[NAGDU] GDB training methods

cindyray at gmail.com cindyray at gmail.com
Fri Aug 23 02:32:24 UTC 2019 

Unless people are really cruel to dogs, the dogs don't have corrections hanging over their heads. They want to please; a correction helps them to know they made a mistake. There are times when ou need to use them. You get more results from honey than vinegar though, so lots of great praise, is helpful. And of course if you administer it often, they will remember the praise and work hard to please. But they are still dogs, and now and then they need a correction, even if it is just a verbal one.
Cindy Lou
cindyray at gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:40 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Yiska <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDB training methods

Danielle,

I think if you want a dog to think outside the box and not be scared of leash corrections you can't use leash corrections otherwise that is always hanging over their head.  As far as positive training there is definately a skill to communicating.  I think many schools put the dogs out younger and younger so they use corrections to try to manage what they haven't taught yet.
Yiska

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 4:45 PM Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> GDB was 100% positive reinforcement when I was there.  There is 
> absolutely a place for leash corrections, but with that being said, 
> one has to be taught when and how and if the dog requires them at all.  
> September did not need any corrections at all.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 5:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users < 
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Yiska <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDB training methods
>
> I have personally seen the negative effects of leash corrections on an 
> overdistracted dog.  His view of dogs went from excited want to play 
> to scared and refusing to work.  Increasing corection strength didn't 
> seem to help and made us both stressed.  It is good to know GDB is 
> slowly getting away from leash corrections but sad it is so slow.
> Yiska
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:48 PM Rebecca Ilniski via NAGDU 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I haven't had to use many leash corrections with my guides from GDB 
> > either. I have a confident, but mellow guy who enjoys his work. 
> > We've been home for about a little over two weeks now and his house 
> > manners and guidework are pheomenal! I work with students who are 
> > blind and are from various cultures so I needed a dog who settles 
> > well but yet can deal with the craziness of my city and that's what 
> > I got. I don't care for leash corrections either as not only public 
> > perception but with balance and vertigo issues I always need a dog 
> > who is easy to manage. It's a hard combo but they are definitely out there.
> >
> > Rebecca and Marvin
> > email: rilniski at gmail.com
> >
> > On Aug 22, 2019, at 4:23 PM, JLM via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks:
> >
> > I am a 3rd time GDB grad, and one of the two aspects of why I use 
> > GDB is their science-based training methods. The training staff 
> > knows I DO NOT use leash corrections on my dogs and know I will only 
> > exclusively positive methods and ignoring of all negative behavior.
> >
> > GDB is SLOWLY moving away, but not fast enough, from leash 
> > corrections. It is the public image why I won't use it either.
> >
> > I will use a time-out method, but include a "watch me" command if 
> > and when my dog is distracted. My current guide gets slightly 
> > distracted by some things, so I prefer this method. She is an easy 
> > to control sweetheart. None of my previous dogs, except my first dog 
> > from a Canadian school, required leash corrections. I work in an 
> > organization where public perception is a HUGE deal in my life so I 
> > prefer a dog that doesn't require this and is exclusively 
> > clicker/treat/praise trained, which I got. It took some confidence 
> > building on my girl's part to become a team (we came home in
> > May) but I am forever grateful for the extra training my dog 
> > receives and how hard GDB works to find that perfect match that best 
> > fit my employment needs, lifestyle, pace and health.
> >
> > Just my two cents and own experience 😊
> >
> > Jen and Parmesan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber via 
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: August 22, 2019 1:15 PM
> > To: Seyoon Choi <blindinsider1 at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the 
> > National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDB training methods
> >
> > Oh interesting. I don't think I would necessarily get away with that 
> > without people thinking I am being too aggressive or something.
> > Completely unrelated, but the technique that I find which works for 
> > me and my dogs is to immediately do five seconds of obedience or 
> > something when my dog is distracting. This regains my focus on the 
> > dog, in the event the issue is that I was unfocused. The dog regains 
> > focus on me, and on its work *hopefully*. Then usually, we can get 
> > on our way. At times, corrections are necessary, but since I started 
> > doing this with my first dog, I find corrections are rare for me. I 
> > am now on my third dog, and still find the above to be true. I 
> > realize that this may not work for many people, and for some dogs. I 
> > can't imagine that pulling the dog by its leash towards me and 
> > waiting for ten seconds to be necessarily helpful if the dog is 
> > being distracted and pulling... I can see it leading to a fight. So 
> > instead, I give my pup a command she has to obey. When she does, 
> > sometimes, especially in the beginning or especially distracting 
> > situations, she gets a treat, and always a scratch on the head. When 
> > we both are refocused, I pick up
> the harness handle and charge on. This works for us.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 1:01 PM Seyoon Choi 
> > > <blindinsider1 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I was taught to drop the harness handle, pick up the leash with 
> > > both hands and bringing the dog close and wait 10 seconds until 
> > > the dog stops pulling towards the distraction. This is only good 
> > > though for certain types of distraction, I normally result to corrections.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Seyoon
> > >
> > > On Aug 22, 2019, at 2:08 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > What exactly is timeout?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:44 AM Seyoon Choi via NAGDU 
> > > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I graduated from gdb with my first guide little over a week ago 
> > >> so happy to answer this one. Yes, gdb does leash correction. 
> > >> Timeout is our first method but they will have us correct them if 
> > >> the distraction is intense, or people are trying to come for my 
> > >> dog for instance and he begins to pull/jump on them.
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >> Seyoon
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>> On Aug 22, 2019, at 12:31 PM, Yiska via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello list,
> > >>>
> > >>> I am looking into schools as my 4th dog didn't work out.  What 
> > >>> is GDB's view on corrections?  Do they do leash corrections?  
> > >>> They are promoting
> > >> to
> > >>> the world that they are an all positive school but their grad 
> > >>> class lectures say they use corrections.  I figured I would here 
> > >>> from grads themselves.  I am not opposed to redirecting.  Thanks 
> > >>> for your
> > time.
> > >>> Yiska
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >> 40
> > >> gm
> > >> ail.com
> > >>
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> > >> l.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Nimer Jaber
> > >
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