[NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals

Thu Jun 13 14:20:01 UTC 2019

Bonnie,

Agree all around. 

Best Regards,

Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: Bonnie Mosen <bonnie at mosen.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:16 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com; 'Tracy Carcione' <carcione at access.net>
Subject: RE: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals

Hi Mike and all.
I agree in part with certification not being the way to go in the US, but until businesses etc start enforcing the laws already on the books, fake or out-of-control service animals will continue to be a problem. 
Sadly, the US is such a sue happy society businesses are afraid to say or do anything.
I personally don't mind a well-behaved animal in a public place, but the key word is well-behaved. 
Whether a service animal comes from a programme or is owner trained if it isn't behaving it has no rights in public or anywhere else, but I don't ever see most places enforcing this.
A friend of mine's well trained guide dog has been jumped several times at a local store, by a dog the man claims he is training. He does nothing to control the dog and the store does nothing either saying it's the law for the dog to be there.
At least the airlines are starting to crack down, so I suppose that' a start. 
Cheers
Bonnie 

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hingson via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, 13 June 2019 5:44 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com; 'Tracy Carcione' <carcione at access.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals

Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding guide and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened with any additional certification requirements to be able to take Alamo anywhere in the U.S.

The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service animals. The solution is NOT to put more demands on us. 

Best Regards,

Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals

Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you go to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding me on the bus.
Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little thing that is in a doggie stroller.

Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you 
> how it works here in NZ.
> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from 
> The Seeing Eye.
> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International 
> Guide Dog Federation.
> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school 
> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up 
> from a US school isn't possible.
> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They 
> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that sort of dog.
> From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really 
> recognized here.
> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and 
> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been 
> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor 
> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with training issues.
> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with 
> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
> Cheers
> Bonnie and Eclipse
> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have 
> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's 
> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>
> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in 
> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the US.
> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm 
> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the 
> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide 
> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Tara Briggs
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's 
> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>
> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a 
> good idea. For those who haven’t read the article, it basically argues 
> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a 
> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an 
> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that 
> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I 
> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service 
> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are 
> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens 
> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
> Tara
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU 
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on 
> > disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws 
> > mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and 
> > different proposals for reform:
> > https://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/australia-s-laws-failing-to-keep
> > -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
> >
> >
> > Dr Paul Harpur
> > BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of 
> > Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
> https://www.fulbright.org.au/current-scholars/>/International
> Distinguished Fellow<
> https://www.google.com.au/search?source=hp&ei=dosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw&q
> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
> > Senior Lecturer
> >
> > TC Beirne School of Law
> > The University of Queensland
> > Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
> >
> > T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
> > E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB 
> > Profile<https://law.uq.edu.au/paul-harpur>/Google Citation Page 
> > <https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=6Y47my0AAAAJ&hl=en>
> > CRICOS code: 00025B
> >
> > [https://omc.uq.edu.au/files/4097/UQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg]
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> >
> > Scientia ac Labore
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