. We aren't there on a day-to-day basis. Mostly the ideas have been good ones and would give us pause to consider what it is we are doing, but we can't  have an opinion on, for instance, whether someone is too permissive with their dog. We aren't there; we don't know.
Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
cindyray at gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Monse via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 11:42 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Monse <monse_v at aol.com.mx>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Belto is heading for retirement pretty soon

My opinion is that your dog's behavior could be caused by the move in some way, but also, and perhaps the most powerfull reason, because he's not getting any limits from you. I assume this because you said your dog behaves well when a trainer is around, so probably you're being too permissive to the poit that the dog learned he can do whatever he wants and won't receive any reprimand from you. I suggest using the prong collar when in harness, crate him all the time he's not working and play with him a little after you've worked him. That way he'll learn that if he does his job, he will get the chance to play and be out of his crate. I know of some cases  similar to yours here in my country, but the difference is that here LDB users don't receive any real follow-up, so a few  of them are seeking help from a local organization trainer.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] En nombre de Debra Chandler via NAGDU Enviado el: miércoles, 29 de agosto de 2018 10:50 a. m.
Para: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
CC: dchandler001 at carolina.rr.com
Asunto: Re: [NAGDU] Belto is heading for retirement pretty soon

Hi.  Why not use a pinch collar  if you think it would help and the school approves it?  I'm assuming you've already tried the gentle leader.  Daily obedience too of course.  From your description, Delco seems generally out of control.  Your school should help your team with this before retiring him.
Deb and Tally
---- Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote: 
> If he was doing these things before the move, then probably time to 
> settle
into the new routine isn't going to make much difference.  Still I think it's important to consider all the possibilities.

Stopping in the middle of the street to address dog  behavior issues is not my thing, especially not in a busy street.  I suppose if I could get it down to a pause and immediately get on my way, I'd do it.  A complete stop with several seconds of behavior intervention though, absolutely not happening.

Have you considered heeling him across streets and using your cane?  At least you'd be safe until you can sort out a long term solution.

Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 8:59 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Jordan Gallacher
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Belto is heading for retirement pretty soon

Field reps drive me bananas.  The one that showed up thinks it is perfectly safe to stop in the middle of a busy street to get the dog re-focused. 
Ridiculous thing to do if you ask me.  Belto decided to behave himself with the field rep here.  Going to be keeping an eye on things to see if he decides to calm down and work properly after today, but with these problems going on before I moved, I don’t think they will be getting any better.
Jordan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Jordan
>
> I agree with Tracy.  If Belto is not safe then retirement is the best 
> thing. Your safety has to be the priority.  I have also retired some 
> very young dogs.  Although I loved them I knew I was not safe working them.
> Remember to stick to what you want not what the trainer wants.  You 
> are the one at the end of that harness handle so you need to do what 
> is best for you.  I know from your posts to this list that you have 
> tried very hard with Belto. It seemed at times he was getting better 
> but then things got worse again. My thoughts and prayers are with you 
> as you make this very difficult decision.  Stay safe and good luck.
>
> Sandra and Eva
> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 10:36 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Belto is heading for retirement pretty soon
>
> Hi Jordan.
> If you feel his work is putting you in danger, then do not hesitate to 
> retire him, for your own safety.  And his, as well.
> I retired my first dog when she started going way left in street 
> crossings. One day, a bus came too close to us for comfort, and I 
> decided that was it, and put in my application for class when I got home.
> I also retired a dog who was getting so stressed by work he became unsafe.
> When the work stress was removed, he became a much happier dog, and I 
> became a happier person.
> I know it's hard to give up on a dog and retire it young, but 
> sometimes it's really best for both of you.
> Good luck.
> Tracy
>
>> Well, i am beginning to think about retiring Belto.  His work is much 
>> too dangerous to continue working him.  He has developed a weird 
>> thing of pulling much to hard to the left and especially during 
>> street crossings, we end up in a lane of traffic.  Telling him find 
>> the curb is not doing much nor is telling him right find the curb.
>> He just looks around and continues straight ahead.  Also, his 
>> sniffing and distraction level has increased quite a bit.  If that 
>> was the only problem, i could work with that.  Around other guide 
>> dogs at work is a problem as well.  He is quite literally chasing 
>> them among other things.  Leaving work it was even worse.  I told him 
>> forward, and all he wanted to do was do a 180 and take off after the 
>> dog that was behind me more than once.  Not going to even mention 
>> what he tried to do while I was walking to the table at the 
>> restaurant, but it involved, him lunging at the waiter.  i ahve a 
>> field rep coming down tomorrow after work, but unfortunately from 
>> talki ng to him on the phone and prior dealings I have had with this 
>> particular person at another school, tomorrow is not going to get 
>> anywhere.  So, I am beginning to look at options guide dog school 
>> wise unless something can be done to get Belto to start acting the 
>> way he should again.  I know what I need to do, pinch collar will do the trick with him again, but it has not made it up to PA from Louisiana yet.
>> Jordan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
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