[NAGDU] Guide dog schools employing blind people

Wed Oct 3 13:31:50 UTC 2018

I'm one of the owner trainers.  Yes, of course, I think blind people can 
train guide dogs.  However, I do not think blind people can be plopped into 
a guide dog trainer job as they currently exist and be successful.  Safety 
measures and alternative techniques are needed.  I would not take an 
untrained dog into a part of town I am not 100% familiar with and in control 
of and work a dog.  When I start a dog I only work where I know the area and 
know for certain there is no construction, overhanging branches, potholes or 
other hazards.  Slowly as the dog shows competence in the skills of guiding, 
we venture out to more and more complex and unpredictable places.

I had my fourth dog trained privately.  that trainer was blind.  She brought 
the dog back to me and worked with me for a few days like an instructor 
would.  She did choose to use sighted assistance to monitor me and the dog 
working.  This was before services like AIRA.  I also didn't have an iPhone 
at the time.  I think if we did this now I could have been in contact with 
her via cell phone and she and or I could have used AIRA to double-check the 
area to better understand why the dog was responding in a particular way.

I also had a blind cane travel instructor.  I think many of the same 
techniques for that job would be relevant to working as a guide dog 
instructor.  However, the employer would have to be open to the instructor 
doing things with blindness alternatives.    Again, a blind person cannot be 
successful when the expectation is that they will do things in the same way 
as a sighted person.  You can get to the same result, but the path is 
different.

I have worked with a couple of people who were in the process of training 
their own guides.  I typically follow fairly closely and use my cane.  A 
second dog can be distracting to the dog in training and that just 
complicates the situation which isn't needed.  Dog distractions should 
certainly be added, but not in the very beginning.  One thing at a time and 
don't overwhelm the dog or the student.  If I'm unsure the dog will stop at 
the curb, I move ahead and put my cane across their path of travel just off 
the edge of the curb.  This ensures they don't step off into traffic.    If 
we are going to be working in an area unfamiliar to me, like the other 
person's home area, I will walk the route myself alone before working with 
the student on that route.

I encourage problem solving and thinking through the situation, instead of 
providing all the answers.  When there is no instructor right there the 
handler needs to be able to sort through information and draw their own 
conclusions.  I also tend to offer my own experiences of what has worked for 
me without insisting this is the only way.  There are lots of ways to train 
and work a dog and it's important to me to respect that.

I have no desire to train dogs for others.   I am open to assisting others 
with training their own dog though.  I do know of two blind people who will 
privately train guide/service dogs for a fee.

Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
<https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
-----Original Message----- 
From: Tara Briggs via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 6:38 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Tara Briggs
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dog schools employing blind people

Thank you everyone for your responses so far. Honestly I find it 
disappointing and frustrating how little employment the schools offer they’re 
blind  graduates. I’m not saying that the  Guide  dog schools should employ 
only blind  graduates but it just seems to me that there’s a lot more than 
confident line graduates can do and should be doing. I remember talking to 
some friends that went to GDB  when they had  their blind  dorm residence 
assistance and they  absolutely  loved them! Sometimes I feel like as  blind 
people we can give each other the best advice about how to work with our 
dogs because we live  it! Here at the Seeing Eye the counselor is cited and 
to be honest I have found myself so intensely missing  a blind full-time 
mental health therapist. Anyway, why do you think that the majority of the 
schools employ so few  of their own graduates?  It’s been really fascinating 
to me to meet blind  people who simply don’t think that blind people can 
teach Cain travel. And whenever I tell them about my incredible amazing 
experience with my cane travel instructor, Deja Pal,   I just get nowhere! 
Well, I look forward to further thoughts on this thread. I know there are a 
few people on this list  Who have trained  their  own dogs.  To those of you 
who have trained your own dog, do you think  that blind  people can be guide 
dog trainers? Do you think that blind people  Can we guide  dog instructors? 
If so, why do you think this and how do you think nblind  people could do 
it?
Tara

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
> wrote:
>
> GDF has 3 blind people on staff and at least 3 on the Board of Directors 
> plus several service dog handlers on that board as well.
>
> The 3 blind staff, including myself, are Carolyn who works in my office 
> and is the main person who answers our department phones but she also 
> arranges presentations and gives people in person tours and on=-site 
> workshops. Philip is our Dog Adoption Coordinator, not his official title 
> but I actually don’t know his official title. He works directly with dogs 
> that are being adopted, either after retirement or a career change.
>
>> On Oct 2, 2018, at 10:46 PM, Milissa Garside via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> As far as I understand, the guide dog foundation also currently has two 
>> blind employees on staff. However, I am unsure what their official 
>> titles are and do not want to put out misinformation. GDF folks, feel 
>> free to chime in.
>>
>> Last I knew, the psychologist on staff at guide dogs for the blind is 
>> also blind and is a guide dog user. In addition, I know that there used 
>> to be another blind woman who worked at guide dogs for the blind several 
>> years ago. If I am not mistaken, I believe she did some work that was 
>> involved with training the dogs. I remember a while back, there was a big 
>> movement to try to get the guide dog schools to have blind people 
>> actually involved with training the dogs. This woman that I am thinking 
>> of worked at guide dogs for the blind at that time.
>>
>> Milissa
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Tara Briggs via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all! To the guide  dog school‘s employ  many  blind people? To me it 
>>> just doesn’t seem like there are many schools that employs   blind 
>>> people. I know that for seeing eye and I understand guiding eyes have a 
>>> president that is blind. But here on the seeing eye, the only other two 
>>> members of the staff who are blind is the receptionist is blind and they 
>>> have a person who works on access issues that is  blind. Everybody else 
>>> is sighted  to my understanding. I would be interested   in more 
>>> information and anyone’s thoughts on this subject.
>>> Tara
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mgarside2%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40icloud.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/thflute%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2265 / Virus Database: 4365/15297 - Release Date: 07/04/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date. 