[NAGDU] advantages/disadvantages was stairs and guide dogs question
Julie Johnson
julielj at neb.rr.com
Thu Feb 21 16:09:47 UTC 2019
Yes, to what Dan says. Plus here are my additional thoughts.
In ideal conditions, no echo, no sirens, no high wind, no snow my travel
with cane or dog is close to the same. Probably a bit faster with the dog,
but not extraordinarily so. Exactly how often I travel under these perfect
conditions though...I have no idea. It feels like a glorious rare event to
be enjoyed and cherished, especially since we got 4 more inches of snow
yesterday and freezing rain is on the way tomorrow.
Averaging out all circumstances and giving an overview, I travel faster
outdoors with a dog, but indoors it feels about the same, unless it's a
place I go a lot and the dog knows the routine. Like when I go to the post
office, the dog knows which door we will enter and that we will exit by a
different door. she knows to find the end of the line and wait for it to
move up. Of course I had to teach her those things, which made the first
few trips a bit slower than it would have been with a cane, but the long
term benefit is saved time.
I think that's really the heart of it. In the beginning a dog does take
more time. Time to learn how to work with each other. Time to teach the
dog your routines and expectations. time to get in sync. That takes a few
months to a year, but once you get through that part, the dog provides a
whole lot a cane cannot. finding things is a big one. I also appreciate
offering a different path when my first choice isn't doable. I find a dog
more comfortable to use physically. I don't grip the harness handle the
same way you would a cane and it's easier for me to walk long distances
without pain in my wrist and hand. My dog also provides some help with
balance on rough terrain, ice or even up and down steps if I'm having a bad
day.
Of course dogs need food, vet care, grooming, playtime and overall cost more
in time and money than a cane. Mostly that's not a problem, but sometimes,
like when it's 33 degrees with a 40 mph wind and freezing rain I'd rather be
getting a root canal than be out with the dog. Well, maybe not, but it's
close! *smile* It balances out though, when the dog swerves around a car
that ran a red light, or refuses to move forward onto ice, or turns their
head to indicate there's a person you didn't know was there, you feel safer.
or at least I do.
Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
<https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
-----Original Message-----
From: Sherri via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:39 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Sherri
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
That was wonderful Dan. For someone on the fence about whether to get
another dog for various reasons, you've almost swayed me in the "get another
dog" direction.
Sherri
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via
NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 5:28 AM
To: Afik Souffir via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
Well here goes my take anyway. I was never as independent traveler with
a cane as with a guide dog. I know this flies in the face of the modern
way of thinking or what I might call the "party line" that you must be
great at O and m with a cane before you consider a dog, or that it's
just a difference in travel method, Yes, I of course know, you have to
know something about where to go and how to get there, no question. But
I worked hard on the cane ...however my hearing, deafness on the left
side caused me to do all sorts of things like veer, and I couldn't
follow the direction of sound, and I became more and more hesitant to
cross streets. I always loved dogs and felt I should try it, with the
dog and the training came motivation to get out there, I figured out
really fast when I got home from training that i didn't really
understand my home area very well,a nd I had to spend a few works
halling butt to learn going out on walks with friends or family, I
finally sort of trained them to tell me what I needed otto learn and
then I practiced and got several good routes dow, I certainly moved
faster, rarely ver veered on street crossings, and on the occasion that
I didn't hear a car my dog would do his best to keep me safe or disobey
the command. I did found that I traveled with a dog in many places alone
that I hadn't done before with a cane. Anyway of course specifically the
dog will get you around obstacles following your commands for a general
line of travel. A dog can smoothly do this sometimes so skillfully that
you don't even know there was an obstacle. A dog will stop for changes
of surface and curbs, waiting for you to tell him or her what to do.
Dogs have Ben trained ot, or can learn to find many objects or
destinations such as doors, stairs, inside (the entrance to somewhere(
outside (the exit). I would say that generally your walking witill be
faster and smoother with a dog, though of course I do know cane users
who'll give me a run for my money as we say--smile. Also dogs an take
initiative, I know that during training the first time, 1994 they kept
criticizing me for letting my dog find things or a path because he was
very very smart, but it made me so happy that I could walk fast and tall
and know I was going the right way even if my orientation failed me for
a moment. What I'd say is learning what you can trust your dog to do,
and what you need to be in charge of is what ttakes the longest. You
still will have to have the motivation, guts, and initiative to get out
there and plan where you want to go and how to get there. but if you're
motivated and willing to get out there and do things, make mistakes
sometimes but learn,a nd keep at it, I think you'd do very well. I
really don't know if that was a bunch of platitudes or if it really
helped, maybe think of some questions that are more specific or based on
what I have said?
Sio basically, the cane's object is to sweep in front of you, to clear a
space for the next step. A dog will guide you on a path of your choosing
and though I'll admit--smile sometimes my dogs have found other paths I
didn't know about--- that's another story.
by the way, you can get lost with sa dog, there are two brains, you and
the dog, working at the same time, and that can lead to all sorts of
things--smile
Even after 24 years no wait 25 years of using a dog the thrill of taking
a nice fast walk knowing I don't have to get ensnared by alal the
obstacles is just a wonderful feeling, and besides as I say I love dogs
more than I can say.
Disadvantages; well you have to take car e of a dog, you don't folkdd it
or put it in a corner. You have to deal with people, and though I am a
people person I must admit sometimes people can be rather annoying or
just make you wonder what happened in the scheme of evolution--smile
And there is the emotional cost, we love our dogs and frankly, hwhen
they get sick or die it can be devestatiing at least for me.
One thing I could never do in the pre dog days was walk independently
while following someone. Most of the guide dog programs train the dog
also for the follow command where you can tell the dog to follow a
designated person, this was invaluable to me in quite a few
environments, allowing me to keep safe and independent while being with
someone else.
Also thoughmy dogs have allowed me travel to all sorts of places there
ar limits, when I first got a dog I ws pretty idealistic and pictureed
myself going everywhere, including to a restaurant I liked that would
have involved crossing two state highways, sorry, that sididn't work
out, dog or no dog--smile. the traffic conditions were too chaotic...
You will know what you can do or not based on your training, talk with
your trainers and other handlers, O and M, and just your trial and
error, so don't worry about that...
But I mean look when I think of it I dodo a lot of walking with my dogs
in the local area and I've lived in different places for study and work
and even in different countries,it's really a wonderful thing.
Now also, remember on this list you will mostly I assuem get people who
like me, adore using a guide dog,f or those who don't like it--smile
don't know whom I'd recommend you to but though I try to be balanced I'm
sure my enthusiasm comes through.
also at least for me, the cane takes tremendous concentration I can't
walk a straight line to save my life even when I'm sober and to do so I
must concentrate to a very high degree, I tend to be a lot straighter
with a dog because he's taught to guide in a straight line of
travel...aviding obstacles and then coming back to the line of travel we
were on,.
Anyway I wish you a wonderful early afternoon.
I'm sure that's more than enough for now.
I'm thinking later when I'm awake I'll describe some walks I take with
my dog so you can seem ore of the mechanics of it, but now I'm not
mentally clear-headed enough--lol
More coffee is required.
.
On 2/21/2019 4:56 AM, Afik Souffir via NAGDU wrote:
> Hello Dan and all,
> Here its 11:51 AM so, I'm sorry if I wake anyone with this message smile.
> My traning organization manager know about my problem, with the left hand.
> About guide dogs expirences -sorry for the spelling errors,- I want to
know
> what are the deffrences between to walk with a cane, and to walk with a
> guide dog.
> For myself, I think that guide dog will let me be more indipandent with
the
> mobility.
>
> Thanks for any response,
> Afik.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:12 AM
> To: Afik Souffir via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>
> Hello, Afik, I think maybe I spoke to you once on skype, not sure.
>
> Well I have heard of guide dogs being trained to walk on the right, at
least
> one of the schools here does this, and I know the others will if
> necessary, any of that type of adaptations is called "special needs"
> here and several training facilities do it.I know of course, nothing about
> what the Israeli programs do. I've also heard of people with CP using
guide
> dogs and the school adapts the harness in some way so that they could
> use it with their weaker hand, So yes I've heard of it and I think you
> would have to mention it to your training organization or at least mention
> that you have a problem with your left hand. A Also, I'm not sure what
you'd
> like to know about having a guide dog, such a vast question but I for one
am
> glad to tell you anything you want to know, right to us publicly here, or
to
> me privately:
> dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net. or we could use some social media like whats app,
> skype or messenger, up to you.
>
>
> Of course remember one thing, we guide dog users are a little like drunks
in
> a bar--smile we have very strong opinions and each one of us seems to
think
> that he/she is right, and so on--smile. so take all the opinions and come
to
> your own conclusion and hopefully you'll get your own doggie at some point
> and then you can be the one who tells us things.
>
>
> I'm Dan from Florida, age forty-nine, can't believe it--lol, I've had four
> guide dogs..I'm totally blind and I am deaf in the left ear, fortunately
the
> right ear does a good job.
>
>
> Yours most sincerely,
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 2/21/2019 1:40 AM, Afik Souffir via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hello all.
>> My name is Afik souffir from Israel. I wrote to here one time and
>> didn't get any response, except one.
>> I'm 20 years old, and I have cp in my left hand.
>> I want to know if guide dog can go in the right side? Is there an
>> option to train the dog to walk on the right side?
>>
>> I want to hear, also the exprince to be with a guide dog.
>>
>> Afik.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:24 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Yiska <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>>
>> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and
guiding.
>> Yiska
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the
>>> railing. So, I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working
>>> your guides, or do you just hang onto them and let them guide you?
>>> Just
>> curious that's all.
>>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>>
>>> Madison
>>>
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