[NAGDU] Flying, and showing affection issues

Peter Wolf pwolf1 at wolfskills.com
Tue May 1 08:09:03 UTC 2018


We have 7 years experience so far with air and train long distance travel.  Between the experience and our vet conversations, we are most tuned at having a minimum of six hours of no food or water prior to the flight.  Eight is better.  If it means 10 or 12 hours even, because we have to get to bed and then the additional transition time before the flight leaves, we even go that length.  Dogs, as natural feast or famine creatures, can in the wild, go several days without eating.  At home, we do feed morning and night, and we leave a ‘grazing” kibble bowl out 24/7.   They self-regulate on a normal daily basis with perfect weight.  I recognize that our feeding schedule is entirely of our own human making.  …And we have formed this habit in the girls’ normal breakfast and dinner expectations.  

We hydrate immediately on landing, right in the airport.  Water is fine, but to encourage a solid drink on landing, we crush up a little freeze dried food like Primal Nuggets or another healthy brand into the water.  For this, we keep the food and silicone collapsible bowls in our carry on.  They drink it all up immediately.  If it has been long, we might even make that broth richer to give them half a meal worth of nutrients to go on, but not be too rich to overload them.   Half to two thirds through a long flight, if they seem dehydrated, we’ll give a tiny bit of water from a small children’s bulb syringe.  It’s no appreciable volume, but it does hydrate.  And not enough to stimulate urination processes.  We’re talking a couple of teaspoons once or twice in flight.  It helps.  Think of how much (we) drink while flying just from respiratory water loss in dry air.  


On the public show of affection issue, I recognize this can be personal in either direction to any individual, and I echo the sentiments that the best thing we can do is share our own experience, not tell others what to do.  In that spirit:

I happen to be split in two about this subject, and I weigh each side according to need.  On one hand, I am militant about my public conduct with Metukah, that it be professional.  For one, I want us to perform well.  For another,  because of others’ misbehavior and ethics with fake or minimally trained dogs.  It’s about being a good ambassador.  I want solid legs to stand on when having to stand for us and educate a business owner such as hotel, restaurant, or store.  We’ve encountered difficulty before from owners or public individuals who didn’t know about working dogs, or just were being jerks.  Our training is impeccable and we walk it.   


At the same time, on the other side of this, our schooling, method (and personal orientation) was a training approach of bonding, respect and love.  Whatever other methods are out there, we hold it that we all live together, and are a family.  I trained my dog in a way that she thinks that tasking with me is the coolest thing on earth that she could ever want to do.  Our two dogs both work for real reasons for each of us.  And, they are beloved because we designed that specifically as an approach as our plan in choosing, raising and putting ourselves and them through team training because it is who we are.  So when Metukah does well, she gets full on love, not just a quick pat unless we have to be “tight”.  That is, if the environment is amenable.  The affection is obvious…how I feel about her shows.  If not, our bond is noticed in frequent comments from others about how she holds me in a constant gaze that amazes them. 

About balance, if I detect that we must act more conservatively in an environment, then we move like a military operation, and praise is only a whisper if that.  But then I have no qualms about directing Metukah to set her head on my lap at, say, a plane terminal for praise, after we have just demonstrated precision and function getting there and navigating the space and tasks there.   Everyone has already witnessed it.  I know this, because in my bizarre kaleidoscopic, telescopic, twisted crazy vibrating vision, I’ve caught them (or heard them) watching.  The point here is that no matter what I ask her to do, to others it is an obvious command.  It’s about underlying context.  

Heck we may even be bouncing around in the airport shuttle bus with a ton of people and luggage.  It happens just too often that someone will step on my dog’s foot… and we all know what *that* can sound like!  So I will quietly say the command, “Saa-a-a-dle Up!”…  Her almost three foot long body will levitate up into space, curl and land in a tight donut on my lap, harness and all.  Or, I’ll lift two hands upward, facing each other wide as if to clap, and silently nod once.  And she will do the same thing.  It is coordinated, crisp, and clear that I have given her a command.  We’re making room.  No one has a problem with that.  It is clear that whatever it is that we do as a team, a working team it is.  

I have learned that these are appropriate times to have my cane out.  It communicates our business together nonverbally as much as I actually use it in crowds.  It is obvious that this person has some sort of blindness.  The point is, no matter what we do, we are authentic to ourselves while being professional in function and in appearance to others.  When we are, we are fine.  And for those who make it their business, it’s almost always amazement and complements on dog behavior.  For the occasional negative ones, it’s not their business! 

Best wishes, hope these comments help.

-Peter




On Apr 30, 2018, at 5:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. School logos (Tracy Carcione)
>   2. Re: School logos (Tara Briggs)
>   3. Re: School logos (Tracy Carcione)
>   4. Re: School logos (Sandra Johnson)
>   5. Emotions associated with handling was Re:  School logos (Miranda)
>   6. Air Travel Feeding Question (David)
>   7. Re: Air Travel Feeding Question (Michael Hingson)
>   8. Re: Air Travel Feeding Question (alysha.jeans at gmail.com)
>   9. Re: Air Travel Feeding Question (The Pawpower Pack)
>  10. Re: Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
>      (Cindy Ray)
>  11. Re: Air Travel Feeding Question (Cindy Ray)
>  12. Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for all
>      service animals (Ginger Kutsch)
>  13. Re: Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for
>      all service animals (Milissa Garside)
>  14. Re: Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for
>      all service animals (Cindy Ray)
>  15. Re: Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
>      (Sandra Johnson)
>  16. Re: Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for
>      all service animals (Milissa Garside)
>  17. Re: Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
>      (Becky Frankeberger)
>  18. KRON Clip About Comfort Pets. (David)
>  19. Re: KRON Clip About Comfort Pets - Reply (David)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:03:47 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] School logos
> Message-ID: <007401d3dfcb$46a54df0$d3efe9d0$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part of my
> decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I felt it was
> symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at the time that the
> GEB logo was similar.
> 
> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted to
> show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big
> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and hugging
> your dog doesn't show that.
> 
> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions about
> corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or better
> corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's essential the
> schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as serious a job as a
> police dog, and get away from the "companion in my lonely darkness" crap.
> 
> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or brainstorm
> some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working partnership, then share
> it with the schools?
> 
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:32:52 -0600
> From: Tara Briggs <thflute at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] School logos
> Message-ID: <A47329ED-CF03-4BE4-83AF-D930591A052A at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
> 
> Well said Tracy! I was just curious, do any of you know what the locals are for the different schools? Thanks for any information!
> Tara
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part of my
>> decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I felt it was
>> symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at the time that the
>> GEB logo was similar.
>> 
>> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted to
>> show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big
>> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and hugging
>> your dog doesn't show that.
>> 
>> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions about
>> corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or better
>> corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's essential the
>> schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as serious a job as a
>> police dog, and get away from the "companion in my lonely darkness" crap.
>> 
>> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or brainstorm
>> some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working partnership, then share
>> it with the schools?
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/thflute%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:26:37 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] School logos
> Message-ID: <008701d3dfd6$d8b48160$8a1d8420$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> TSE's logo is a shepherd in harness next to a person with an arm holding the
> harness handle.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:33 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Tara Briggs
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] School logos
> 
> Well said Tracy! I was just curious, do any of you know what the locals are
> for the different schools? Thanks for any information!
> Tara
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part of my
>> decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I felt it was
>> symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at the time that
> the
>> GEB logo was similar.
>> 
>> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted to
>> show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big
>> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and
> hugging
>> your dog doesn't show that.
>> 
>> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions about
>> corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or better
>> corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's essential
> the
>> schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as serious a job as a
>> police dog, and get away from the "companion in my lonely darkness" crap.
>> 
>> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or
> brainstorm
>> some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working partnership, then
> share
>> it with the schools?
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:45:42 -0400
> From: "Sandra Johnson" <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] School logos
> Message-ID: <33891BFCAF6B447BA0B953CC85FC9D65 at JOHNSON>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The Pilot Dog logo is also a person with a dog in harness.  The person and 
> dog llook as if they are walking.  That is a true representation of the 
> relationship we have with our guide dogs.  Hugs are fine but not as a school 
> logo.
> 
> Sandra and Eva
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 12:26 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] School logos
> 
> TSE's is a shepherd in harness next to a person with an arm holding the
> harness handle.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:33 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Tara Briggs
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] School logos
> 
> Well said Tracy! I was just curious, do any of you know what the locals are
> for the different schools? Thanks for any information!
> Tara
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 9:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part of my
>> decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I felt it was
>> symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at the time that
> the
>> GEB logo was similar.
>> 
>> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted to
>> show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big
>> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and
> hugging
>> your dog doesn't show that.
>> 
>> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions about
>> corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or better
>> corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's essential
> the
>> schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as serious a job as a
>> police dog, and get away from the "companion in my lonely darkness" crap.
>> 
>> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or
> brainstorm
>> some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working partnership, then
> share
>> it with the schools?
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/thflute%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:57:48 -0400
> From: Miranda <knownoflove at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re:  School
> 	logos
> Message-ID: <4C91B3B2-5927-454A-B66C-989F6546FB0C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi Tracy and all,
> While I completely agree with you that the job of a dog guide is a very serious one, and all parties involved should recognize and support this assertion, I do think we need to be careful in labeling others? emotions as ?crap?. While I am not one who has experienced loneliness and darkness as a cane traveler, I imagine there are those who may have experienced darkness, loneliness, isolation, and the like prior to receiving a guide. By labeling these emotions, we may be minimizing another?s experience.
> I only say this as food for thought, and not to start any heated debates.
> 
> Best wishes, Miranda
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part of my
>> decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I felt it was
>> symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at the time that the
>> GEB logo was similar.
>> 
>> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted to
>> show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big
>> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and hugging
>> your dog doesn't show that.
>> 
>> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions about
>> corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or better
>> corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's essential the
>> schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as serious a job as a
>> police dog, and get away from the "companion in my lonely darkness" crap.
>> 
>> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or brainstorm
>> some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working partnership, then share
>> it with the schools?
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/knownoflove%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:58:18 -0400
> From: David <david at bakerinet.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> Message-ID: <19b583e9-0640-0270-6c3f-2a9cb3a830e7 at bakerinet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> For those who travel by air, if you have an early morning flight, do you 
> restrict food the night before and limit water?? How about food and 
> water the following morning for a flight boarding at 6:30 a.m. and 
> arriving at destination around 10 a.m.?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
> 
> -- 
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com*
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:12:31 -0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> Message-ID: <00bb01d3dfe5$a42bb8f0$ec832ad0$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
> 
> It depends on your dog. When I first received Alamo two months ago I restricted his food and water the night before flying home. I did not feed or water him the morning before I left.
> 
> Two days later I flew mid-day. The night before I fed him 3/4 what I usually would feed him. I allowed him to drink some water, but made sure he did not tank up. The next morning I did not feed him. The night before my morning return flight I fed him this time the full amount, but I did not feed him the morning we returned home.
> 
> A week later I flew again on an early morning flight. By now I felt I knew enough about him that I fed him the full amount the night before, but offered less water. The morning we flew I also fed him the full amount, but with less water. He did fine.
> 
> It's all about getting our dogs used to a schedule and understanding their relieving habits. 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> Michael Hingson
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 10:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: David <david at bakerinet.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> 
> For those who travel by air, if you have an early morning flight, do you restrict food the night before and limit water?  How about food and water the following morning for a flight boarding at 6:30 a.m. and arriving at destination around 10 a.m.?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
> 
> --
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com*
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:18:43 -0400
> From: <alysha.jeans at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> Message-ID: <000201d3dfe6$8274c840$875e58c0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi David,
> I don't restrict food and water the night before flying at all. For an early morning flight of a reasonable length like you describe, I would restrict water but not food that morning. I would probably put a little water in to moisten his food but nothing else. This depends a lot on your dog's park schedule though. Xylon generally poops first thing in the morning after eating and not again until we get home from work, so feeding him in the morning wouldn't risk an accident on a flight landing at 10 AM. Safe travels!
> 
> Alysha
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 1:58 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: David <david at bakerinet.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> 
> For those who travel by air, if you have an early morning flight, do you restrict food the night before and limit water?  How about food and water the following morning for a flight boarding at 6:30 a.m. and arriving at destination around 10 a.m.?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
> 
> --
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com*
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/alysha.jeans%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:02:03 -0500
> From: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> Message-ID: <FD3AEEE3-9BD5-46CE-9C09-B47158CC96E9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi,
> Actually I do not. I usually feed her right before I leave the house, so about an hour and a half before my flight, and she is fine. But she will also vomit if she does not eat, so in my case it's better to give her food. I should also add she has no relieving issues . Good luck!
> 
> 
> Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
> Laveau, Soleil, Rowan pawpower4me at gmail.com  
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 12:58 PM, David via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> For those who travel by air, if you have an early morning flight, do you restrict food the night before and limit water?  How about food and water the following morning for a flight boarding at 6:30 a.m. and arriving at destination around 10 a.m.?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>> 
>> -- 
>> *David in Clearwater, FL*
>> *david at bakerinet.com*
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pawpower4me%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 15:20:23 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School
> 	logos
> Message-ID: <00d201d3dff7$81b204c0$85160e40$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
> 
> I don't think Tracy was minimizing the emotions of the other so much, but you have to realize that when a logo like that is out there in the public eye, that is immediately what they think, too. They think, "How wonderful that this person now has "eyes" and that must alleviate the loneiness and cut back on the dark. 
> That isn't the same as minimizing someone's emotions, though I can see where someone might feel that way if he/she is going through a lonely dark time. Still, that does perk up the pity sense in people. Of course it also sells and gets donations. But I think TSE and Pilot's logos as described are more realistic. I would hope that no one here has taken offense to what Tracy has said, but I've seen people fawn over their dogs in some meetings; you see logos like this; some of us do overdo that sort of thing publicly. I think we do have to remember, as does the schools, what they really want to convey.
> Hope that made some sense. I would agree though that we don't want to turn this into a red hot topic. 
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Miranda via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Miranda <knownoflove at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
> 
> Hi Tracy and all,
> While I completely agree with you that the job of a dog guide is a very serious one, and all parties involved should recognize and support this assertion, I do think we need to be careful in labeling others? emotions as ?crap?. While I am not one who has experienced loneliness and darkness as a cane traveler, I imagine there are those who may have experienced darkness, loneliness, isolation, and the like prior to receiving a guide. By labeling these emotions, we may be minimizing another?s experience.
> I only say this as food for thought, and not to start any heated debates.
> 
> Best wishes, Miranda
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part 
>> of my decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I 
>> felt it was symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at 
>> the time that the GEB logo was similar.
>> 
>> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted 
>> to show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big 
>> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and 
>> hugging your dog doesn't show that.
>> 
>> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions 
>> about corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or 
>> better corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's 
>> essential the schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as 
>> serious a job as a police dog, and get away from the "companion in my lonely darkness" crap.
>> 
>> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or 
>> brainstorm some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working 
>> partnership, then share it with the schools?
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/knownoflove%40gmail
>> .com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 15:21:29 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> Message-ID: <00d301d3dff7$a8afdc50$fa0f94f0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
> 
> I think when I was using Fisher I gave a dog treat or so and some water if I was doing such a flight as 6:30 a.m.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 12:58 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: David <david at bakerinet.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Air Travel Feeding Question
> 
> For those who travel by air, if you have an early morning flight, do you restrict food the night before and limit water?  How about food and water the following morning for a flight boarding at 6:30 a.m. and arriving at destination around 10 a.m.?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
> 
> --
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com*
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:45:02 -0400
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <Ginger at ky2d.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up
> 	for all service animals
> Message-ID: <00ad01d3dffa$f2c39b80$d84ad280$@ky2d.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for all service animals
> 
> April 25, 2018
> 
> http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/guiding-eyes-dog-attacked-twice-owne
> r-speaking-up-for-all-service-animals/1139855296
> 
> 
> 
> Guiding Eyes dog, "Caffrey," his job is to be part of a team with his owner
> Tonya Corujo. Together, they go to a variety of places, run errands and
> maybe even take a trip.
> 
> 
> 
> In the past few months, Caffrey was attacked by the same dog twice in and
> around Corujo's apartment building. Though puncture wounds to Caffrey's ears
> have since healed -- Corujo says he still gets anxious.
> 
> 
> 
> Inside their home, Corujo says Caffrey is fine, but leaving the apartment to
> work is a challenge since the attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> "When he hears or sees a dog, he gets a bit anxious and he wants to cower
> behind me because he just isn't sure what the dog is going to do," Corujo
> said. "Which is not fair to me because he's been professionally trained and
> he shouldn't be afraid in his own environment."
> 
> Guiding Eyes dogs, takes two years and can cost about $50,000.
> 
> 
> 
> Guiding Eyes prepares each dog to handle everyday situations and adapt
> easily no matter where their travels make take them.
> 
> 
> 
> When Corujo and Caffrey are out, they take initiative when there is a person
> with another dog approaching them. Corujo puts Caffrey in a "sit" position
> and then lets the other person and dog pass by.
> 
> 
> 
> If someone is approaching her with a young child, Corujo says she will use
> it as a teaching opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> "I start explaining that, you know, he is a guy dog and this is what he does
> for me and this is how he protects me. Once I do that, I might let them pet
> him after that," Corujo said.
> 
> 
> 
> This service dog etiquette is common, according to Ben Cawley, director of
> admissions for Guiding Eyes for the Blind.
> 
> 
> 
> "If you're not sure what to do, you can approach and say, 'hi', but that can
> be distracting to the team," Cawley explained. "Ask the handler if the dog
> can say, "hello," and take a break from work. They have a lot of
> responsibility when they're out. They worked hard and trained to be in
> public spaces interacting with the public."
> 
> 
> 
> Cawley says Guiding Eyes graduates like Caffrey are ambassadors for the
> program, so it's crucial for everyone to understand their role and properly
> approach them when they're working.
> 
> 
> 
> Guiding Eyes is working with Caffrey to help him shake anxiety issues from
> the attacks. 
> 
> 
> 
> "Dog attacks can cause injury but also mental stress," Cawley shared. "We
> will work on getting the dog comfortable with guide work and help the dog
> find work positive again. Sometimes we retire teams because a guide dog is
> stressed out and the handler can be stressed as well."
> 
> 
> 
> Every day, Corujo says she is doing her part to make Caffrey's work life
> positive again.
> 
> 
> 
> As the team continues to work together, Corujo says she hopes her message
> will not only help other service dogs stay safe, but encourage all pet
> owners to be more responsible.
> 
> 
> 
> Since the second attack, the a Syracuse Police Dog Control Officer handling
> the case tells us the dog that attacked Caffrey has been removed from the
> building and the owner could face a fine after being ticketed.
> 
> 
> 
> Welcoming a New Guide Dog Team to Your Community:
> 
> -Don't distract a working dog.
> 
> -Don't give the dog table food.
> 
> -Keep your pet on his leash. 
> 
> -Always ask for permission before interacting with the dog
> 
> -Help spot service dog fraud. If you encounter a service dog team that you
> believe to be fraudulent, alerting the handler, management or law
> enforcement can make a big difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:53:44 -0400
> From: Milissa Garside <mgarside2 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking
> 	up for all service animals
> Message-ID: <FCDF0BC5-64A2-46E4-AAD5-C363FF8304CC at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
> 
> I thought this was pretty good minus the fact that it said her guide dog protects her. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:45 PM, Ginger Kutsch via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for all service animals
>> 
>> April 25, 2018
>> 
>> http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/guiding-eyes-dog-attacked-twice-owne
>> r-speaking-up-for-all-service-animals/1139855296
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes dog, "Caffrey," his job is to be part of a team with his owner
>> Tonya Corujo. Together, they go to a variety of places, run errands and
>> maybe even take a trip.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In the past few months, Caffrey was attacked by the same dog twice in and
>> around Corujo's apartment building. Though puncture wounds to Caffrey's ears
>> have since healed -- Corujo says he still gets anxious.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Inside their home, Corujo says Caffrey is fine, but leaving the apartment to
>> work is a challenge since the attacks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "When he hears or sees a dog, he gets a bit anxious and he wants to cower
>> behind me because he just isn't sure what the dog is going to do," Corujo
>> said. "Which is not fair to me because he's been professionally trained and
>> he shouldn't be afraid in his own environment."
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes dogs, takes two years and can cost about $50,000.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes prepares each dog to handle everyday situations and adapt
>> easily no matter where their travels make take them.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> When Corujo and Caffrey are out, they take initiative when there is a person
>> with another dog approaching them. Corujo puts Caffrey in a "sit" position
>> and then lets the other person and dog pass by.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If someone is approaching her with a young child, Corujo says she will use
>> it as a teaching opportunity.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "I start explaining that, you know, he is a guy dog and this is what he does
>> for me and this is how he protects me. Once I do that, I might let them pet
>> him after that," Corujo said.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This service dog etiquette is common, according to Ben Cawley, director of
>> admissions for Guiding Eyes for the Blind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "If you're not sure what to do, you can approach and say, 'hi', but that can
>> be distracting to the team," Cawley explained. "Ask the handler if the dog
>> can say, "hello," and take a break from work. They have a lot of
>> responsibility when they're out. They worked hard and trained to be in
>> public spaces interacting with the public."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cawley says Guiding Eyes graduates like Caffrey are ambassadors for the
>> program, so it's crucial for everyone to understand their role and properly
>> approach them when they're working.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes is working with Caffrey to help him shake anxiety issues from
>> the attacks. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Dog attacks can cause injury but also mental stress," Cawley shared. "We
>> will work on getting the dog comfortable with guide work and help the dog
>> find work positive again. Sometimes we retire teams because a guide dog is
>> stressed out and the handler can be stressed as well."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Every day, Corujo says she is doing her part to make Caffrey's work life
>> positive again.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As the team continues to work together, Corujo says she hopes her message
>> will not only help other service dogs stay safe, but encourage all pet
>> owners to be more responsible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Since the second attack, the a Syracuse Police Dog Control Officer handling
>> the case tells us the dog that attacked Caffrey has been removed from the
>> building and the owner could face a fine after being ticketed.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Welcoming a New Guide Dog Team to Your Community:
>> 
>> -Don't distract a working dog.
>> 
>> -Don't give the dog table food.
>> 
>> -Keep your pet on his leash. 
>> 
>> -Always ask for permission before interacting with the dog
>> 
>> -Help spot service dog fraud. If you encounter a service dog team that you
>> believe to be fraudulent, alerting the handler, management or law
>> enforcement can make a big difference.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mgarside2%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:13:52 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking
> 	up for all service animals
> Message-ID: <00f801d3dffe$fa4ca2d0$eee5e870$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I rather felt the same way about it stating that the dog protects her. Of
> course "protects" has more than one meaning, but it is a perception many
> have that our guides are also guard dogs. The dogs in guiding do protect us
> in a way, keeping us from going down open excavations, maybe running into
> some things, going around obstacles, ut people don't usually interpret
> "protect" that way in my opinion.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Milissa Garside via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:54 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Milissa Garside <mgarside2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for
> all service animals
> 
> I thought this was pretty good minus the fact that it said her guide dog
> protects her. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:45 PM, Ginger Kutsch via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for all service 
>> animals
>> 
>> April 25, 2018
>> 
>> http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/guiding-eyes-dog-attacked-twic
>> e-owne
>> r-speaking-up-for-all-service-animals/1139855296
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes dog, "Caffrey," his job is to be part of a team with his 
>> owner Tonya Corujo. Together, they go to a variety of places, run 
>> errands and maybe even take a trip.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In the past few months, Caffrey was attacked by the same dog twice in 
>> and around Corujo's apartment building. Though puncture wounds to 
>> Caffrey's ears have since healed -- Corujo says he still gets anxious.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Inside their home, Corujo says Caffrey is fine, but leaving the 
>> apartment to work is a challenge since the attacks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "When he hears or sees a dog, he gets a bit anxious and he wants to 
>> cower behind me because he just isn't sure what the dog is going to 
>> do," Corujo said. "Which is not fair to me because he's been 
>> professionally trained and he shouldn't be afraid in his own environment."
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes dogs, takes two years and can cost about $50,000.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes prepares each dog to handle everyday situations and adapt 
>> easily no matter where their travels make take them.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> When Corujo and Caffrey are out, they take initiative when there is a 
>> person with another dog approaching them. Corujo puts Caffrey in a 
>> "sit" position and then lets the other person and dog pass by.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If someone is approaching her with a young child, Corujo says she will 
>> use it as a teaching opportunity.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "I start explaining that, you know, he is a guy dog and this is what 
>> he does for me and this is how he protects me. Once I do that, I might 
>> let them pet him after that," Corujo said.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This service dog etiquette is common, according to Ben Cawley, 
>> director of admissions for Guiding Eyes for the Blind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "If you're not sure what to do, you can approach and say, 'hi', but 
>> that can be distracting to the team," Cawley explained. "Ask the 
>> handler if the dog can say, "hello," and take a break from work. They 
>> have a lot of responsibility when they're out. They worked hard and 
>> trained to be in public spaces interacting with the public."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cawley says Guiding Eyes graduates like Caffrey are ambassadors for 
>> the program, so it's crucial for everyone to understand their role and 
>> properly approach them when they're working.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guiding Eyes is working with Caffrey to help him shake anxiety issues 
>> from the attacks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Dog attacks can cause injury but also mental stress," Cawley shared. 
>> "We will work on getting the dog comfortable with guide work and help 
>> the dog find work positive again. Sometimes we retire teams because a 
>> guide dog is stressed out and the handler can be stressed as well."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Every day, Corujo says she is doing her part to make Caffrey's work 
>> life positive again.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As the team continues to work together, Corujo says she hopes her 
>> message will not only help other service dogs stay safe, but encourage 
>> all pet owners to be more responsible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Since the second attack, the a Syracuse Police Dog Control Officer 
>> handling the case tells us the dog that attacked Caffrey has been 
>> removed from the building and the owner could face a fine after being
> ticketed.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Welcoming a New Guide Dog Team to Your Community:
>> 
>> -Don't distract a working dog.
>> 
>> -Don't give the dog table food.
>> 
>> -Keep your pet on his leash. 
>> 
>> -Always ask for permission before interacting with the dog
>> 
>> -Help spot service dog fraud. If you encounter a service dog team that 
>> you believe to be fraudulent, alerting the handler, management or law 
>> enforcement can make a big difference.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mgarside2%40gmail.c
>> om
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 17:17:56 -0400
> From: "Sandra Johnson" <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School
> 	logos
> Message-ID: <F7F0587222A8455789341D4C33B0471F at JOHNSON>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> 	reply-type=original
> 
> Cindy:
> 
> You bring up a good point.  I am guilty of being extremely affectionate with
> my dog when we are working.  I sometimes forget how that might look to the
> public.  I work female golden retrievers so the public sees them as cuddly 
> bundles of love anyway.  I have often heard people say how wonderful it is 
> that my dog is
> taking me where I need to go.  They do not realize that it is me who has to
> know where I am going and the one who is giving her the commands.  The logo
> of any guide dog school or agency should portray us in a positive light.
> Too many guide dog schools and agencies for the blind make us seem like we
> were completely hopeless and helpless until they came along and saved us
> from a life of darkness and despair.  I agree with Tracy, maybe this is a
> good topic to bring up at convention.  We should try to get the schools and
> other agencies to be sure that in the media we are shown to be positive,
> capable, independent and productive members of society.
> 
> Now for a question for discussion, if it is okay with Cindy our hard working 
> moderator.  Do you show your dog lots of affection while working or are you 
> more serious and low key?  Nither way is wrong I would just like to hear 
> from others what you do and why.  I personally am very glad that now we have 
> softer dogs so we do not have to do as much correction which gave the public 
> a very negative impression of guide dog handlers.
> 
> Sandra and Eva
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Cindy Ray via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 4:20 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
> 
> I don't think Tracy was minimizing the emotions of the other so much, but
> you have to realize that when a logo like that is out there in the public
> eye, that is immediately what they think, too. They think, "How wonderful
> that this person now has "eyes" and that must alleviate the loneiness and
> cut back on the dark.
> That isn't the same as minimizing someone's emotions, though I can see where
> someone might feel that way if he/she is going through a lonely dark time.
> Still, that does perk up the pity sense in people. Of course it also sells
> and gets donations. But I think TSE and Pilot's logos as described are more
> realistic. I would hope that no one here has taken offense to what Tracy has
> said, but I've seen people fawn over their dogs in some meetings; you see
> logos like this; some of us do overdo that sort of thing publicly. I think
> we do have to remember, as does the schools, what they really want to
> convey.
> Hope that made some sense. I would agree though that we don't want to turn
> this into a red hot topic.
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Miranda via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Miranda <knownoflove at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
> 
> Hi Tracy and all,
> While I completely agree with you that the job of a dog guide is a very
> serious one, and all parties involved should recognize and support this
> assertion, I do think we need to be careful in labeling others? emotions as
> ?crap?. While I am not one who has experienced loneliness and darkness as a
> cane traveler, I imagine there are those who may have experienced darkness,
> loneliness, isolation, and the like prior to receiving a guide. By labeling
> these emotions, we may be minimizing another?s experience.
> I only say this as food for thought, and not to start any heated debates.
> 
> Best wishes, Miranda
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part
>> of my decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I
>> felt it was symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at
>> the time that the GEB logo was similar.
>> 
>> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted
>> to show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big
>> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and
>> hugging your dog doesn't show that.
>> 
>> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions
>> about corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or
>> better corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's
>> essential the schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as
>> serious a job as a police dog, and get away from the "companion in my
>> lonely darkness" crap.
>> 
>> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or
>> brainstorm some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working
>> partnership, then share it with the schools?
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> .com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 19:31:22 -0400
> From: Milissa Garside <mgarside2 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking
> 	up for all service animals
> Message-ID: <F6BFA409-4DAB-40BB-BB97-6131019F1E82 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> Cindy,
> 
> Yes, I too thought of our dogs being protective and the way that you described. However, like you said, most would not interpret our dogs protecting us as the way you described. This is just my opinion but, I think that when we as handler?s speak to the media, it is important that we stick to factual information. And if we do not, it is important to clarify certain things. For example, had this woman described what she meant by her dog protecting her, it would be OK. Instead, one comes away from reading the article believing that guide dogs also serve as guard dogs. 
> 
> What I also find interesting is that as far as we know, the handler in question or the school has not corrected this miss information about the dogs protecting us. I know the article regarding comfort pets was discussed on this list. I follow guide dogs for the blind on Facebook and they not only posted the article but promoted it. I know I didn?t comment on this issue on this list but, on guide dogs for the blind Facebook page, I did point out that there was no such thing as a comfort pet and that service dog such as guide dogs are not considered comfort pets. I also indicated that it was shoddy reporting and stated that I thought it was sad that guide dogs for the blind was promoting this misinformation given that the article was riddled with inaccuracies. But, in discussing this issue with another guy dog handler, sadly, I came to the conclusion that some of these schools will do anything for PR in order to keep the dollars  coming to help those poor blind people. Just my cynical opinion. :-)
> 
> 
> Milissa
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 5:13 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I rather felt the same way about it stating that the dog protects her. Of
>> course "protects" has more than one meaning, but it is a perception many
>> have that our guides are also guard dogs. The dogs in guiding do protect us
>> in a way, keeping us from going down open excavations, maybe running into
>> some things, going around obstacles, ut people don't usually interpret
>> "protect" that way in my opinion.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Milissa Garside via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:54 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Milissa Garside <mgarside2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for
>> all service animals
>> 
>> I thought this was pretty good minus the fact that it said her guide dog
>> protects her. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:45 PM, Ginger Kutsch via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Guiding Eyes dog attacked twice, owner speaking up for all service 
>>> animals
>>> 
>>> April 25, 2018
>>> 
>>> http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/guiding-eyes-dog-attacked-twic
>>> e-owne
>>> r-speaking-up-for-all-service-animals/1139855296
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Guiding Eyes dog, "Caffrey," his job is to be part of a team with his 
>>> owner Tonya Corujo. Together, they go to a variety of places, run 
>>> errands and maybe even take a trip.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the past few months, Caffrey was attacked by the same dog twice in 
>>> and around Corujo's apartment building. Though puncture wounds to 
>>> Caffrey's ears have since healed -- Corujo says he still gets anxious.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Inside their home, Corujo says Caffrey is fine, but leaving the 
>>> apartment to work is a challenge since the attacks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "When he hears or sees a dog, he gets a bit anxious and he wants to 
>>> cower behind me because he just isn't sure what the dog is going to 
>>> do," Corujo said. "Which is not fair to me because he's been 
>>> professionally trained and he shouldn't be afraid in his own environment."
>>> 
>>> Guiding Eyes dogs, takes two years and can cost about $50,000.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Guiding Eyes prepares each dog to handle everyday situations and adapt 
>>> easily no matter where their travels make take them.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> When Corujo and Caffrey are out, they take initiative when there is a 
>>> person with another dog approaching them. Corujo puts Caffrey in a 
>>> "sit" position and then lets the other person and dog pass by.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If someone is approaching her with a young child, Corujo says she will 
>>> use it as a teaching opportunity.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "I start explaining that, you know, he is a guy dog and this is what 
>>> he does for me and this is how he protects me. Once I do that, I might 
>>> let them pet him after that," Corujo said.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This service dog etiquette is common, according to Ben Cawley, 
>>> director of admissions for Guiding Eyes for the Blind.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "If you're not sure what to do, you can approach and say, 'hi', but 
>>> that can be distracting to the team," Cawley explained. "Ask the 
>>> handler if the dog can say, "hello," and take a break from work. They 
>>> have a lot of responsibility when they're out. They worked hard and 
>>> trained to be in public spaces interacting with the public."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cawley says Guiding Eyes graduates like Caffrey are ambassadors for 
>>> the program, so it's crucial for everyone to understand their role and 
>>> properly approach them when they're working.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Guiding Eyes is working with Caffrey to help him shake anxiety issues 
>>> from the attacks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "Dog attacks can cause injury but also mental stress," Cawley shared. 
>>> "We will work on getting the dog comfortable with guide work and help 
>>> the dog find work positive again. Sometimes we retire teams because a 
>>> guide dog is stressed out and the handler can be stressed as well."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Every day, Corujo says she is doing her part to make Caffrey's work 
>>> life positive again.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As the team continues to work together, Corujo says she hopes her 
>>> message will not only help other service dogs stay safe, but encourage 
>>> all pet owners to be more responsible.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Since the second attack, the a Syracuse Police Dog Control Officer 
>>> handling the case tells us the dog that attacked Caffrey has been 
>>> removed from the building and the owner could face a fine after being
>> ticketed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Welcoming a New Guide Dog Team to Your Community:
>>> 
>>> -Don't distract a working dog.
>>> 
>>> -Don't give the dog table food.
>>> 
>>> -Keep your pet on his leash. 
>>> 
>>> -Always ask for permission before interacting with the dog
>>> 
>>> -Help spot service dog fraud. If you encounter a service dog team that 
>>> you believe to be fraudulent, alerting the handler, management or law 
>>> enforcement can make a big difference.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mgarside2%40gmail.c
>>> om
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 17:03:51 -0700
> From: "Becky Frankeberger" <b.butterfly at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School
> 	logos
> Message-ID: <00fa01d3e016$b9601320$2c203960$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
> 
> The logo on my husband's hat from GDB is a person walking with a guide dog. I didn't ask more detail. I wonder if GDB changed their logo?
> 
> Becky 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 1:20 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
> 
> I don't think Tracy was minimizing the emotions of the other so much, but you have to realize that when a logo like that is out there in the public eye, that is immediately what they think, too. They think, "How wonderful that this person now has "eyes" and that must alleviate the loneiness and cut back on the dark. 
> That isn't the same as minimizing someone's emotions, though I can see where someone might feel that way if he/she is going through a lonely dark time. Still, that does perk up the pity sense in people. Of course it also sells and gets donations. But I think TSE and Pilot's logos as described are more realistic. I would hope that no one here has taken offense to what Tracy has said, but I've seen people fawn over their dogs in some meetings; you see logos like this; some of us do overdo that sort of thing publicly. I think we do have to remember, as does the schools, what they really want to convey.
> Hope that made some sense. I would agree though that we don't want to turn this into a red hot topic. 
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Miranda via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Miranda <knownoflove at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Emotions associated with handling was Re: School logos
> 
> Hi Tracy and all,
> While I completely agree with you that the job of a dog guide is a very serious one, and all parties involved should recognize and support this assertion, I do think we need to be careful in labeling others? emotions as ?crap?. While I am not one who has experienced loneliness and darkness as a cane traveler, I imagine there are those who may have experienced darkness, loneliness, isolation, and the like prior to receiving a guide. By labeling these emotions, we may be minimizing another?s experience.
> I only say this as food for thought, and not to start any heated debates.
> 
> Best wishes, Miranda
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> GDB's change to a logo of someone hugging their dog was a small part 
>> of my decision to switch from GDB to TSE.  OK, so it's a logo, but I 
>> felt it was symbolic of some attitudes I didn't care for.  I heard at 
>> the time that the GEB logo was similar.
>> 
>> As I recall, GDB's reason for changing their logo was that they wanted 
>> to show the partnership between human and dog, but IMO there is a big 
>> difference between a working partnership and a pet partnership, and 
>> hugging your dog doesn't show that.
>> 
>> I know schools, and users, have had trouble with public perceptions 
>> about corrections, and I have no problem with moves to use fewer or 
>> better corrections, so long as the dog works well.  But I think it's 
>> essential the schools emphasize that it's a working dog, doing as 
>> serious a job as a police dog, and get away from the "companion in my lonely darkness" crap.
>> 
>> Could we perhaps bring it up at the convention, or something?  Or 
>> brainstorm some PR we'd rather see, that emphasizes the working 
>> partnership, then share it with the schools?
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/knownoflove%40gmail
>> .com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:04:59 -0400
> From: David <david at bakerinet.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] KRON Clip About Comfort Pets.
> Message-ID: <2ecce08c-0085-18c9-e727-bd305fccc991 at bakerinet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> I wanted to share with you, the correspondence I've had the Michelle 
> Kingston, who put the segment about ESA's and service animals.
> 
> Unfortunately, I will be traveling and while I will be able to read? 
> your replies, I will not be able to respond until May 6th.
> 
> David Baker in Clearwater, FL
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> Thank you for your reply, Michelle.? Unfortunately. the lead-off 
> announcer said that you were going to report on _"why both people feel 
> their comfort pets should be allowed in public."_
> 
> Despite your attempt to explain the dilemma faced by service dog owners, 
> your entire presentation was undercut by the words of the woman who 
> introduced you.? It is this kind of ill-informed broadcasting that 
> creates a false impression among those who do not know the difference 
> between emotional support animals and service animals.? Danielles' dog 
> is a working dog that has just as serious a job as explosive and drug 
> sniffing dogs, police dogs and cadaver seeking dogs.? Those of us with 
> service dogs feel the error was significant and serious.? The station 
> should apologize about this error on the air and correct it.?? Instead 
> of shedding light on the subject, as you intended, the introduction 
> managed to undermine efforts of the service animal community to draw 
> attention to the difference.
> 
> David Baker
> 
> On 4/27/2018 6:21 PM, Michelle Kingston wrote:
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> Thanks for your email! That?s exactly what our story was about. 
>> Theresa is visually impaired and was expressing how concerned she was 
>> that people were abusing the system, registering their pets as 
>> emotional support animals, when they are not trained, and making her 
>> life more difficult when she?s out with her service dog, Wills. We 
>> included Dana?s story as well to show that some people who do register 
>> their dogs as emotional support animals believe they?re doing it for 
>> the right reasons. I?m sorry if that was not more clear. We received a 
>> tour of the national headquarters for Guide Dogs for the Blind. It?s 
>> incredible to see how much work goes into those dogs before they are 
>> matched with someone. And yes, it?s very true that service dogs and 
>> emotional support animals are very different.
>> 
>> Have a great weekend and thanks for watching KRON!
>> 
>> -Michelle Kingston
>> 
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> -- 
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com*
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 04:33:10 -0400
> From: David <david at bakerinet.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] KRON Clip About Comfort Pets - Reply
> Message-ID: <1c5d94e5-9c0d-2510-1da8-d67176e9b21e at bakerinet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> I just wanted to share Michelle Kingston's reply, before I head out.
> 
> -- 
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> *
> 
> Hi David-
> 
> 
> I just went back and listened and you're right! That is not how I wrote 
> it, and I apologize for their error. I'll let my managers know about 
> your concern. Theresa's dog is certainly not a comfort pet, but a 
> trained guide dog!
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 157, Issue 26
> **************************************





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