[NAGDU] Travel and ESA's

Thu May 3 11:17:08 UTC 2018

	Sandra, 
The thinking on using a dog and a cane at the same time seems to be changing
in that now people are told they can do this. It didn't always used to be
this way. 
So you are correct, the thinking as with all types of things is changing. 
As for the public, who cares. People think what they want. 

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sandra Johnson via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 2:52 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sandra Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Travel and ESA's

Hello Janell:

That is why I asked the question.  I had never heard of using a cane and
guide dog at the same time.  In movies and printed stories about blind
people they are often using canes or guide dogs incorrectly.  I was thinking
that using both would confuse the general public by making them think the
dogs really are not able to do all the work without the blind handler using
their cane too.  When I got my first dog the trainer actually told us that
we should never use the cane at the same time because it would confuse the
dog.  If this has changed I have never run into a trainer who thought that
way or used it with their students.  I too thought this list was for asking
questions about things we did not know or had never experienced before while
working our dogs.  Now this is the last I will say on this subject unless
someone wants to give informative information on how and why using a guide
dog and cane can be helpful and not detramental to the work.

Sandra
-----Original Message-----
From: Janell via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 10:35 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: nellie at culodge.com
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Travel and ESA's

Wow, for a site that professes to be a safe, non-judgmental venue to ask
questions, share experiences and offer advice, more often than not get
comments such as this which in my opinion are rude, and attempt to include
all of us guide dog users to be melded into the same group with  a select
few people's idea of how a guide dog team should be defined.

I personally do not use my cane when out with my dog but I certainly do not
"throw stones" at those who do.  I do know of quite a few guide dog users
who use the cane in conjunction with their dog.  Everyone is different and
it is not necessary for any of us to explain why or why not we use a cane or
anything else for that matter.

-Janell

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Johnson
via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 9:00 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sandra Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Travel and ESA's

Hello:

Why would you need to use a cane if your dog is a well trained safe guide?
In your case with some sight it seems that the cane would not be necessary.
Those of us who are totally blind do not use a cane with our guide dogs.
Didn't we get dogs so we can put the canes away?

I do agree that something must be done about all the untrained dogs out in
the public, especially in airports.  As Jenine said the rules are there but
not enforced.  So, as NAGDU is an organization of guide dog handlers, what
can we do about this issue?

Sandra

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Wolf via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 2:32 AM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: Peter Wolf
Subject: [NAGDU] Travel and ESA's

Wow guys.  It was just a couple of hours after writing to you all about how
important it has been to me for us in our family to hold a balance between
impeccable training and performance with 'ambassadorship' as a working team.

It included some of what I consider somewhat intimate sharing about the bond
and love side of being a team in our own personal style that meets what we
feel to be authentic to us (my wife and i both).  And how well it works.

Now I've read the heads up messages from many of you about the recent
disgusting TV show about buying ESA status for pets.  I am just incensed.
I'll bet many of you can share experiences like ours, of having been
snapped, barked and lunged at in airports and other places, or worse.  It
now happens every time we fly, which is probably 8 times a year.  It's not
enough that our dogs ignore it.

If any of you remember, I've written that with spatial as well as sight
issues, I often have my cane working, even with my dog.  And, I am quick to
swing a floor arc around my dog, to arrive the tip on the floor between an
incoming fake service dog and my dog.  That's about all it takes,  No
hitting, no violence - just movement distraction and a physical object
quickly placed between the dogs as a separating deterrent with lateral
movement that seems to be an effective distraction.  It seems to be
disorienting to an aggressive dog to encounter an object suddenly appearing
from the side.  We keep moving forward, or my dog stops and sits while I
address the problem.  I'm vision impaired, not totally blind, so I don't
know how well this would work for some of you.  I can say at the least, this
poor dog behavior startles me, and we've been fortunate that none of us have
been hurt before.  When was the last time we dealt with this?  Let's think
back.actually.yesterday afternoon.

I am formal calling on all of us to put our collective foot down about the
lack of training for ESA's.  Who is the best, most potent place to begin
this process, who do we talk to?  This ethical and behavioral problem has
hurt enough of our real working dogs as a group of individuals, and will
only make life worse for us as people who have bona fide reasons to work
with them.  How can chip in here and name individuals in positions of power
to create a change, calling for initiating the necessity of ESA's to adhere
to the same code of conduct that we do?  Let's do something about this.

My best,
Peter

_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net

_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nellie%40culodge.com

_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net

_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
om