[NAGDU] New GDB contract

Thu Oct 18 17:47:59 UTC 2018

In GEB's ownership contract there is or was a clause that stated that though we owned our dog, they still had license to remove the dog. I signed up for ownership of Ivanna. When I saw that clause, I wondered why I even bothered. Granted, they wouldn't have removed Ivanna, but they could have as has been done to others. We either own our dogs or we don't. I'm so glad that TSE doesn't remove our dogs from us. If there are complaints then the SPCA would need to be called. If it were deemed necessary that a dog be removed, they would have to do it and in turn the dog would be returned to The Seeing Eye.

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:38 PM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi sherry.
> I'm very sorry to hear this.  I remember in the '90's, I wanted to own my
> dog, but, when I read the contract, it said GDB could take her away
> anyway, if they felt like it, so I didn't bother.  Then, in the 2000's, I
> tried again, and the contract gave me actual ownership, so I signed it. 
> Now it sounds like they've not only gone back to the old contract, but
> they've added even more reasons why they could take away a dog. 
> Disgusting.
> I would say that I hope other people will complain, as you did, and GDB
> will see the error of their ways.  Unfortunately, most GDB graduates don't
> seem to care about ownership at all, or at least they didn't when I was
> still one of them.
> Tracy
> 
>> Hi Tracy,
>> 
>> I am specifically upset about what it says about ownership. Yes, we all
>> know
>> I think, that GDB doesn't give immediate ownership, and I wish they did.
>> But
>> in the contract they have now, there's a section about ownership.
>> Basically,
>> it says even if you have ownership of your dog, GDB can take your dog away
>> for just about anything. All the conditions they'd take it away if you
>> didn't have ownership are reasons they would take it away if you do.
>> Everything from what they would consider abuse to not working your dog
>> enough or for a long period. For instance in my case, in the past I've had
>> several joint replacement surgeries, meaning I have at least a two month
>> recovery period. In most of those instances, either GDB boarded my dog
>> temporarily until I got home from the hospital, or friends took care of
>> the
>> dogs. I arranged with neighbors to help me with relieving my dog, but I
>> could still feed and care for them, with some modifications. But the new
>> contract says even if I own my dogs, which I do, they can take them away
>> at
>> their own discretion.
>> 
>> I did write a strongly worded letter to Chris Benninger expressing my
>> unhappiness and told her that unless they change the contract I could not
>> get a dog from them because I would never sign such a demeaning document.
>> 
>> The contract also reverted back to some of their old wording, including
>> not
>> using your dog for begging, though that wasn't the express phrase used.
>> For
>> me, though I know this organization was happy to see the end of the
>> California guide dog board, I feel like GDB is taking advantage of having
>> no
>> overseeing board to go backward instead of forward in how they treat their
>> alumni.
>> 
>> I'm incredibly unhappy about it. Especially because with my other
>> disabilities, it might be hard to get another school to work with me.
>> 
>> Sherry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 7:11 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] New GDB contract
>> 
>> Hi Sherry.
>> I haven't heard anything about the latest GDB contract.  What is in it
>> that
>> you object to?
>> It must be distressing for you to find something so obnoxious you can't go
>> back, having been with them so long.
>> I was also with GDB for many years, but finally decided to switch for
>> several reasons, some of which were philosophical differences.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>>> Even at my first class at GDB in 1975, we had lots of people with
>>> residual vision. This isn't anything new with GDB or any other school
>>> I suppose. I can't speak for any other organization, but I know GDB
>>> trains their dogs to be competent whatever the level of blindness the
>>> handler will have. The instructors work them under blindfold during
>>> the training, and they have to do complete routes under blindfold
>>> before they can state that the dog is class ready. Or that's how it
>>> was in 2014, the last time I went there. I don't intend to go back to
>>> GDB when Petunia retires for lots of reasons including physical
>>> ability for me and strong disagreement with their recent contract, a
>>> contract I would refuse to sign so wouldn't be able to graduate.
>>> But unless they've changed a lot, their dogs are definitely trained
>>> with instructors under blindfold. I know that sometimes they have
>>> students with low vision use sleep shades as well.
>>> 
>>> Sherry
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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