[NAGDU] Some Questions About Guiding Eyes

Mon Aug 19 01:42:59 UTC 2019

Thanks ruthie.

On 8/18/19, sunshine via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Yes, at GEB there is a great deal of downtime in the lounge. They matched me
> extremely well with my first dog and we went to a lounge which was closer to
> the school. The second one was a challenge, but we succeeded and I had her
> from 2011 until 2017, May of that year. Clicking and treating is mandatory
> in class. I used it only when necessary at home which was to be the case
> once home. It's a very good school. I'm glad I'm back at my school because
> that is where I belong.
>
> Sunshine
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone XR
>
>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I heard the same thing about GEB, but as you said, everyone should go with
>> whoever they are comfortable with, but it sure does make you wonder about
>> certain guide dog schools!
>>
>> Janell and miss Rosy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Danielle Ledet via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:07 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Danielle Ledet <singingmywayin at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Some Questions About Guiding Eyes
>>
>> Thanks for answeriing.
>>
>>> On 8/13/19, Jessica Diaz via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I had one GEB dog. I had him for 10 months. The staff is awesome. They
>>> love the students and truly believe in the mission. However: I
>>> definitely don't think they have a great matching process. They rush
>>> it in my opinion and need to try to do a better job at having dogs
>>> with behaviors that can be controlled. I won't go back and am so glad
>>> I found my current school. They are truly awesome and don't use food.
>>> I see a massive difference in my new dog's willingness to just want to
>>> do the job. I won't say don't go to GEB but I would really check into
>>> all options. The downtime is another issue I had and the reliance on food
>>> reward.
>>> Jessica Diaz
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Milissa Welch via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 4:37 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Milissa Welch <mwelch8877 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Some Questions About Guiding Eyes
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> My first four dogs were from guiding eyes. I was involved with the
>>> school from 2001 until 2016 when my fourth guiding eyes dog
>>> unexpectedly needed to retire early and I subsequently went to another
>>> guide dog school for my current dog. I found the trainers at guiding
>>> eyes to be absolutely amazing and absolutely dedicated to their work.
>>> I had four wonderful dogs from the school although, three of my dogs
>>> needed to retire early. One dog needed to return to the school
>>> shortly after I was matched with him  because we were not a good
>>> match. He subsequently was matched with another person Who was a
>>> better match for him and was able to work for many years. My other two
>>> dogs that needed to retire early was because of stress from them
>>> having to work constantly in a big city. While I had my dogs from
>>> guiding eyes, although yearly follow up was encouraged, it was not
>>> mandatory. I don’t know if that has changed in the past few years. In
>>> terms of follow up care, I always had excellent follow-up care from
>>> guiding eyes whenever I requested it. However, I should note that I
>>> live about two hours away from the field rep who services my area. So, it
>>> was always easy to get follow up care in a timely fashion  whenever I
>>> needed it.
>>>
>>> A couple things to take note of with guiding eyes. Upon graduating
>>> with your dog, you do not own the dog. The school retains ownership of
>>> the dog for the first two years of your partnership. After two years
>>> of your partnership, you can then apply for ownership. If guiding eyes
>>> determines that you are a graduate in good standing, you will then be
>>> granted ownership. However, as far as I understand, even if guiding
>>> eyes grants you ownership after two years of partnership, it is only
>>> conditional ownership as there are still some circumstances under
>>> which guiding eyes can remove your dog. If you are interested,  it
>>> might be worth getting some clarification regarding their ownership
>>> policy after two years of partnership. However, I do know that guiding
>>> eyes definitely does own your dog for the first two years of your
>>> partnership. Due to the fact that guiding eyes owns your dog for the
>>> first two years of partnership, if anything happens within the first
>>> two years in terms of the match not working out, you as the graduate
>>> do not have any say over what becomes of the dog. In other words, if
>>> anything goes wrong with in the first two years of partnership,
>>> guiding eyes will decide where your dog is placed. If the dog is
>>> retired, generally, the puppy raisers are asked first if they would like
>>> to take the dog. If guiding eyes determines that the dog is still able to
>>> work, they will place the dog with another person.
>>> Because you do not own the dog, within the first two years of
>>> partnership, you have no say over where the dog is placed if the match
>>> does not work out for you and the dog within your first two years of
>>> partnership.  If unconditional  ownership is not an issue for you,
>>> then perhaps the ownership policy I described above will not be of
>>> concern to you.
>>>
>>> Now that I have attended another guide dog school, one thing I did
>>> notice regarding my training at guiding eyes is that there is a
>>> significant amount of downtime each day that one must contend with.
>>> Each day, you travel from The main guiding eyes campus in  Yorktown
>>> Heights New York to the training lounge which is located in White
>>> Plains New York. Depending on traffic, the commute can be anywhere
>>> from 30 to 60 minutes each way. In addition, generally speaking, you
>>> only get one training route with your dog in the morning, and one
>>> training route with your dog in the afternoon. When you are not out
>>> training with your dog, you spend your time sitting in the white
>>> plains training lounge. Although the lounge does have an upstairs area
>>> where there are computers and at least there used to be some exercise
>>> equipment, there is not much to do each day during all of the downtime
>>> you have to contend with. Unlike at other schools who train closer to
>>> their main campuses, at guiding eyes, because White Plains is not
>>> close to the main campus, you do not have the option of returning to
>>> the main campus where you would be able to do other things with your
>>> time  once you are done with a training rout. Again, if you do not mind a
>>> significant amount of downtime, then perhaps this will not be an issue
>>> for you.
>>>
>>> Also, if you require a city dog, there is generally a long wait to be
>>> matched with a dog. Also, if you require a great deal of city work, at
>>> guiding eyes, you only train in Manhattan for at most 2 1/2 hours
>>> during your time at the school. Of course, if you end up doing home
>>> training, there is not nearly as much downtime because the training is
>>> one on one and is done in your home area. However, again, as far as I
>>> understand, there is also a long wait for home training.
>>> In terms of food reward training, I also did not like the way that
>>> guiding eyes used food rewards with their training while I had my dogs
>>> from them. I felt that the food rewards were very over used and that
>>> my dog was more interested in working for the food rewards rather than
>>> working because she enjoyed her job.  However, I should note that
>>> since I have not had any involvement with the school since 2016, they
>>> may be utilizing food rewards differently than they were when I had my
>>> dogs from them. For what it is worth, I am not against food reward. I
>>> believe that when used properly, it is a powerful and positive
>>> reinforcement training tool to use with dogs.
>>>
>>> Lastly, in my experience, I did not feel that guiding eyes was as
>>> invested in the matching process as my current guide dog school is.
>>> This is not to say that guiding eyes did A terrible job or that they are
>>> a terrible school.
>>> I believe that all of the schools (including guiding eyes) do the best
>>> they can with what they have with respect to the matching process and
>>> training. I just feel that my current guide dog school put far more
>>> emphasis, effort, energy, and thoroughness into ensuring that I got
>>> the best match possible given my particular lifestyle, living
>>> circumstances,  and specific  needs than guiding eyes did.
>>>
>>>
>>> Milissa
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 2:10 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The letter that I received denying my application stated that they do
>>>> not like their dogs doing complicated and complex crossings Jordan
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 2:07 PM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My first three dogs came from Guiding Eyes, and I still know many
>>>>> current graduates.  Many of these graduates live or work in large
>>>>> cities and regularly navigate complex crossings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa
>>>>> Belville via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:34 PM
>>>>> To: Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Lisa Belville <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Some Questions About Guiding Eyes
>>>>>
>>>>> Tracey, this is what I thought backtracking was, too.?? I've also
>>>>> heard it called reversing a route, i.e. you go someplace using
>>>>> mostly right turns and the route back uses left turns.?? Some dogs
>>>>> find it boring, especially ones with more initiative.?? Still, there
>>>>> are times when this is the way I want to go.?? It could be for
>>>>> safety reasons such as construction work or me just being too
>>>>> hot/tired.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't want a school telling me this is something I shouldn't be
>>>>> doing with my dogs.?? IMO if someone doesn't use backtracking often
>>>>> there's no harm in doing it occasionally.?????? I'd be interested to
>>>>> hear GEB's reasoning for this policy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/30/2019 12:19 PM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU wrote:
>>>>>> What I call backtracking is when the dog can reverse a path,
>>>>>> without too much input from me.  I had one dog who was really good at
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> If we'd go hiking, say, then decide after a while we wanted to go
>>>>>> back the way we'd come, I'd turn her around, tell her Forward, and
>>>>>> she'd remember where we turned and go back to where we started.
>>>>>> Pretty handy.  But not all dogs can do it well.  For me, it's a
>>>>>> nice extra, but
>>>>> by no means a must-have.
>>>>>> Others may feel differently.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm, what do you mean by backtracking?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/29/19, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> From what I was told when I had my home visit from Guiding Eyes,
>>>>>>>> they do have mandatory follow ups, and the following is what
>>>>>>>> ended up me taking them off the list.  They absolutely do not
>>>>>>>> want you doing any back tracking nor do they want their dogs
>>>>>>>> doing anything but really simple street crossings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jordan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Danielle
>>>>>>>> Ledet via NAGDU
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 9:48 PM
>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Danielle Ledet <singingmywayin at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Some Questions About Guiding Eyes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey yall,
>>>>>>>> I am considering strongly putting in my application for Guiding
>>>>>>>> Eyes.
>>>>>>>> How long do retrains have to stay? And, do they have mandatory
>>>>>>>> yearly followup visits? That's all for now, but do share your
>>>>>>>> experiences with the school for training and after you and your
>>>>>>>> dog have been working for awhile.
>>>>>>>> Positives? Negatives? Thanks you guys!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I met a Guiding Eyes dog and was very impressed with the
>>>>>>>> responsiveness even when not in harness. I prefer my dogs to be
>>>>>>>> seroius when working and not be easily distracted. This was a dog
>>>>>>>> fresh out of training and all of 2 years old.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the
>>>>>>>> young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving
>>>>>>>> and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life
>>>>>>>> you will have been all of these.
>>>>>>>> George Washington Carver
>>>>>>>> Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the
>>>>>>> young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving
>>>>>>> and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life
>>>>>>> you will have been all of these.
>>>>>>> George Washington Carver
>>>>>>> Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,
>> compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of
>> the weak and strong. Because someday in your life you will have been all
>> of these.
>> George Washington Carver
>> Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com
>>
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-- 
How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,
compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and
tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life you will
have been all of these.
George Washington Carver
Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com