[NAGDU] FHA question

Julie Johnson julielj at neb.rr.com
Thu Sep 20 22:24:17 UTC 2018


You said you read the FHA.   Like Rox and others are trying to explain to 
you.  Emotional support animals, ESA, are legally allowed under the Fair 
Housing Act and currently the Air Carrier Access Act.  This means that 
people can have untrained pets in their homes and on planes to provide 
emotional support.  These animals do what they do by the fact of their 
existence.  They are not individually trained to do any specific tasks.

If you want to take your dog into public places, grocery stores, banks, 
doctor's offices etc, then your dog has to be individually trained to 
mitigate your disability.  This includes cognitive and psychiatric 
disabilities.  However as soon as the dog has received training to act 
appropriately in public and perform disability related tasks for the 
handler, it is not an ESA, it is a legitimate service dog.

I am saying that the particular woman you brought up is following the law by 
not taking her ESA in public.   She finds other ways to deal with her health 
related concerns, which is great.  Having a variety of coping strategies is 
a good thing.  We encourage guide dog users to keep up with cane skills. 
Folks with other types of disabilities also have different strategies 
available to them.

There are certainly people who take their ESA's into public and that is a 
problem.  I have never said having untrained and ill behaved dogs in public 
isn't a problem.  These people are taking advantage of business owners lack 
of understanding of the law.   There are loads of companies on the internet 
that are promoting this bad behavior by providing unnecessary documentation, 
which furthers the confusion.

More questions?  I'm happy to help you understand.  As a landlord it is 
particularly important for you to understand the differences between the FHA 
and ADA.

Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
<https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
-----Original Message----- 
From: Janell via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: nellie at culodge.com
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question

Why are you saying that ESA's are only for home only?  That is completely
preposterous!!!!   Again, if home use is "the only" reason they have an ESA
animal, then why are they taking them virtually everywhere?



-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:40 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question

Glad I could make your day!

No, of course I'm not saying she doesn't have anxiety when she leaves her
home.  What I am saying is that ESA's are for home only, so she is doing the
legal thing.

So many people complain about people abusing the ESA laws and taking their
untrained dogs in public.  Here's a woman who is doing the right and legal
thing and leaving her ESA at home, but still the complaints roll in.

Blind people aren't the only folks who can benefit from dogs.  It bothers me
greatly that other uses that are legally allowed, are summarily dismissed as
being categorically fraudulent.

Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
<https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=19
16046>
-----Original Message-----
From: Janell via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 2:45 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: nellie at culodge.com
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question

I disagree Julie,

Are you saying she only has anxiety/stress when she is at home?  I figured I
would get some backlash from my email when my only point was to tell you of
the ESA laws regarding ESA animals.  Thanks for not disappointing.
Naturally I know that any animal(service animal or not) still have to abide
by the same rules as any other animal.

If ESA's are  in your words "only for at home" then why in the world are
they everywhere... stores, air ports, businesses etc.?



-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 12:13 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question

ESA's under the FHA are for in her home only. The fact that she doesn't have
it with her when she is out and about is what should be happening.

I would think the barking should be handled like any other noise issue,
stereos up too loud, loud parties etc.   However you would address those
issues with tenants is how the barking should be handled.

Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
<https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=19
16046>
-----Original Message-----
From: Janell via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 10:18 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: nellie at culodge.com
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question

We do have a Tennent that claims she needs an ESA dog and she provided us
with some ridiculous certificate she printed on-line.  She says she is in
dire need of this dog yet she never has it with her and we have had
complaints about the dog barking all day and night when she is gone.  Now
she told us she is also going to have an ESA cat.  I looked up the laws in
Wisconsin and sure enough she can have more than one ESA animal and we can't
say anything about it.  It is just her way of getting to have a pet.  I
fully understand that there are folks who really do benefit from ESA animals
but in this particular situation it is not legit and we can't  do anything
about it.

Just food for thought...

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 11:00 PM
To: Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question

I know this isn't a helpful comment, but I wonder if all the folks with
illigit so- called service animals, folks who have pets and they buy a
certificate on line, or get their doc to write a note, have indeed caused
this problem to come in to being. I know a guy in my area who literally got
his doctor to write a note saying his cat is a service animal and then he
showed it to his apartment office as it's a no pets apartment or
something...so it does seem to be a more widespread problem then I would
have thought.  I was actually surprised he didn't at least have the brains
to keep that under raps but he seems to be telling everyone, oh well, ..


The point is, if people with what would I call it, fake service animals act
all  official about it and show certification or supposed certification to
get away with stuff, then can you hardly blame the uneducated public for
asking about this stuff. I do suspect, though it's total ignorance and
probably the first thing that comes in to their mind, the public that is,
rather than anything based on misleading precedent.

.I wish you good luck, Jordan, if it's not one thing it seems to be another,
right?--smile


Dan the man and Parker the nut



On 9/19/2018 11:30 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU wrote:
> Thanks for the responses. That is exactly what I thought. I am going
> to wait for them to ask again and decide how to handle it.
> Jordan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 19, 2018, at 10:23 PM, Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Jordan,
>>
>> I own numerous properties in Wisconsin and it is 100% not okay that
>> your landlord is asking about Belto.  They can not only not ask about
>> him, they cannot ask for a separate pet deposit nor can they ask for
>> an additional monthly fee for a service animal.  They can however
>> get/ask/require any damages (if any) from any animal (service dog or
>> not) if there are any damages to the property.
>>
>> Hope this helps, Janell
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 1:21 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>>
>> Hi Jordan. I've attached some guidance published by HUD in 2013
>> concerning assistance animals. It applies to both private and public
>> housing. Below is some pertinent language from the memo I think you
>> will find helpful.
>> Basically, no the landlord cannot ask for certification to prove that
>> Belto is a service animal. See below and attached:
>>
>> "However, a housing provider may not ask a tenant or applicant to
>> provide documentation showing the disability or disability-related
>> need for an assistance animal if the disability or disability-related
>> need is readily apparent or already known to the provider. For
>> example, persons who are blind or have low vision may not be asked to
>> provide documentation of their disability or their disability-related
>> need for a guide dog."
>>
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724,     Fax:  973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan
>> Gallacher via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 1:52 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
>> Subject: [NAGDU] FHA question
>>
>> I have a question. Is it legal under the FHA for my landlord to be
>> asking for certification that Belto is a service animal?
>> Thanks,
>> Jordan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
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