[NAGDU] A quick check - a text to speech question
Retina
pwolf1 at wolfskills.com
Mon Dec 24 20:07:04 UTC 2018
Hi all,
Just a quick tech check. My screen reader gets a little funny with some punctuation marks, and I want to check with you, to see if you encounter the same thing. I have it in mind to try to adjust something, if something that I write to might read back, less clear through (your) screen readers.
If I enlarge my screen, I can make out that that any place where I have written an apostrophe to make a conjunction, such as I'll …(the conjunction for I will, as in... I will go to the store today… then it does not come back as an apostrophe; it comes back instead as a question mark. This also happens with quotation points in my computer. Does this read normally on your screen readers? Or does it mess up understanding a little also when you hear your TTS read it? If my messages get a little complicated by this, please just let me know , and …(I will)… make an effort to write with less quote marks or conjunctions! Thanks all. -Peter
> On Dec 24, 2018, at 4:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: NAGDU Digest, Vol 165, Issue 15 (Retina)
> 2. A resource for situation of rejection by a doctor's office
> (Retina)
> 3. Re: Our Access, ESAs and fake service animals (Jenine Stanley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 11:38:13 -0800
> From: Retina <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] NAGDU Digest, Vol 165, Issue 15
> Message-ID: <DD79CA15-C680-4FE8-A329-34D3DB5ACD80 at wolfskills.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am very appreciative for your comments and follow through in your responses. Thank you so much. I?m thinking thoughts like, oh you know, it?s just another chance encounter where we?ve taken crap?as in this: on an internal level, another good opportunity of ?grist for the mill,? to use for the purpose of living more self assured and strongly standing in the truth of being a good person, simply doing what is right, and growing just a little more of a layer of a healthy skin so to speak. That is always a healthy mindset.
>
> But this was also a transation, which is an important example of what we as individuals in this group, deal with. This one, in precisely how it happened, gave my wife and me a very particular impression. The impression was one the we each independently shared with each other when we talked about it after leaving the scene. Here is why this particular transaction got my attention: We each came away with the understanding of what must feel like to be a minority person facing descrimination. This time, we got it on both a psychological and emotional level what it is to be rejected. This is the reason why I took it seriously enough to share the story with you all. This may only have been a case of someone simply, innocently, uninformed. Nonetheless, even that is a core aspect of what makes discrimination ok at all. These things are why I went after it. So again, thank you for your responses, your follow up responses, and also for documents that you have sent. Those will be helpful to include in the letter to the doctor, to give him a sense of credibility in the communication rather than simply a situational or emotional complaint.
>
> Warmly,
> Peter
>
>
>> On Dec 22, 2018, at 4:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>>
>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Refused at medical office (Star Gazer)
>> 2. Re: Refused at medical office (Keri Svendsen)
>> 3. Re: Refused at medical office (Melissa Allman)
>> 4. Re: Refused at medical office (NAGDU President)
>> 5. Re: Refused at medical office (Marianne Denning)
>> 6. Re: Refused at medical office (Jenine Stanley)
>> 7. Re: Refused at medical office (Danielle Sykora)
>> 8. Our Access, ESAs and fake service animals (Sandra Johnson)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:10:51 -0500
>> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>> Message-ID: <02ae01d4992e$9974c8e0$cc5e5aa0$@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Y ou've gotten some good advice. Do write to the doctor if you like him, he probably has no idea what the receptionist said or her attitude, everybody behaves when the boss is around.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Retina via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:33 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Retina <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Will the legally informed of you please advise me?
>>
>> My wife and I just went into an MD Aesthetician?s office to inquire about a procedure. I had Metukah, and she had here service dog Kira. On entering, the receptionist, instead of ?hello,? said to us at the door, ?Sorry, the dog will have to go outside?. Andrea said, ?She?s a service dog; by federal law she can he can be with me.?
>>
>> The receptionist called over another who took over. She asked a few operative questions about whether she had advance paperwork for the procedure. As she did the room temperature dropped. She followed that that Kira could not accompany her into an exam room, ?because they are sterile.? This was curious, because we had recently visited a physician in a clinic up in Portland, where were inquiring as well in case the procedure might be done up there. They had no issue in the lobby, or in the exam room.
>>
>> In this case, when Andrea said in response that there should not be an issue and that by law she could accompany her in an exam room, (even if not specifically inside a surgical suite which might be understandable), frost formed on this receptionist and on the walls.
>>
>> My wife said to me that she was uncomfortable, picked up the paperwork, and we left. Too bad, because this physician was a wonderful man and a great doctor who once saved her life with emergency surgery. We knew that since his career change to skin, he?d probably be one of the best locally.
>>
>> We would like to do him the courtesy of writing an informational letter so that he learns what happened and has a chance to get his staff educated. My wife said that she is considering filing a complaint with DOJ. But before that, we should simply get clear information as it applies to this specific circumstance. Can one of you who is clear on ADA with this specific type situation inform us?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:53:22 -0500
>> From: Keri Svendsen <keribcu at gmail.com>
>> To: Melissa Allman via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>> Message-ID: <719d250f-36d4-bcda-2934-d76e3629085a at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Melissa,
>>
>>
>> Thank you. I know when I had surgery in 2014, and Bliss and I were still
>> a new team still only a year old I was worried how she'd take it. I left
>> her in the waiting room with my boyfriend whho she knew and liked. I
>> also trusted him to sit with her.
>>
>> My nurse prepping me in pre-op came in, and asked, is that your dog and
>> your boyfriend in the waiting room? I replied yes, they are there
>> because I wasn't sure if you guys would allow her here. He then told me
>> of course she is allowed in here, let me go get them..
>>
>> Though we had to put the bars up on the bed because Bliss jumped in the
>> bed with me. I don't think she liked seeing mommy attached to a IV and
>> heart monitor.
>>
>> She was fine though when she could touch my hand through the bars with
>> her nose, and she knew I was okay.
>>
>> They had my girl there when I woke up too.
>>
>> This hospital was extremely fantastic with me.
>>
>> I hope this story gives some of you hhope. Though they don't have to
>> allow your dog in places like pre-op, post-op OR, ICU, CCU etc some
>> hospitals use common sense!
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/2018 6:40 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU wrote:
>>> Hi all. Marion does raise some very important points here. Below is a link to some information on our web site about the rights of guide dog handlers in health care facilities.
>>>
>>> http://www.seeingeye.org/knowledge-center/rights--legal-information/guide-dogs-in-hospitals.html
>>>
>>> One of the items referenced there is a self-evaluation checklist that health care providers can use to see if they are compliant with the ADA. It can be found at:
>>> http://www.afb.org/info/programs-and-services/public-policy-center/civil-rights/advocacy-resources/ada-checklist-health-care-facilities-and-service-providers/12345
>>>
>>> I hope this helps and it is unfortunate that guide dog handlers continue to have these experiences.
>>>
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations
>>> The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ?07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ?07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724,???? Fax:? 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:36 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Cc: cindyray at gmail.com
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>
>>> It is a burden of the people in charge to ask if the dog is a service dog. If your answer is yes, then the next question is what service does the dog perform. I hope you will all read Marion's message as it goes into considerable detail about this issue.
>>> Thank you.
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:32 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>
>>> Service dogs are not allowed in sterile environments; however, they must be truly sterile. Service dogs are not permitted in the OR or typically burn units where mask/gloves/other procedures are necessary. Exam rooms are definitely not sterile environments. Generally, if you can walk in with your normal clothes and shoes, your service dog can accompany you.
>>> I believe Peter uses a guide dog and his wife uses a non-guiding service dog, correct me if I?m wrong. Most service dogs do not wear guide harnesses, and it is unfair to say that a dog must wear a guide harness or discrimination is acceptable.
>>> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 7:19 PM, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Peter:
>>>>
>>>> It is not uncommon to have medical facilities say a dog cannot accompany a patient into a sterile area. This is not discrimination but patient safety. I recently had this situation. My doctor and staff are all aware that I am blind and that Eva is a guide dog. However, the medical proceedure was being done in a sterile area therefore Eva could not accompany me. I was asked if anyone was with me that could watch my dog. When I informed them I was alone several staff members eagerly offered to watch her while I was in the sterile area. Second, the dog is your guide dog, not your wife's. Therefore right of access with a service dog laws would not cover her wanting your dog with her. Finally you did not say your dog was in a standard guide dog harness. If she is not in harness, how is anyone supposed to know she is a trained guide dog. Anyone can buy service dog gear online so the general public and any medical professionals cannot tell the difference. This is why I and many others feel a government issued ID card for professionally trained guide and service dogs is what should be done. I am tired of all the fake service dogs making my life difficult. I know in your case the dog is necessary but it is important for you to be sure she can be identified as a guide dog not a pet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Retina via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:32 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Retina
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> Will the legally informed of you please advise me?
>>>>
>>>> My wife and I just went into an MD Aesthetician?s office to inquire about a procedure. I had Metukah, and she had here service dog Kira. On entering, the receptionist, instead of ?hello,? said to us at the door, ?Sorry, the dog will have to go outside?. Andrea said, ?She?s a service dog; by federal law she can he can be with me.?
>>>>
>>>> The receptionist called over another who took over. She asked a few operative questions about whether she had advance paperwork for the procedure. As she did the room temperature dropped. She followed that that Kira could not accompany her into an exam room, ?because they are sterile.? This was curious, because we had recently visited a physician in a clinic up in Portland, where were inquiring as well in case the procedure might be done up there. They had no issue in the lobby, or in the exam room.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, when Andrea said in response that there should not be an issue and that by law she could accompany her in an exam room, (even if not specifically inside a surgical suite which might be understandable), frost formed on this receptionist and on the walls.
>>>>
>>>> My wife said to me that she was uncomfortable, picked up the paperwork, and we left. Too bad, because this physician was a wonderful man and a great doctor who once saved her life with emergency surgery. We knew that since his career change to skin, he?d probably be one of the best locally.
>>>>
>>>> We would like to do him the courtesy of writing an informational letter so that he learns what happened and has a chance to get his staff educated. My wife said that she is considering filing a complaint with DOJ. But before that, we should simply get clear information as it applies to this specific circumstance. Can one of you who is clear on ADA with this specific type situation inform us?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com
>>
>> --
>> Keri Svendsen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:03:39 -0500
>> From: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>> Message-ID: <68528A425613C841AF38DE1B877F19630220757D2173 at TSEMTEXCH01>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Thanks Keri. I really appreciate this story about your positive experience. Although there are unfortunately public accommodations out there that do not comply with the ADA, there are those that do and it's good to be reminded.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations
>> The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ?07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ?07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724,???? Fax:? 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org??
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri Svendsen via NAGDU
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:53 AM
>> To: Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> Cc: Keri Svendsen
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>
>> Melissa,
>>
>>
>> Thank you. I know when I had surgery in 2014, and Bliss and I were still a new team still only a year old I was worried how she'd take it. I left her in the waiting room with my boyfriend whho she knew and liked. I also trusted him to sit with her.
>>
>> My nurse prepping me in pre-op came in, and asked, is that your dog and your boyfriend in the waiting room? I replied yes, they are there because I wasn't sure if you guys would allow her here. He then told me of course she is allowed in here, let me go get them..
>>
>> Though we had to put the bars up on the bed because Bliss jumped in the bed with me. I don't think she liked seeing mommy attached to a IV and heart monitor.
>>
>> She was fine though when she could touch my hand through the bars with her nose, and she knew I was okay.
>>
>> They had my girl there when I woke up too.
>>
>> This hospital was extremely fantastic with me.
>>
>> I hope this story gives some of you hhope. Though they don't have to allow your dog in places like pre-op, post-op OR, ICU, CCU etc some hospitals use common sense!
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/2018 6:40 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU wrote:
>>> Hi all. Marion does raise some very important points here. Below is a link to some information on our web site about the rights of guide dog handlers in health care facilities.
>>>
>>> http://www.seeingeye.org/knowledge-center/rights--legal-information/gu
>>> ide-dogs-in-hospitals.html
>>>
>>> One of the items referenced there is a self-evaluation checklist that health care providers can use to see if they are compliant with the ADA. It can be found at:
>>> http://www.afb.org/info/programs-and-services/public-policy-center/civ
>>> il-rights/advocacy-resources/ada-checklist-health-care-facilities-and-
>>> service-providers/12345
>>>
>>> I hope this helps and it is unfortunate that guide dog handlers continue to have these experiences.
>>>
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye,
>>> Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ?07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ?07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724,???? Fax:? 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:36 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Cc: cindyray at gmail.com
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>
>>> It is a burden of the people in charge to ask if the dog is a service dog. If your answer is yes, then the next question is what service does the dog perform. I hope you will all read Marion's message as it goes into considerable detail about this issue.
>>> Thank you.
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:32 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>
>>> Service dogs are not allowed in sterile environments; however, they must be truly sterile. Service dogs are not permitted in the OR or typically burn units where mask/gloves/other procedures are necessary. Exam rooms are definitely not sterile environments. Generally, if you can walk in with your normal clothes and shoes, your service dog can accompany you.
>>> I believe Peter uses a guide dog and his wife uses a non-guiding service dog, correct me if I?m wrong. Most service dogs do not wear guide harnesses, and it is unfair to say that a dog must wear a guide harness or discrimination is acceptable.
>>> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 7:19 PM, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Peter:
>>>>
>>>> It is not uncommon to have medical facilities say a dog cannot accompany a patient into a sterile area. This is not discrimination but patient safety. I recently had this situation. My doctor and staff are all aware that I am blind and that Eva is a guide dog. However, the medical proceedure was being done in a sterile area therefore Eva could not accompany me. I was asked if anyone was with me that could watch my dog. When I informed them I was alone several staff members eagerly offered to watch her while I was in the sterile area. Second, the dog is your guide dog, not your wife's. Therefore right of access with a service dog laws would not cover her wanting your dog with her. Finally you did not say your dog was in a standard guide dog harness. If she is not in harness, how is anyone supposed to know she is a trained guide dog. Anyone can buy service dog gear online so the general public and any medical professionals cannot tell the difference. This is why I and many others feel a government issued ID card for professionally trained guide and service dogs is what should be done. I am tired of all the fake service dogs making my life difficult. I know in your case the dog is necessary but it is important for you to be sure she can be identified as a guide dog not a pet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Retina via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:32 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Retina
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> Will the legally informed of you please advise me?
>>>>
>>>> My wife and I just went into an MD Aesthetician?s office to inquire about a procedure. I had Metukah, and she had here service dog Kira. On entering, the receptionist, instead of ?hello,? said to us at the door, ?Sorry, the dog will have to go outside?. Andrea said, ?She?s a service dog; by federal law she can he can be with me.?
>>>>
>>>> The receptionist called over another who took over. She asked a few operative questions about whether she had advance paperwork for the procedure. As she did the room temperature dropped. She followed that that Kira could not accompany her into an exam room, ?because they are sterile.? This was curious, because we had recently visited a physician in a clinic up in Portland, where were inquiring as well in case the procedure might be done up there. They had no issue in the lobby, or in the exam room.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, when Andrea said in response that there should not be an issue and that by law she could accompany her in an exam room, (even if not specifically inside a surgical suite which might be understandable), frost formed on this receptionist and on the walls.
>>>>
>>>> My wife said to me that she was uncomfortable, picked up the paperwork, and we left. Too bad, because this physician was a wonderful man and a great doctor who once saved her life with emergency surgery. We knew that since his career change to skin, he?d probably be one of the best locally.
>>>>
>>>> We would like to do him the courtesy of writing an informational letter so that he learns what happened and has a chance to get his staff educated. My wife said that she is considering filing a complaint with DOJ. But before that, we should simply get clear information as it applies to this specific circumstance. Can one of you who is clear on ADA with this specific type situation inform us?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comc
>>>> ast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.
>>>> com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.co
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>>> .org _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com
>>
>> --
>> Keri Svendsen
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:21:54 -0500
>> From: "NAGDU President" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>> Message-ID: <00ab01d49938$86babbb0$94303310$@verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Danielle,
>>
>> You raise an important topic that many guide dog training programs erroneously assert - that your guide dog must be wearing its harness as a condition of legal access. The ADA and most state laws (I say "most" because I cannot categorically state "all" since I don't know each law) define a service animal as any animal (usually a dog) that has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability or some similar definition. Though some states do require the wearing of specific gear, these laws are unenforceable as they are incongruent with federal law and, if enforced, would violate the ADA's regulations. The essential element of a service dog is its training and that training can never be extracted, though it can be compromised by less than diligent handlers.
>>
>> I have frequently asserted that I sometimes take a walk with my dog out of harness, using my white cane for mobility. If I decide to stop into a store to pick up some water or do a bit of other shopping, my dog is still a service dog and I still have the same rights of access and the same responsibilities. Not all service animals require specific gear to do their work or tasks, as in an dog trained to pick up drop items, open doors, turn on lights, etc. Though our guide dogs do wear such specific gear, many programs train their dogs to leash guide, something that is very simple to teach once the guide work has been established. It is good to have these sorts of discussions, as it makes us better advocates by sharing the knowledge we need to do so.
>>
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>> Visit our website
>> Follow us on Twitter
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds you back.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:32 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Danielle Sykora
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>
>> Service dogs are not allowed in sterile environments; however, they must be truly sterile. Service dogs are not permitted in the OR or typically burn units where mask/gloves/other procedures are necessary. Exam rooms are definitely not sterile environments. Generally, if you can walk in with your normal clothes and shoes, your service dog can accompany you.
>> I believe Peter uses a guide dog and his wife uses a non-guiding service dog, correct me if I?m wrong. Most service dogs do not wear guide harnesses, and it is unfair to say that a dog must wear a guide harness or discrimination is acceptable.
>> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 7:19 PM, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>>
>>> It is not uncommon to have medical facilities say a dog cannot accompany a patient into a sterile area. This is not discrimination but patient safety. I recently had this situation. My doctor and staff are all aware that I am blind and that Eva is a guide dog. However, the medical proceedure was being done in a sterile area therefore Eva could not accompany me. I was asked if anyone was with me that could watch my dog. When I informed them I was alone several staff members eagerly offered to watch her while I was in the sterile area. Second, the dog is your guide dog, not your wife's. Therefore right of access with a service dog laws would not cover her wanting your dog with her. Finally you did not say your dog was in a standard guide dog harness. If she is not in harness, how is anyone supposed to know she is a trained guide dog. Anyone can buy service dog gear online so the general public and any medical professionals cannot tell the difference. This is why I and many others feel a government issued ID card for professionally trained guide and service dogs is what should be done. I am tired of all the fake service dogs making my life difficult. I know in your case the dog is necessary but it is important for you to be sure she can be identified as a guide dog not a pet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Retina via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:32 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Retina
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> Will the legally informed of you please advise me?
>>>
>>> My wife and I just went into an MD Aesthetician?s office to inquire about a procedure. I had Metukah, and she had here service dog Kira. On entering, the receptionist, instead of ?hello,? said to us at the door, ?Sorry, the dog will have to go outside?. Andrea said, ?She?s a service dog; by federal law she can he can be with me.?
>>>
>>> The receptionist called over another who took over. She asked a few operative questions about whether she had advance paperwork for the procedure. As she did the room temperature dropped. She followed that that Kira could not accompany her into an exam room, ?because they are sterile.? This was curious, because we had recently visited a physician in a clinic up in Portland, where were inquiring as well in case the procedure might be done up there. They had no issue in the lobby, or in the exam room.
>>>
>>> In this case, when Andrea said in response that there should not be an issue and that by law she could accompany her in an exam room, (even if not specifically inside a surgical suite which might be understandable), frost formed on this receptionist and on the walls.
>>>
>>> My wife said to me that she was uncomfortable, picked up the paperwork, and we left. Too bad, because this physician was a wonderful man and a great doctor who once saved her life with emergency surgery. We knew that since his career change to skin, he?d probably be one of the best locally.
>>>
>>> We would like to do him the courtesy of writing an informational letter so that he learns what happened and has a chance to get his staff educated. My wife said that she is considering filing a complaint with DOJ. But before that, we should simply get clear information as it applies to this specific circumstance. Can one of you who is clear on ADA with this specific type situation inform us?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:59:30 -0500
>> From: Marianne Denning <marianne at denningweb.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>> Message-ID:
>> <CANZu-JgAzRqaTY7iLp98+SQC6=Gn+EGCJf99n3HXcb=e66Kaxw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> I have used leash guiding on several occasions for many reasons.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 9:24 AM NAGDU President via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Danielle,
>>>
>>> You raise an important topic that many guide dog training programs
>>> erroneously assert - that your guide dog must be wearing its harness as a
>>> condition of legal access. The ADA and most state laws (I say "most"
>>> because I cannot categorically state "all" since I don't know each law)
>>> define a service animal as any animal (usually a dog) that has been
>>> individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a
>>> person with a disability or some similar definition. Though some states do
>>> require the wearing of specific gear, these laws are unenforceable as they
>>> are incongruent with federal law and, if enforced, would violate the ADA's
>>> regulations. The essential element of a service dog is its training and
>>> that training can never be extracted, though it can be compromised by less
>>> than diligent handlers.
>>>
>>> I have frequently asserted that I sometimes take a walk with my
>>> dog out of harness, using my white cane for mobility. If I decide to stop
>>> into a store to pick up some water or do a bit of other shopping, my dog is
>>> still a service dog and I still have the same rights of access and the same
>>> responsibilities. Not all service animals require specific gear to do their
>>> work or tasks, as in an dog trained to pick up drop items, open doors, turn
>>> on lights, etc. Though our guide dogs do wear such specific gear, many
>>> programs train their dogs to leash guide, something that is very simple to
>>> teach once the guide work has been established. It is good to have these
>>> sorts of discussions, as it makes us better advocates by sharing the
>>> knowledge we need to do so.
>>>
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>> Visit our website
>>> Follow us on Twitter
>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind people
>>> and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
>>> you back.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle
>>> Sykora via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:32 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Danielle Sykora
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>
>>> Service dogs are not allowed in sterile environments; however, they must
>>> be truly sterile. Service dogs are not permitted in the OR or typically
>>> burn units where mask/gloves/other procedures are necessary. Exam rooms are
>>> definitely not sterile environments. Generally, if you can walk in with
>>> your normal clothes and shoes, your service dog can accompany you.
>>> I believe Peter uses a guide dog and his wife uses a non-guiding service
>>> dog, correct me if I?m wrong. Most service dogs do not wear guide
>>> harnesses, and it is unfair to say that a dog must wear a guide harness or
>>> discrimination is acceptable.
>>> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 7:19 PM, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Peter:
>>>>
>>>> It is not uncommon to have medical facilities say a dog cannot accompany
>>> a patient into a sterile area. This is not discrimination but patient
>>> safety. I recently had this situation. My doctor and staff are all aware
>>> that I am blind and that Eva is a guide dog. However, the medical
>>> proceedure was being done in a sterile area therefore Eva could not
>>> accompany me. I was asked if anyone was with me that could watch my dog.
>>> When I informed them I was alone several staff members eagerly offered to
>>> watch her while I was in the sterile area. Second, the dog is your guide
>>> dog, not your wife's. Therefore right of access with a service dog laws
>>> would not cover her wanting your dog with her. Finally you did not say
>>> your dog was in a standard guide dog harness. If she is not in harness,
>>> how is anyone supposed to know she is a trained guide dog. Anyone can buy
>>> service dog gear online so the general public and any medical professionals
>>> cannot tell the difference. This is why I and many others feel a
>>> government issued ID card for professionally trained guide and service dogs
>>> is what should be done. I am tired of all the fake service dogs making my
>>> life difficult. I know in your case the dog is necessary but it is
>>> important for you to be sure she can be identified as a guide dog not a pet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Retina via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:32 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Retina
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> Will the legally informed of you please advise me?
>>>>
>>>> My wife and I just went into an MD Aesthetician?s office to inquire
>>> about a procedure. I had Metukah, and she had here service dog Kira. On
>>> entering, the receptionist, instead of ?hello,? said to us at the door,
>>> ?Sorry, the dog will have to go outside?. Andrea said, ?She?s a service
>>> dog; by federal law she can he can be with me.?
>>>>
>>>> The receptionist called over another who took over. She asked a few
>>> operative questions about whether she had advance paperwork for the
>>> procedure. As she did the room temperature dropped. She followed that
>>> that Kira could not accompany her into an exam room, ?because they are
>>> sterile.? This was curious, because we had recently visited a physician in
>>> a clinic up in Portland, where were inquiring as well in case the procedure
>>> might be done up there. They had no issue in the lobby, or in the exam
>>> room.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, when Andrea said in response that there should not be an
>>> issue and that by law she could accompany her in an exam room, (even if not
>>> specifically inside a surgical suite which might be understandable), frost
>>> formed on this receptionist and on the walls.
>>>>
>>>> My wife said to me that she was uncomfortable, picked up the paperwork,
>>> and we left. Too bad, because this physician was a wonderful man and a
>>> great doctor who once saved her life with emergency surgery. We knew that
>>> since his career change to skin, he?d probably be one of the best locally.
>>>>
>>>> We would like to do him the courtesy of writing an informational letter
>>> so that he learns what happened and has a chance to get his staff
>>> educated. My wife said that she is considering filing a complaint with
>>> DOJ. But before that, we should simply get clear information as it applies
>>> to this specific circumstance. Can one of you who is clear on ADA with
>>> this specific type situation inform us?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningweb.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>> (513) 607-6053
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 10:14:22 -0500
>> From: Jenine Stanley <jeninems at icloud.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>> Message-ID: <D1C75B0D-2A3E-4718-B226-190AC784F522 at icloud.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Marion is right of course. In fact, a sort of reverse discrimination is happening more and more. At least once a week I hear stories or receive calls about people with guide dogs who have been refused access or challenged severely because their dogs are not ?wearing vests or capes that say SERVICE DOG. No, the harness is not enough for some of these people and I would love to know where they are getting this little bit of misinformation. It?s too similar to be just one or two people in one or two locations.
>>
>> Conspiracy theorist? Who, me?
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2018, at 9:21 AM, NAGDU President via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Danielle,
>>>
>>> You raise an important topic that many guide dog training programs erroneously assert - that your guide dog must be wearing its harness as a condition of legal access. The ADA and most state laws (I say "most" because I cannot categorically state "all" since I don't know each law) define a service animal as any animal (usually a dog) that has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability or some similar definition. Though some states do require the wearing of specific gear, these laws are unenforceable as they are incongruent with federal law and, if enforced, would violate the ADA's regulations. The essential element of a service dog is its training and that training can never be extracted, though it can be compromised by less than diligent handlers.
>>>
>>> I have frequently asserted that I sometimes take a walk with my dog out of harness, using my white cane for mobility. If I decide to stop into a store to pick up some water or do a bit of other shopping, my dog is still a service dog and I still have the same rights of access and the same responsibilities. Not all service animals require specific gear to do their work or tasks, as in an dog trained to pick up drop items, open doors, turn on lights, etc. Though our guide dogs do wear such specific gear, many programs train their dogs to leash guide, something that is very simple to teach once the guide work has been established. It is good to have these sorts of discussions, as it makes us better advocates by sharing the knowledge we need to do so.
>>>
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>> Visit our website
>>> Follow us on Twitter
>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds you back.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:32 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Danielle Sykora
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>
>>> Service dogs are not allowed in sterile environments; however, they must be truly sterile. Service dogs are not permitted in the OR or typically burn units where mask/gloves/other procedures are necessary. Exam rooms are definitely not sterile environments. Generally, if you can walk in with your normal clothes and shoes, your service dog can accompany you.
>>> I believe Peter uses a guide dog and his wife uses a non-guiding service dog, correct me if I?m wrong. Most service dogs do not wear guide harnesses, and it is unfair to say that a dog must wear a guide harness or discrimination is acceptable.
>>> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 7:19 PM, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Peter:
>>>>
>>>> It is not uncommon to have medical facilities say a dog cannot accompany a patient into a sterile area. This is not discrimination but patient safety. I recently had this situation. My doctor and staff are all aware that I am blind and that Eva is a guide dog. However, the medical proceedure was being done in a sterile area therefore Eva could not accompany me. I was asked if anyone was with me that could watch my dog. When I informed them I was alone several staff members eagerly offered to watch her while I was in the sterile area. Second, the dog is your guide dog, not your wife's. Therefore right of access with a service dog laws would not cover her wanting your dog with her. Finally you did not say your dog was in a standard guide dog harness. If she is not in harness, how is anyone supposed to know she is a trained guide dog. Anyone can buy service dog gear online so the general public and any medical professionals cannot tell the difference. This is why I and many others feel a government issued ID card for professionally trained guide and service dogs is what should be done. I am tired of all the fake service dogs making my life difficult. I know in your case the dog is necessary but it is important for you to be sure she can be identified as a guide dog not a pet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Retina via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:32 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Retina
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> Will the legally informed of you please advise me?
>>>>
>>>> My wife and I just went into an MD Aesthetician?s office to inquire about a procedure. I had Metukah, and she had here service dog Kira. On entering, the receptionist, instead of ?hello,? said to us at the door, ?Sorry, the dog will have to go outside?. Andrea said, ?She?s a service dog; by federal law she can he can be with me.?
>>>>
>>>> The receptionist called over another who took over. She asked a few operative questions about whether she had advance paperwork for the procedure. As she did the room temperature dropped. She followed that that Kira could not accompany her into an exam room, ?because they are sterile.? This was curious, because we had recently visited a physician in a clinic up in Portland, where were inquiring as well in case the procedure might be done up there. They had no issue in the lobby, or in the exam room.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, when Andrea said in response that there should not be an issue and that by law she could accompany her in an exam room, (even if not specifically inside a surgical suite which might be understandable), frost formed on this receptionist and on the walls.
>>>>
>>>> My wife said to me that she was uncomfortable, picked up the paperwork, and we left. Too bad, because this physician was a wonderful man and a great doctor who once saved her life with emergency surgery. We knew that since his career change to skin, he?d probably be one of the best locally.
>>>>
>>>> We would like to do him the courtesy of writing an informational letter so that he learns what happened and has a chance to get his staff educated. My wife said that she is considering filing a complaint with DOJ. But before that, we should simply get clear information as it applies to this specific circumstance. Can one of you who is clear on ADA with this specific type situation inform us?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40icloud.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 10:47:05 -0500
>> From: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>> Message-ID: <3D5F445E-4940-486B-9C35-EA787F435D2C at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> I in no way was implying that harnesses are required for legal access. My dogs in fact were both trained to leash guide, and while not a replacement for in harness guiding, I have tried to explain to many guide dog handlers on many occasions that my dog is just as much a service dog when leash guiding as when they are in harness. I also have friends who use service dogs that do not guide and therefore do not wear guide harnesses. I think it is very unfortunate when anyone spreads the false notion that real service dogs must wear guide harnesses. It is the training that matters, as well as a clearly responsible handler, not the gear.
>>
>>
>> Danielle
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Marion is right of course. In fact, a sort of reverse discrimination is happening more and more. At least once a week I hear stories or receive calls about people with guide dogs who have been refused access or challenged severely because their dogs are not ?wearing vests or capes that say SERVICE DOG. No, the harness is not enough for some of these people and I would love to know where they are getting this little bit of misinformation. It?s too similar to be just one or two people in one or two locations.
>>>
>>> Conspiracy theorist? Who, me?
>>>
>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, at 9:21 AM, NAGDU President via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Danielle,
>>>>
>>>> You raise an important topic that many guide dog training programs erroneously assert - that your guide dog must be wearing its harness as a condition of legal access. The ADA and most state laws (I say "most" because I cannot categorically state "all" since I don't know each law) define a service animal as any animal (usually a dog) that has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability or some similar definition. Though some states do require the wearing of specific gear, these laws are unenforceable as they are incongruent with federal law and, if enforced, would violate the ADA's regulations. The essential element of a service dog is its training and that training can never be extracted, though it can be compromised by less than diligent handlers.
>>>>
>>>> I have frequently asserted that I sometimes take a walk with my dog out of harness, using my white cane for mobility. If I decide to stop into a store to pick up some water or do a bit of other shopping, my dog is still a service dog and I still have the same rights of access and the same responsibilities. Not all service animals require specific gear to do their work or tasks, as in an dog trained to pick up drop items, open doors, turn on lights, etc. Though our guide dogs do wear such specific gear, many programs train their dogs to leash guide, something that is very simple to teach once the guide work has been established. It is good to have these sorts of discussions, as it makes us better advocates by sharing the knowledge we need to do so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> (813) 626-2789
>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>> Visit our website
>>>> Follow us on Twitter
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds you back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:32 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Danielle Sykora
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>>
>>>> Service dogs are not allowed in sterile environments; however, they must be truly sterile. Service dogs are not permitted in the OR or typically burn units where mask/gloves/other procedures are necessary. Exam rooms are definitely not sterile environments. Generally, if you can walk in with your normal clothes and shoes, your service dog can accompany you.
>>>> I believe Peter uses a guide dog and his wife uses a non-guiding service dog, correct me if I?m wrong. Most service dogs do not wear guide harnesses, and it is unfair to say that a dog must wear a guide harness or discrimination is acceptable.
>>>> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 7:19 PM, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not uncommon to have medical facilities say a dog cannot accompany a patient into a sterile area. This is not discrimination but patient safety. I recently had this situation. My doctor and staff are all aware that I am blind and that Eva is a guide dog. However, the medical proceedure was being done in a sterile area therefore Eva could not accompany me. I was asked if anyone was with me that could watch my dog. When I informed them I was alone several staff members eagerly offered to watch her while I was in the sterile area. Second, the dog is your guide dog, not your wife's. Therefore right of access with a service dog laws would not cover her wanting your dog with her. Finally you did not say your dog was in a standard guide dog harness. If she is not in harness, how is anyone supposed to know she is a trained guide dog. Anyone can buy service dog gear online so the general public and any medical professionals cannot tell the difference. This is why I and many others feel a government issued ID card for professionally trained guide and service dogs is what should be done. I am tired of all the fake service dogs making my life difficult. I know in your case the dog is necessary but it is important for you to be sure she can be identified as a guide dog not a pet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Retina via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:32 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: Retina
>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Refused at medical office
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Will the legally informed of you please advise me?
>>>>>
>>>>> My wife and I just went into an MD Aesthetician?s office to inquire about a procedure. I had Metukah, and she had here service dog Kira. On entering, the receptionist, instead of ?hello,? said to us at the door, ?Sorry, the dog will have to go outside?. Andrea said, ?She?s a service dog; by federal law she can he can be with me.?
>>>>>
>>>>> The receptionist called over another who took over. She asked a few operative questions about whether she had advance paperwork for the procedure. As she did the room temperature dropped. She followed that that Kira could not accompany her into an exam room, ?because they are sterile.? This was curious, because we had recently visited a physician in a clinic up in Portland, where were inquiring as well in case the procedure might be done up there. They had no issue in the lobby, or in the exam room.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case, when Andrea said in response that there should not be an issue and that by law she could accompany her in an exam room, (even if not specifically inside a surgical suite which might be understandable), frost formed on this receptionist and on the walls.
>>>>>
>>>>> My wife said to me that she was uncomfortable, picked up the paperwork, and we left. Too bad, because this physician was a wonderful man and a great doctor who once saved her life with emergency surgery. We knew that since his career change to skin, he?d probably be one of the best locally.
>>>>>
>>>>> We would like to do him the courtesy of writing an informational letter so that he learns what happened and has a chance to get his staff educated. My wife said that she is considering filing a complaint with DOJ. But before that, we should simply get clear information as it applies to this specific circumstance. Can one of you who is clear on ADA with this specific type situation inform us?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40icloud.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 14:23:28 -0500
>> From: "Sandra Johnson" <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
>> To: <NAGDU at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Our Access, ESAs and fake service animals
>> Message-ID: <F14CE278DE2943C7AA9E64F0DCFCFCB2 at JOHNSON>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Good Afternoon:
>>
>> Since we often discuss our access and the rapidly growing number of so called emotional support animals and fake service dogs I thought I would tell you of a conversation I just had with a bus driver.
>>
>> The driver told me about a woman who often rides with him along with her so called emotional support cat. He said his company supervisor told the drivers it is becoming very confusing as to what is a legitimate service animal and what is not. With this company Eva is the only qualified working dog registered to ride with a person with a disability. I know she is the only guide dog in my area. Since they do not have much experience with service animals it is more confusing to them. I informed him that according to the most recent definition from the DOJ, a service or guide animal is a dog, not cats or anything else. It is people like this crazy nut of a woman making it bad for all of us. I know she can have her emotional support cat in public housing but she shouldn?t have it on public transportation or in public accommodations such as stores, banks and medical buildings. It is no wonder people are so confused about the laws. The driver said he and his fellow drivers are afraid to refuse to transport her because she threatens to sue them for discrimination if they do not let her ride with her cat.
>>
>> It is clear that something must be done to stop all this ridiculous nonsense of ESAs and FAKE SERVICE DOGS, IT MUST STOP NOW!!!!! There should be very strong laws and those laws should be enforced so our right to access with our guide dogs is not compromised by all the ESA?s and FAKES!!!
>>
>> Sandra and the golden Eva, who is a REAL GUIDE DOG, NOT A FAKE!
>> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 165, Issue 15
>> **************************************
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 11:56:40 -0800
> From: Retina <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] A resource for situation of rejection by a doctor's
> office
> Message-ID: <FEAE0D4F-EC42-41B8-858D-899FC4085C7A at wolfskills.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I had just sent my last message to you all, and then found that my wife has come across an excellent resource. I will share it with you. It is from Disability Rights of North Carolina. Although from a state, it is about (federal) ADA for doctors? offices, so it ought to apply to all states. This is the first thing of it?s kind that I have found that was not only strong and clear, but also very carefully substantiated.
>
> At the end of the document, it lists specific court decisions, which is extremely helpful and clear as a demonstrating explanation of rules. And then, it contains a sample letter, which if one of us is faced again with this situation, can be used. The letter also contains footnotes, citing specific grounding sources for important points in this letter.
>
> Here is the link to the PDF document:
>
>> https://www.disabilityrightsnc.org/sites/default/files/Service Animal-MedicalSettings-Self-Advocacy Packet DRNC.pdf <https://www.disabilityrightsnc.org/sites/default/files/Service%20Animal-MedicalSettings-Self-Advocacy%20Packet%20DRNC.pdf>
>
> And here it is, in PDF form:
>
>
> Best,
> Peter
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 20:30:59 -0500
> From: Jenine Stanley <jeninems at icloud.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Our Access, ESAs and fake service animals
> Message-ID: <75BC14C1-DFE9-4846-95C1-678F57396A8D at icloud.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Actually, under the transportation provisions, and I will get a citation if wanted, as I?m sure I have one somewhere, of the ADA, FTA covered properties, such as public transit systems, *may* allow a variety of species to be used as service animals for the purposes of transport. This reg/set of regs is similar to the ACAA and is above and beyond the Title III Public Accommodations provisions and is something that transit properties *may* do but many choose to not honor and that?s fine though I suppose technically someone could say that the *may* portion is least restrictive and hence must be followed. Sorry for the lack of citation on this holiday weekend. It?s a frustrating loophole though.
>
>> On Dec 22, 2018, at 4:25 PM, NAGDU President via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Sandra,
>>
>> I would get in touch with the transportation authority's ADA officer and share the regulations with that person, asking them to work with you to help stop the abuses. Perhaps you can share that, should they refuse to carry this woman's emotional support cat and she files a complaint, they will advise her a cat is not a service animal. You may also want to share the NAGDU hotline number (888-624-3841) and/ or the DOJ's ADA hotline number (800-514-0301) and have them ask the question about service cats. Our transportation authority has a hands-off policy for drivers, allowing them to only ask if the dog is a service dog; however, I know they would not allow a cat or any other animal unless it were caged.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>> Visit our website
>> Follow us on Twitter
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds you back.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Johnson via NAGDU
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 2:23 PM
>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Sandra Johnson
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Our Access, ESAs and fake service animals
>>
>> Good Afternoon:
>>
>> Since we often discuss our access and the rapidly growing number of so called emotional support animals and fake service dogs I thought I would tell you of a conversation I just had with a bus driver.
>>
>> The driver told me about a woman who often rides with him along with her so called emotional support cat. He said his company supervisor told the drivers it is becoming very confusing as to what is a legitimate service animal and what is not. With this company Eva is the only qualified working dog registered to ride with a person with a disability. I know she is the only guide dog in my area. Since they do not have much experience with service animals it is more confusing to them. I informed him that according to the most recent definition from the DOJ, a service or guide animal is a dog, not cats or anything else. It is people like this crazy nut of a woman making it bad for all of us. I know she can have her emotional support cat in public housing but she shouldn?t have it on public transportation or in public accommodations such as stores, banks and medical buildings. It is no wonder people are so confused about the laws. The driver said he and his fellow drivers are afraid to refuse to transport her because she threatens to sue them for discrimination if they do not let her ride with her cat.
>>
>> It is clear that something must be done to stop all this ridiculous nonsense of ESAs and FAKE SERVICE DOGS, IT MUST STOP NOW!!!!! There should be very strong laws and those laws should be enforced so our right to access with our guide dogs is not compromised by all the ESA?s and FAKES!!!
>>
>> Sandra and the golden Eva, who is a REAL GUIDE DOG, NOT A FAKE!
>> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40icloud.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 165, Issue 17
> **************************************
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