[NAGDU] Bread and a leash setup that prevents munching

Peter Wolf pwolf1 at wolfskills.com
Mon Dec 2 20:44:32 UTC 2019


Here is an easy solution to keep a dog’s head up off of the ground, hands-free.  I’ll share my leash rig with you below.

Metukah has always been a nose girl.  In original training, the school said although her incorribly curious hedge-sniffer nose is a deficit, she’s so good and well suited to me all around that they would accept my use of a gentle leader as standard operating procedure, instead of clipping leash to her collar.  Using the head halter keeps her head up, and it has also provided more sensitivity of leash communication to be very light-handed as well.  I’ll explain how I’ve made this work, including that it works autopilot.  

It is about how I have put loops into the leash for the right distances.  Tuki and I have three basic leash length, working positions, the place where I’d be holding the leash along it’s length normally by hand, depending on what we are doing.  So that I don’t have to grip it by hand, I have sewn a little loop of webbing strap onto the leash, a little inchworm loop that is just bulging out so that I can slip one or two fingers through it.  This becomes the working length.  For the leash end, which is usually just a holding loupe, I put the carabiner on it, and use the biner instead.  Once I gauge where I want her head and body to be working with me, I simply  clip it through the appropriate length position of the leash.  This, I then clip onto my belt.  At this point, I can even let go of it and the head height retaining function will still work. Let’s say, we are at a Rotary Club meeting, or a salad bar area at Whole Foods, or walking through an area where I do not want to deal with her getting curious to graze the ground.  I simply clip the loupe that when I’m not even holding the leash, automatically retains her in working position at my side.  Her head is free to move, but does not reach the ground.  

I use the shortest loupe, the one closest to the dog, quite short when also using my cane, which is usually in crowds, offices, restaurants etc.  The middle length is general walking, and even if I drop the leash, she and I are retained in formation.  I only have to let my fingers brush by to find it to find the leash.  This is about where our harness handle position is anyway.  There are longer ones, when I am being more laid back.  I can use that short loup and never worry about her head ever getting less than a couple of inches from the ground, ever.  

Cetacea makes excellent leashes, and if you ask, they might be willing to sew these loupes for you with a little additional leash strap.  I suggest this, because it is a time consuming deal to use carpet thread and a needle, sewing enough passes to trust a good tug on the loupes.  Cetacea’s leashes are more flexible in their weave than most store leashes, and they last forever without getting stiff.  I have three, and highly recommend them.  The specific leash material I use is called two step.  That refers to color, but it also differentiates it as this flexible nylon.  

If any of you might want to get the design of my leash setup, just contact me.  We’ll get a photo for you or someone who can get eyes on it and describe it in a way that best answers your questions.  I’ll lay it out flat, and also get my wife to take a shot of Metukah and me working with the leash.  

Best,
Peter 

Connecting With the Wisdom of the Earth
Executive & individual coaching, consultation, and nature-based facilitation
www. Wolf Leadership Institute . com
707. 829 - 0776




> On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
> 
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Bread (Tracy Carcione)
>   2. Re: Bread (Vivianna)
>   3. Re: Bread (Sherri)
>   4. Re: Bread (Tracy Carcione)
>   5. Re: Bread (Susan Jones)
>   6. Re: Bread (cindyray at gmail.com)
>   7. Re: Bread (Tracy Carcione)
>   8. Re: Bread (Lyn Gwizdak)
>   9. Follow up about a discrimination complaint (Peter Wolf)
>  10. Correction (Peter Wolf)
>  11. Re: Bread (Tracy Carcione)
>  12. Re: Bread (Madison Martin)
>  13. Re: Bread (d m gina)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:11:43 -0500
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <00ab01d5a53d$5c68fc70$153af550$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?  
> 
> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.  
> 
> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
> for 2 blind people.
> 
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:24:11 -0600
> From: Vivianna <irishana at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <0E9E3480-2D1D-44CB-BDED-16422D58EC03 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> This is nothing to mess around with. People can be very cruel. I have had 2 poisoning attempts on a previous guide dog. It was poisoned meat that they were leaving around where i and a couple other guides in the complex where i was living at the time,could get to it. 
> I would seriously consider muzzling a scrounging dog if you think he can and will get to it.
> My thinking is that, bread is much cheaper than meat, and, they could simply soak it in antifreeze. That will kill anything that picks it up.
> Good luck and, be careful.
> 
> Vivianna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 27, 2019, at 10:12 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
>> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
>> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
>> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
>> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
>> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?  
>> 
>> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
>> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.  
>> 
>> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
>> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
>> for 2 blind people.
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/irishana%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:26:03 -0500
> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <010301d5a53f$5d91da20$18b58e60$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> That's not even fair, considerate and downright rude and other very negative
> adjectives.  I hope this problem is dealt with.  I certainly understand your
> concern.
> 
> Sherri
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:12 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?  
> 
> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.  
> 
> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
> for 2 blind people.
> 
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:32:51 -0500
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <00bb01d5a540$4ff76140$efe623c0$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Gosh, that's awful!
> 
> I've been thinking of getting a muzzle.  Maybe now is the time.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vivianna via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:24 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Vivianna
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> This is nothing to mess around with. People can be very cruel. I have had 2 poisoning attempts on a previous guide dog. It was poisoned meat that they were leaving around where i and a couple other guides in the complex where i was living at the time,could get to it. 
> I would seriously consider muzzling a scrounging dog if you think he can and will get to it.
> My thinking is that, bread is much cheaper than meat, and, they could simply soak it in antifreeze. That will kill anything that picks it up.
> Good luck and, be careful.
> 
> Vivianna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 27, 2019, at 10:12 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
>> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
>> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
>> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
>> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
>> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?  
>> 
>> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
>> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.  
>> 
>> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
>> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
>> for 2 blind people.
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/irishana%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:33:54 -0500
> From: "Susan Jones" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <005601d5a540$77908e70$66b1ab50$@sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Tracy,
> 
> What you need is a very high wind, like we're getting here in Indianapolis.
> LOL!
> Every crumb of bread would be gone, in the snap of two fingers!
> 
> Beyond that, I do feel your pain.  UGH!
> 
> Susan
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:12 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?  
> 
> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.  
> 
> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
> for 2 blind people.
> 
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sblanjones11%40sbcglobal.
> net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:53:27 -0600
> From: <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <014801d5a543$30e3b940$92ab2bc0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Tracy, that is really so very weird. You can use Aira to help you find it if
> you have the app on your phone. You  have the first five minutes free. I
> don't know if you use it or not, and there may be other options that way.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:12 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?  
> 
> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.  
> 
> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
> for 2 blind people.
> 
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:56:19 -0500
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <00bd01d5a543$979405f0$c6bc11d0$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Thanks Cindy.  That's a good idea.  I do have AIRA.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:53 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: cindyray at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> Tracy, that is really so very weird. You can use Aira to help you find it if
> you have the app on your phone. You  have the first five minutes free. I
> don't know if you use it or not, and there may be other options that way.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:12 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?  
> 
> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.  
> 
> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
> for 2 blind people.
> 
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 09:54:22 -0800
> From: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>
> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAHTx+LMOiSfOAD_sWGCMgRwVN63Cqsz92sNmbDKRzT+Oic3tQQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Tracy, do you know who is doing that? Only a mentally screwed up person
> would put poisoned bread or meat out for animals. Have you talked to your
> guide dog school about this? A muzzle will work, too. I dont know what the
> hell is wrong with people anymore. Good luck with that.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving everyone who celebrates it.
> 
> Lyn and Aristotle
> 
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:57 AM Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Cindy.  That's a good idea.  I do have AIRA.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:53 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: cindyray at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
>> 
>> Tracy, that is really so very weird. You can use Aira to help you find it
>> if
>> you have the app on your phone. You  have the first five minutes free. I
>> don't know if you use it or not, and there may be other options that way.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:12 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
>> 
>> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
>> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
>> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog
>> says
>> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
>> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
>> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?
>> 
>> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was
>> in
>> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.
>> 
>> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
>> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
>> for 2 blind people.
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gwizdaklyn%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:21:43 -0800
> From: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Follow up about a discrimination complaint
> Message-ID: <7E3A71B2-B879-4037-A01C-D547642349FD at wolfskills.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> Hello all.  
> 
> Back in February, I shared details of an incident in which both my guide dog and I faced discrimination, being refused service and ejected from a business.  
> 
> I filed an ADA Department of Justice complaint.  After considerable time a letter came, stating essentially, thank you for submitting a complaint?we receive a lot of complaints? this isn't serious enough? we are busy...sorry we can't help you.
> 
> The input from you guys: Marion, Tim Elder, and MIchael Hingson, was very helpful.  On your suggestions, I then filed with the Califonia Department of Education and Housing.   In their bureaucratic calendar, filing back in February resulted in an intake phone appointment?today. 
> 
> The agent was clear, caring and excellent in distilling and referencing the complaint and incident material.  In case, God forbid, any of you folks ever need to waste the kind of time that I have put into this, yourselves, please remember in a discrimination incident how important it is to immediately document all details, interactions and sequences.  She was very appreciative of my having provided detail, and said that in most cases, they get the equivalent of a one-liner.  With this amount of detail, including that I had documented the incident with the local police at the time, they will treat it seriously.  My suggestion is that you do as I did - to open some form of voice recorder or dictation into an email to self in your phone, and immediately document sequential details at the time of the incident so that you don?t have to rely on fading memory later.  And do call in the police, or at a minimum, make a telephone incident report and get the incident report number, submission time and date.  
> 
> I documented how at first it seemed that the dog was being refused, but that on disclosing identity and purpose voluntarily for the dog, and that laws protect this, I also was told to leave.  Based on this aspect (rejection of the handler as well) they brought up and began inquiry on an additional complaint under Civil Rights.  This may result in two actions.  First would require the business to be put through training to educate and change behavior.  Secondly, there may be some form of monitary settlement.  She said that they have a legal team who will work on this, and that a settlement is often the only way to get attention and engagement in a solution.  
> 
> I mentioned NFB and NAGDU to the agent, and how we dialog how we periodically see violations like this.  She asked me to share with you all that they represent citizens actually in four areas:  They are: 
> 
> 1.   Fair employment and housing violations 
> 
> 2.  CC54 Civil code regarding Service Animals - ( which applies to this complaint)
> 
> 3.  Hate crimes
> 
> 4.  Unruh Civil Rights:  for Denial of service by a business, for age, race, religion, and possibly disability -  (which applied when I mentioned that I as the human handler was also refused service)
> 
> Finally, Michael, I mentioned your background and excellent strategy of behavioral training by having a bunch of service teams come into a business at once.  She got a good chuckle out of that and saw the value in it.  
> 
> Warm regards all for the holidays.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connecting With the Wisdom of the Earth
> Executive & individual coaching, consultation, and nature-based facilitation
> www. Wolf Leadership Institute . com
> 707. 829 - 0776
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 11:06:55 -0800
> From: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Correction
> Message-ID: <C0B7324C-6880-4FCC-B337-FF113499EC71 at wolfskills.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> FYI on my last email, these are the specific areas addressed by the the California DFEH.  A slight correction of the four points in my prior email.
> 
> Best,
> Peter
> 
> The Department?s authority extends to violations of the Fair Employment and Housing Act, Unruh Civil Rights Act, Ralph Civil Rights Act and Disabled Persons Act. Other labor and employment laws are enforced by other agencies. If the Department is unable to assist you, we will attempt to refer you to other agencies that may be able to address your concerns.
> 
> Connecting With the Wisdom of the Earth
> Executive & individual coaching, consultation, and nature-based facilitation
> www. Wolf Leadership Institute . com
> 707. 829 - 0776
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:54:19 -0500
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <00da01d5a564$d760dde0$862299a0$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> To be fair, I don't know if the bread is poisoned or not.  It might be
> someone's idea of bird feeding, or squirrel feeding.  It is very strange,
> whatever they're up to.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 12:54 PM
> To: NAGDU List Posting
> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> Tracy, do you know who is doing that? Only a mentally screwed up person
> would put poisoned bread or meat out for animals. Have you talked to your
> guide dog school about this? A muzzle will work, too. I dont know what the
> hell is wrong with people anymore. Good luck with that.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving everyone who celebrates it.
> 
> Lyn and Aristotle
> 
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:57 AM Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Cindy.  That's a good idea.  I do have AIRA.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:53 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: cindyray at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
>> 
>> Tracy, that is really so very weird. You can use Aira to help you find it
>> if
>> you have the app on your phone. You  have the first five minutes free. I
>> don't know if you use it or not, and there may be other options that way.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:12 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
>> 
>> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
>> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
>> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog
>> says
>> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
>> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
>> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?
>> 
>> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was
>> in
>> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.
>> 
>> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
>> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
>> for 2 blind people.
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gwizdaklyn%40gmail.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:23:00 -0600
> From: "Madison Martin" <maddymartin at mymts.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> 	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <009101d5a568$d983c110$8c8b4330$@mymts.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi Tracy,
> This is truly awful. I think that you should muzzle Crocus just to be safe.
> Talk to your guide dog school too. Hopefully you can figure out who's doing
> it, and get it stopped. Keep us posted.
> Madison
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: November-27-19 2:54 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> To be fair, I don't know if the bread is poisoned or not.  It might be
> someone's idea of bird feeding, or squirrel feeding.  It is very strange,
> whatever they're up to.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 12:54 PM
> To: NAGDU List Posting
> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> 
> Tracy, do you know who is doing that? Only a mentally screwed up person
> would put poisoned bread or meat out for animals. Have you talked to your
> guide dog school about this? A muzzle will work, too. I dont know what the
> hell is wrong with people anymore. Good luck with that.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving everyone who celebrates it.
> 
> Lyn and Aristotle
> 
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:57 AM Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Cindy.  That's a good idea.  I do have AIRA.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:53 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: cindyray at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
>> 
>> Tracy, that is really so very weird. You can use Aira to help you find 
>> it if you have the app on your phone. You  have the first five minutes 
>> free. I don't know if you use it or not, and there may be other 
>> options that way.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via 
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:12 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Bread
>> 
>> Something strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping 
>> pieces of bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of 
>> feeding the birds, or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A 
>> neighbor with a dog says they dropped bread all up and down the 
>> street.  She went out and picked up as much of it as she could, 
>> because her old dog is on a special diet and can't eat junk like that.  
>> And who even knows if it's not poisoned?
>> 
>> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it 
>> was in his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.
>> 
>> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before 
>> Krokus comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest 
>> thing to do for 2 blind people.
>> 
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.n
>> et
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gwizdaklyn%40gmail.
>> com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/maddymartin%40mymts.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:07:03 -0500
> From: d m gina <dmgina at mysero.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Bread
> Message-ID: <83ae67c3.054d.4165.8448.9ae76ca3aa23 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
> 
> Original message:
>> SomThis isn't good,
> My dog would do the same thing.
> If you have a gentle leader use it.
> It will help a little bit.
> I say that, because even wearing something, if she really wishes to go 
> after it she does and stretches what she is wearing.
> Wishing you the best.
> ething strange is going on on my street.  Someone is dropping pieces of
>> bread all over.  I don't know if it's someone's idea of feeding the birds,
>> or if they're trying to poison pigeons, or what.  A neighbor with a dog says
>> they dropped bread all up and down the street.  She went out and picked up
>> as much of it as she could, because her old dog is on a special diet and
>> can't eat junk like that.  And who even knows if it's not poisoned?
> 
>> I'm a bit worried myself.  Krokus will eat anything, any time, and it was in
>> his relieving area, as well as places we often walk.
> 
>> I guess my husband or I will have to go out in the morning, before Krokus
>> comes out, and check for bread on the ground.  Not the easiest thing to do
>> for 2 blind people.
> 
>> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dmgina%40mysero.net
> 
> -- 
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
>  FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9
> *************************************




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