[NAGDU] Convention

sheila.leigland at gmail.com sheila.leigland at gmail.com
Fri Jun 28 15:22:17 UTC 2019


hi, michael have any arrangements been made about getting dog food 
delivered to the national convention or is there even a way to do that? 
thanks much.

On 6/15/2019 7:04 PM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU wrote:
> Download the agenda from the NFB.org convention web page. Descriptions of relieving locations are included.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martine Abel <martine.the1 at xtra.co.nz>
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 5:32 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com; 'Marie Villaneda' <Marie.JV at outlook.com>
> Subject: RE: [NAGDU] Convention
>
> Hi all, what's the set up at Convention re where we ccan (as you Americans call it) park our dogs?
> Cheers
> Martine
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hingson via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, 16 June 2019 9:22 a.m.
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com; 'Marie Villaneda' <Marie.JV at outlook.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Convention
>
> Hi,
>
> Lots of thoughts. First and foremost, give extra praise regularly while you are at the convention with your guide. There will be lots and lots of people who will not be paying as good attention as they should while they travel. They will bump into you and your dog. You need to remain calm and encourage your guide, not become fearful, angry or upset. Your dog is looking to you always for support.
>
> For many years I did not take a guide dog to our National conventions due to the poor travel skills of others at the convention. Many years ago, however, I changed my opinion and began taking guide dogs to the conventions. Perhaps it was my experiences at the World Trade Center on September 11, but I realized that praise, encouragement and support for my dogs kept them focused and working successfully. You keep following all the lessons you learned when you got your guide and you keep encouraging good guide work and all will go well.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
> Vice president, NAGDU
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> To order Michael Hingson's new book, Running With Roselle, and check on Michael Hingson's speaking availability for your next event please visit:
> www.michaelhingson.com
>   
> To purchase your own portrait of Roselle painted by the world's foremost animal artist, Ron Burns, please visit http://www.ronburns.com/roselle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Marie Villaneda via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 12:25 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Marie Villaneda <Marie.JV at outlook.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Convention
>
> Any general tips for convention with a dog? I’m not new to traveling, and think I have a general idea of things but wanted to see if anyone has anything to say on the matter
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 15, 2019, at 8:01 AM, "nagdu-request at nfbnet.org" <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. EU/Switzerlan dog acceptance, and, international rabies
>>       travel booster shots (Peter Wolf)
>>    2. Re: Foreign certifications and the related questions (Lyn Gwizdak)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:58:35 -0700
>> From: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [NAGDU] EU/Switzerlan dog acceptance, and, international
>>     rabies travel booster shots
>> Message-ID: <4CF39D7A-FD5C-4C46-AA4D-0A2B6FD68039 at wolfskills.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> Yes, correct, Switzerland isn?t in the EU.  But that doesn?t seem to matter.  They were fine for entry.
>>
>> This was trip number two in the past few years to Europe.  The first time, we landed in Amsterdam.  This time, Zurich.  Other border crossings within Europe were casual, or nothing at all since it is now mostly EU members.  On a train down into Italy, for example, there was an announcement that border agents would come through for passports.  Yup, a couple of guys did walk through, but that?s all they did?walk through!
>>
>> Experience so far is that any real hubbub is from the U.S., through the USDA.  It seems that the rest of whom we?ve seen so far are more civilized and dog friendly.  If they meet you at all when you land, it?s because you had to declare something special on the way in over there.  Otherwise, you get, as you walk through, hey what a great dog, welcome, have a nice visit, bye bye.
>>
>> Here, you go to not just a vet, but specifically a USDA endorsed one, for which you?ll pay added fees.  There is one amongst the large staff of our vet clinic, so we see him for this.  They will do the health cert and make sure rabies is up to date, and get at least two copies of the rabies certificate (one of them, embossed), with the third party vet health certificate.  Make sure you have duplicate everything.  Then you make an appointment and travel to a USDA APHIS office, where they look at the papers, and stamp them (called endorsing), to say essentially, that yes, they are papers from a vet?and now are officially USDA endorsed.  Then off you go.
>>
>> Another country may ask to look at papers, but usually just a quick glance at a rabies cert if anything at all.  This business is mostly for re-entering the U.S.  The first time home, we stopped at USDA within customs, where they gave us a friendly rectoscopy, going through everything in fine detail.  It took half an hour.  This time however, in Philadelphia there was just one guy at a counter, who only glanced at a current rabies certificate and we were done.  Hey you know the drill, if you put up your tarp, it won?t rain.  Get the paperwork!
>>
>> Ok,  that all was for main Europe, not UK countries and Sweden who have stricter entry requirements. The deal with countries that are islands is they may not have had rabies before.  So they are very strict about boosters.  Be careful, this can get you overvaccinated.  So any of you guys planning for travel, do think ahead.  For UK countries (England, Ireland and Scotland), our current three year rabies booster is sufficient.  But, it must also be accompanied by a vet?s entire rabies booster history, all the way back to puppy?s first shot.  If there has -ever- been a lapse of a rabies shot due date - in the dog?s entire history - even a booster due date lapse of just one day - then a full booster must be given, within one year before entering that country.  Several weeks may have to pass between this new shot and entering the country, so that they consider that it has taken effect.  This is regardless whether you are currently within your good three year booster period.  So lets say, that a year an a month ago, you did your three year booster.  If your pup ever missed a shot in it?s past, even by one day, then you must vaccinate again.  This then gives you one year to be current for entry into that country, including the time you?ll spend there.
>>
>> We have researched enough to learn that most of the time (or more), our dogs?s original puppy shots are still be measured by titer tests to be providing current immunity sufficiency.  So we do not over vaccinate them.  The array of boosters, in other words, that most dogs get after the original series, appear to be unnecessary, provided that titer tests do show currently sufficient immunity.  Dogs really do seem need to get shots in the beginning as puppies, to keep them safe from diseases to which they can be exposed.  But then, they may have lifelong immunity.  There are exceptions, such as water or fecal-borne diseases for which they may still need a booster because those pathogens change over time and they may not be protected from the new ones.  Talk to your vet, and find out whether they are level headed researchers who will weigh data, or shot marketers.  Our research on over-vaccinating points to long term health concerns.  So we spend whatever money necessary on titer tests.  And at age 9, we have gotten answers all the way through so far, that immune antibody levels are fully current, so no further vaccinations have been necessary.  Here in California, however, there is no getting around a rabies booster every three years, even if you drop the thousand bucks for a rabies titer test and it shows perfect immunity.  You still are required to do the shot.  So we do that one.
>>
>> I believe that we have never lapsed a rabies period for a booster.  So in theory, for the UK, within any three year period after a rabies booster shot, we could go to a UK country.  But rules change, and so do interpretations of individuals, such as that one, officious officer who was having a bad day, that you might run into on your next trip.  How this applies to UK, Sweden, and anywhere else with strict rabies rules is, we will only visit one of those countries during the period within the first year of a current rabies shot, even though our shot is a three year dose.  That keeps us safe from foibles on entry, and clearly within the period that a shot had to be given if they have any issues anyway.
>>
>> As long as we are on this, if any of you need a reminder of the little nasty bits we can encounter, ADI has cut a deal with the UK.  Only dogs from schools affiliated with ADI get into UK countries.  Other service dogs can enter, but if trained with a non-ADI school, or self-trained, you will have to buck up and pay a (quote), special handling fee unquote, of 800 British Pounds per dog on entry.
>>
>> Happy travels all!
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 14, 2019, at 5:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>>>
>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>   1. Re: Acceptance of service dogs in Europe (Dan Weiner)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:34:57 -0400
>>> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>> To: Peter Wolf via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Acceptance of service dogs in Europe
>>> Message-ID: <21fcf474-44de-3551-40b8-858e179fd8fd at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Fascinating cultural notes and descriptions, thank you so much for
>>> sharing this with yous. would love to hear from you more about your travels.
>>>
>>>
>>> Now since I believe Switzerland is not? in the EU and Italy is, was
>>> there any difference in documentation and paperwork for your entry in to
>>> those countries?
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 6/13/2019 9:18 PM, Peter Wolf via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> Hey all, one more thing for info.  Just back from 3 and a half weeks in Europe, I can update info here.
>>>>
>>>> First, in Switzerland, they have only one classification for service dogs, seeing eye.  No other categories are recognized.  And they want to see a certification card.  A Swiss one, not someone else?s.  However, once explained that we were visiting, and explaining the use of the dog verbally in German (bindenhund), and/or holding up my cane to relate, it worked to show the card from our school, and simply explain that we were visiting.  They also recognize guide dogs in training just like working guides.
>>>>
>>>> It was also interesting, that, since Andrea?s service dog is not about vision, that it still worked out once Metukah and I were addressed.  We immediately found ourselves concerned about this, because we were already there!  Interestingly, we would simply disclose what our dogs do, then the train conductors and other officials would expain the rules, then almost always say something like, ?but it is perfectly fine with me? and wish us a good time, whatever it was we were doing.  We appreciated that, because at first we were very concerned for Andrea and Kira.
>>>>
>>>> There?s a reason why people sometimes say something runs smoothly like a Swiss watch?in Swiss culture the watch metaphor is no accident, not for anything!  We found that we loved this about Switzerland.  Amidst such precision as a societal context, there is a wonderful feeling of relaxation actually.  Everything runs on time, is wonderfully clean, and it seems like there isn?t a hurry going on. Adrenaline doesn?t seem such an everyday thing there.  We really enjoyed being there and it made it all the more pleasant meeting people.
>>>>
>>>> Then Italy, oh Italy.  Italy was interesting in this regard.  They have only one category also, seeing eye.  But Italy is a multifaceted festival of seeming randomness, and chaos, even when there are rules, schedules or expectations.  Italy is a party.  No matter where we went, we got hit with a lot of heat and crap right up front, no dogs, no dogs, sorry (not sorry), no dogs!  But then, asking in Italian how to describe us, I learned an alarming phrase, the one that is specifically used for guide dogs.  The term is Cane (pronounced cahn-neh), di Invalida.  What a sucky phrase.  In language translation, you literally have to tell someone that this is a dog for a person who is an invalid, and point to your cane or yourself.  But this, in Italian, is specifically what they call a guide dog!  That took time to get used to, which I never did, because if we learn the leve of self-mastery that it takes to work in the world without the dominant sense of vision, that is one very capable person.
>>>>
>>>> Then it gets interesting.  Say, you walk into a ruin or a museum.  You get hit with the no-dog, no-dog challenge.  In Italian, you meet them, get in a conversation, and identify the dog.  Everyone pauses a moment, they confer, and then everything warms.  The doors open, all smiles, and they won?t accept your money for the ticket, no matter what you say.  It?s weird, especially for those of us who don?t wish for special treatment.  It?s a gauntlet.  You have to prepare to get bounced off the door, or get the boot if you?ve walked in already.  You meet and greet, and then it?s all love.  And everyone in that moment was always so in the festival of it at that moment, that they just welcomed Andrea and Kira also, alaying our similar concern.   The dynamic was bizarre and wonderful in how the heart came through.  Gotta love this about Italy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 8:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
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>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>>   1. National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing
>>>>>      to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Paul Harpur)
>>>>>   2. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Tara Briggs)
>>>>>   3. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>      (Tracy Carcione)
>>>>>   4. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Bonnie Mosen)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 12:21:16 +0000
>>>>> From: Paul Harpur <p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au>
>>>>> To: "nagdu at nfbnet.org" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>     failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>     <SYCPR01MB5357BADA304905D3DAE58B4A98ED0 at SYCPR01MB5357.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
>>>>>     
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and different proposals for reform: https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep-up-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115145104&sdata=dI3y5gQzND7vq%2BeQOeYs9TamNGIuV8sPomQUmLlninI%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing)
>>>>> Fulbright Future Scholar<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115145104&sdata=xBdjRItuuuvX7tHIMMev3%2BV210%2FN4jvIi3PjTQXplH4%3D&reserved=0>/International Distinguished Fellow<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26btnK%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26oq%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26gs_l%3Dpsy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039.0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.B7g_g7X_Ck4&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115145104&sdata=DtMRlQNg48ejMH%2FDMe2bv5Nqojago%2FNN7eboBc7VvRE%3D&reserved=0>, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>
>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>
>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115145104&sdata=lKisulUCi4bHSdkyobtu1cEh194oaeVX0PnS%2Bm9GPEY%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115145104&sdata=l7dWt%2FaOWaJstSmdOstpKVTD504L16xgQDRG7n9GZbg%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>
>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland.
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 06:37:20 -0600
>>>>> From: Tara Briggs <thflute at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>     <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>     laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID: <0414D8CA-7275-4081-811A-6E025FEE9361 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
>>>>> Tara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and different proposals for reform: https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep-up-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115145104&sdata=dI3y5gQzND7vq%2BeQOeYs9TamNGIuV8sPomQUmLlninI%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing)
>>>>>> Fulbright Future Scholar<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=NUMTX19FzIFF4HmmMwR6wyll28txDF0Ahg70kG7xyKY%3D&reserved=0>/International Distinguished Fellow<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26btnK%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26oq%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26gs_l%3Dpsy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039.0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.B7g_g7X_Ck4&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=lA%2FCfT81S2zqGV%2FaM%2FD73JnvJNafiLfwm7%2FPm0K%2BCmc%3D&reserved=0>, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=K1zzm3VJFufHGwx%2BncgU1yPFeE3NGoEbzTDPnsCLmiI%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=w06YoNj3JT7cXzFvlHXP%2BRVY%2Bj5Z0v0thnvh4rXtF3U%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fomc.uq.edu.au%2Ffiles%2F4097%2FUQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=B3UILpOTtikp1ZBmzxLHPnNDMwbkL%2BQcKLL4y7jfoQQ%3D&reserved=0]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=prPCmqGj%2B4FxghTYwCgayJVq62p709S%2FKBowTMXdF3g%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fthflute%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=obaT7EY2SfqCAN89d8v9f%2BA8eMuT2tbjYl4XX3BPmts%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:47:54 -0400
>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>     Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>     laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID: <001301d52053$e371fb50$aa55f1f0$@access.net>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the US.  There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
>>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
>>>>> Tara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and different proposals for reform: https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep-up-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=UEKBqSu706aLvzSEe5Wp8WOl83SPTymouPAYXNukjoA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of Australia (non-practicing)
>>>>>> Fulbright Future Scholar<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=NUMTX19FzIFF4HmmMwR6wyll28txDF0Ahg70kG7xyKY%3D&reserved=0>/International Distinguished Fellow<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26btnK%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26oq%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26gs_l%3Dpsy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039.0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.B7g_g7X_Ck4&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=lA%2FCfT81S2zqGV%2FaM%2FD73JnvJNafiLfwm7%2FPm0K%2BCmc%3D&reserved=0>, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=K1zzm3VJFufHGwx%2BncgU1yPFeE3NGoEbzTDPnsCLmiI%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=w06YoNj3JT7cXzFvlHXP%2BRVY%2Bj5Z0v0thnvh4rXtF3U%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fomc.uq.edu.au%2Ffiles%2F4097%2FUQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=B3UILpOTtikp1ZBmzxLHPnNDMwbkL%2BQcKLL4y7jfoQQ%3D&reserved=0]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115155113&sdata=prPCmqGj%2B4FxghTYwCgayJVq62p709S%2FKBowTMXdF3g%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fthflute%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=3%2FCXJgfIgj4thE6ZXs%2BlSJylUc6zxH9qfNQAhWaO0Xg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=2OgTmN0JBN2Y6EG4Sa0xhzxTopo7afmXqL%2BczNRHcoA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fcarcione%2540access.net&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=M1WcKwkqIMryrOQOmF0BEnX6TjYDnzhNnJrkaqt5y24%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:00:09 +1200
>>>>> From: "Bonnie Mosen" <bonnie at mosen.org>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>     Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "'Tracy Carcione'" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>     laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID: <003601d520d3$56cfb9a0$046f2ce0$@mosen.org>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you how it works here in NZ.
>>>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from The Seeing Eye.
>>>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
>>>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International Guide Dog Federation.
>>>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
>>>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up from a US school isn't possible.
>>>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that sort of dog.
>>>>>>  From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really recognized here.
>>>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
>>>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
>>>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with training issues.
>>>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
>>>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have their dog certified by the guide dog school.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>
>>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the US.  There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
>>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
>>>>> Tara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
>>>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws
>>>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
>>>>>> different proposals for reform:
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep-u&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=f9ZH4Urmgy0rKW3aTCHG%2FsftalzqqWpK7YzNu1d1JP8%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=sm2En3Fdbu1FHO8DBjcGP9AykfgjMWQryVcJg8HjvNE%3D&reserved=0>/International Distinguished Fellow<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26btnK%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26oq%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26gs_l%3Dpsy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039.0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.B7g_g7X_Ck4&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=FNs5Myxkw%2F36J95wCafKVlgnabpkuTk0w18282t23oY%3D&reserved=0>, Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
>>>>>> Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=eQJ%2F16cgpFtWx3THFDBQJzPYnTfQlHawuUHlYWjXyGA%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page
>>>>>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=m7%2BS6WwfR%2FDyniaB60tcENZhIKoEedIgr6y79dO8aSQ%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fomc.uq.edu.au%2Ffiles%2F4097%2FUQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=JUzkBIs3kZWcbWHjPrVMu6%2BbU1VFhQfj%2Ft0EY%2BanB8s%3D&reserved=0]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in this email do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=2OgTmN0JBN2Y6EG4Sa0xhzxTopo7afmXqL%2BczNRHcoA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fthflute%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115165121&sdata=3%2FCXJgfIgj4thE6ZXs%2BlSJylUc6zxH9qfNQAhWaO0Xg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 171, Issue 9
>>>>> *************************************
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Subject: Digest Footer
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 171, Issue 13
>>> **************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:02:31 -0700
>> From: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>
>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Foreign certifications and the related questions
>> Message-ID:
>>     <CAHTx+LOTUiug5QDB5vEZx=mBwMhPkvni492B1uaopDsiuDJa1A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>> When I have flown, the TSA agents really enjoy the patting down of the dog.
>> The dog enjoys the nice attention he gets and happily wags an wiggles a
>> bit. I have gotten the dog-loving agents. And they tell me what a nice well
>> behaved dog I have. I have never been at Security when one of the
>> ill-behaved fakes are there. I think the general public think we have magic
>> dogs that behave. They think of their dogs who have never had a lick of
>> training. These are not the people who drag out their aggressive mutts in
>> public. They think it is perfectly okay to let their dogs attack ours.
>>
>> Lyn and Aristotle
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 6:11 PM Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, airports by in large are covered by the ADA as they are physical
>>> pieces of property owned not by airlines, but by other entities. ACAA only
>>> comes into play with specific places that may be governed only by airlines.
>>> This is why, for example, we cannot litigate against the fact that airlines
>>> do not provide accessible kiosks since they are owned by the airlines.
>>> However, at McCarron Airport in Las Vegas, as I understand it, the kiosks
>>> are owned by the airport and thus come under the ADA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 6:03 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Foreign certifications and the related questions
>>>
>>> Airports and other places of public accommodation are different in the
>>> US, because the ACAA covers both SDs and ESAs. The majority of dogs in
>>> airports that are misbehaved are, on paper, legitimate ESAs, who do
>>> need documentation. It's a whole different dynamic in airports,
>>> because you have to address not only SDs but
>>> ESAs, who don't necessarily need any training at all.
>>>
>>> Even if there was mandatory service dog certification, it wouldn't do
>>> much in airports. ESA handlers, in theory, already need documentation
>>> and well, clearly that doesn't work at all because it doesn't address
>>> the dog's behavior.
>>>
>>> Danielle
>>>
>>>> On 6/13/19, Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi Peter and all.
>>>> Yes, I get the good behaviour comments as well.
>>>> Considering what I've seen and heard about in US airports. Their comments
>>>> are troubling but valid.
>>>> I had an interesting experience in Newark a few months ago.
>>>> The security dogs were out, and the TSA didn't want my dog going near
>>> them
>>>> so routed us a different way.
>>>> My dog would have distracted them from their job.
>>>> Made perfect sense since those dogs work differently from ours.
>>>> But getting back to what they see on a daily basis, its barking,
>>> growling,
>>>> lunging, emptying in the airport etc.
>>>> To me that's a security risk, and passenger and dog should be removed
>>> from
>>>> plane or airport.
>>>>
>>>> Bonnie
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Peter Wolf via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Friday, 14 June 2019 12:24 PM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Cc: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Foreign certifications and the related questions
>>>>
>>>> Hi all.  I am with you on this Michael Hingson.  We who team with a dog
>>> for
>>>> service have (or should have) impeccably trained and operating service
>>> dogs
>>>> and be left alone to do our daily life.  Anyone who fakes a service dog
>>>> should be fined and punished by law.  Faking is unethical and immoral and
>>>> that specifically is what needs to be addressed.  Full stop.
>>>>
>>>> There are a few steps down from my soapbox, hang on a moment while I
>>> make my
>>>> way back down.  Thanks friends.
>>>>
>>>> Danielle, I also appreciated what you said.  I don?t know what?s going on
>>>> regarding variations in service dog behavior.  Each time - and I mean
>>> this -
>>>> I cannot recall an exception - that we go through security at an airport
>>> and
>>>> walk through a metal detector, we receive comments from TSA agents.  It
>>> is
>>>> always about how well behaved the dogs are.  I mean, as if this is
>>> something
>>>> new to them. What?s up with that?
>>>>
>>>> Between Metukah and me, we?ve had enough radiation doses to light a
>>> city.
>>>> So we only walk through metal detectors, not scanners.  This means that I
>>>> have Metukah sit or stand outside the detector with me.  First, I give my
>>>> folded cane to them to send through the X-ray machine.  Next, I always
>>> take
>>>> off the gentle leader, because whatever metal it uses always does
>>> alarm.  I
>>>> always send that one through. I generally strip anything else with
>>> hardware
>>>> off and put it through, except that her collar never alarms, and the
>>> leash
>>>> has brass, so it doesn?t either.  The leash loop end has an climber?s
>>>> aluminum carabiner on it, which generally clips on my belt.  I just
>>> double
>>>> the leash and clip the finer onto her somewhere so it won?t drag.  Then
>>> she
>>>> waits while I walk through the detector, to the agent on the other side.
>>>> Then I call her.  She slowly walks through to me and stops.  A night
>>> ago, in
>>>> security to board a jet back from Zurich, they wanted her collar off,
>>> too.
>>>> And so she wore nothing at all for this.  Andrea does the same with Kira,
>>>> except no cane of course in her case.  When they walk through to us,
>>> that?s
>>>> when the comments about good behavior begin, always coming from one to
>>> three
>>>> agents, strangely, as if this is something new to them.  It always has us
>>>> curious, what kind of a behavior range they must regularly encounter.
>>> I?d
>>>> be curious to hear what you guys have experienced with this too.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 13, 2019, at 8:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>>>>>      nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>>   1. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Lyn
>>> Gwizdak)
>>>>>   2. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>      (mike at michaelhingson.com)
>>>>>   3. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>      (Danielle Sykora)
>>>>>   4. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Dan Weiner)
>>>>>   5. differences between male and female guide dogs (Madison Martin)
>>>>>   6. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs (Sherry Gomes)
>>>>>   7. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>      (sheila leigland)
>>>>>   8. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs
>>>>>      (Elizabeth Campbell)
>>>>>   9. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs (sunshine)
>>>>> 10. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Bonnie
>>> Mosen)
>>>>> 11. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>>      failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Bonnie
>>> Mosen)
>>>>> 12. Fake service dogs: a positive story (Tara Briggs)
>>>>> 13. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs (Martine Abel)
>>>>> 14. Lab/goldens (Tracy Carcione)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:29:59 -0700
>>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Bonnie Mosen <bonnie at mosen.org>, Tracy Carcione
>>>>>      <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>      laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>      <CAHTx+LPOGdduY8wi5hzdtswBZ_aRo9Hvt7d1=
>>> V2jYG6YnSF4_g at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
>>>>> the
>>>>> issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you have
>>>>> to
>>>>> show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you go to
>>> public
>>>>> places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has the
>>> Service
>>>>> Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am always being
>>>>> asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding me on the bus.
>>>>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
>>>>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
>>> how
>>>>>> it works here in NZ.
>>>>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from The
>>>>>> Seeing Eye.
>>>>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
>>>>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
>>> Guide
>>>>>> Dog Federation.
>>>>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
>>> has
>>>>>> to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
>>>>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
>>> from
>>>>>> a US school isn't possible.
>>>>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that sort of
>>> dog.
>>>>>>  From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
>>>>>> recognized here.
>>>>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
>>> I'm
>>>>>> hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
>>>>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
>>>>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
>>>>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
>>> here,
>>>>>> and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with training
>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
>>>>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
>>>>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
>>> their
>>>>>> dog certified by the guide dog school.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>> laws
>>>>>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
>>>>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
>>>>>> US.
>>>>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm
>>> not
>>>>>> sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the guide dog
>>>>>> school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide dogs, the
>>>>>> school
>>>>>> would issue an ID, and that would be that.
>>>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs
>>>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>> laws
>>>>>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
>>>>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
>>> drivers
>>>>>> license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an ideal
>>> world,
>>>>>> businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that most
>>> businesses
>>>>>> are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I want owner
>>>>>> trainers
>>>>>> who have well-trained and well behaved service dogs to have the same
>>>>>> rights
>>>>>> of access as anybody else. And there are dogs that are trained by
>>>>>> fantastic
>>>>>> schools that turn into heathens once their owners get them home. How do
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> handle that?
>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
>>>>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws
>>>>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
>>>>>>> different proposals for reform:
>>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep-u&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115175129&sdata=W7c5%2Bu%2Fz2%2B88rnCd3Qx8Mq8xVTM7vxWWP4%2BPYmai0TU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115175129&sdata=XJCGTB4m3qjpoWqkUdAdwCupf%2BiqtSI4XxhxLRda6dY%3D&reserved=0>/International
>>>>>> Distinguished Fellow<
>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26btnK%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26oq%3Dburton%2Bblatt%2Binstitute%2Bharpur%26gs_l%3Dpsy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039.0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.B7g_g7X_Ck4&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115175129&sdata=Yp7HWya8AWrbPtuEMS3QtyF%2B0VGunfKw92ZOR8fKUEo%3D&reserved=0
>>>> ,
>>>>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
>>>>>>> Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115175129&sdata=RLG5DB51zWMW3xsS0N9B3d%2BpEprk0O4mBn6%2B9UGYgbc%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page
>>>>>>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115175129&sdata=S7YTn5exU0Usi%2FCH3EtUSC6%2FMJ4PFgBjd2vFjZ543q0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
>>>>>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of
>>>>>> Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any
>>>>>> transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:43:57 -0700
>>>>> From: <mike at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>      Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "'Lyn Gwizdak'" <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>,  "'Tracy Carcione'"
>>>>>      <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>      laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID: <005c01d52146$6a509170$3ef1b450$@michaelhingson.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding guide
>>>>> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
>>>>> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
>>> with
>>>>> any additional certification requirements to be able to take Alamo
>>>>> anywhere in the U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service animals.
>>>>> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
>>> NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
>>>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
>>>>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
>>>>> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you
>>>>> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you go
>>>>> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has
>>>>> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
>>>>> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
>>> me
>>>>> on the bus.
>>>>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
>>>>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
>>>>>> how it works here in NZ.
>>>>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
>>>>>> The Seeing Eye.
>>>>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
>>>>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
>>>>>> Guide Dog Federation.
>>>>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
>>>>>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
>>>>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
>>>>>> from a US school isn't possible.
>>>>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
>>>>>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
>>> sort
>>>>>> of dog.
>>>>>>  From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
>>>>>> recognized here.
>>>>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
>>>>>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
>>>>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
>>>>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
>>>>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
>>>>>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
>>> training
>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
>>>>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
>>>>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
>>>>>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
>>>>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
>>>>>> US.
>>>>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm
>>>>>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the
>>>>>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide
>>>>>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
>>>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs
>>>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
>>>>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
>>>>>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
>>>>>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
>>>>>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that
>>>>>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I
>>>>>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
>>>>>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
>>>>>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
>>>>>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
>>>>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws
>>>>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
>>>>>>> different proposals for reform:
>>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115185138&sdata=%2F%2FOjmq8NM0vuIGT7su9FAbJAaJYXgceZyLziCE%2BSxEQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115185138&sdata=mbcX56bKz7doKzGTn3zW3bPMtjmlS4oadbiWcrncfIk%3D&reserved=0>/International
>>>>>> Distinguished Fellow<
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115185138&sdata=824IAzd1zNrmH0QVXRbP1dLOSdsITNDmLZZ93AH4%2BLk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
>>>>>> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
>>>>>> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
>>>>>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
>>>>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
>>>>>>> Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115185138&sdata=6R7O%2FAnpASs45cHAU1HccCNIKOnEm903vIZ%2BWgjRhWc%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
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>>>>>>> om
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>>>>>> et
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>>>>>> com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:32:19 -0400
>>>>> From: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,     the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users"
>>>>>      <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>      laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID: <6CCA6DB2-BFC4-44F0-BD9B-E55032EB760A at gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>>>>>
>>>>> You really can not compare the US to countries like New Zealand or
>>>>> Australia. These countries as far as I know only have a few service dog
>>>>> programs. These programs, or atleast some of them, are willing to
>>> certify
>>>>> dogs trained elsewhere. Some other countries don't even recognize
>>> service
>>>>> dogs other than guide, hearing, or mobility dogs, which pretty much
>>> leave
>>>>> anyone needing medical alert or response out of luck. This is honestly
>>>>> probably one of the main reason why you may not see so many fake service
>>>>> dogs in other countries, but the people who truly need medical alert
>>> dogs
>>>>> are not the problem.
>>>>> There are literally dozens of service dog programs in the US. Some,
>>>>> despite being ADI certified, place a high percentage of some truly
>>>>> horribly behaved and trained dogs. Most service dog programs in general
>>>>> and definitely guide dog programs specifically are not going to certify
>>>>> dogs trained elsewhere.
>>>>> Danielle
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding guide
>>>>>> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
>>>>>> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
>>>>>> with any additional certification requirements to be able to take Alamo
>>>>>> anywhere in the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service animals.
>>>>>> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
>>> NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
>>>>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>> laws
>>>>>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
>>>>>> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you
>>>>>> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you
>>> go
>>>>>> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has
>>>>>> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
>>>>>> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
>>> me
>>>>>> on the bus.
>>>>>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
>>>>>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
>>>>>>> how it works here in NZ.
>>>>>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
>>>>>>> The Seeing Eye.
>>>>>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
>>>>>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
>>>>>>> Guide Dog Federation.
>>>>>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
>>>>>>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
>>>>>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
>>>>>>> from a US school isn't possible.
>>>>>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
>>>>>>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
>>> sort
>>>>>>> of dog.
>>>>>>>  From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
>>>>>>> recognized here.
>>>>>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
>>>>>>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
>>>>>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
>>>>>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
>>>>>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
>>>>>>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
>>> training
>>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
>>>>>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
>>>>>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
>>>>>>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>>> via
>>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>>>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
>>>>>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
>>>>>>> US.
>>>>>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm
>>>>>>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the
>>>>>>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide
>>>>>>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
>>>>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara
>>> Briggs
>>>>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
>>>>>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
>>>>>>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
>>>>>>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
>>>>>>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that
>>>>>>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I
>>>>>>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
>>>>>>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
>>>>>>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
>>>>>>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
>>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
>>>>>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws
>>>>>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
>>>>>>>> different proposals for reform:
>>>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115195146&sdata=VwrVe5jC%2FvIcURIcU%2F%2Fly5kpGCXvQkPKSUp9Zyqw4mU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
>>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115195146&sdata=7R03pyxhJe%2BKjJ1t18fO%2BFaxGdAzpElg5dwBj%2B4Uoh0%3D&reserved=0>/International
>>>>>>> Distinguished Fellow<
>>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115195146&sdata=%2FOQzenWRKlyt8MsUqi%2FXU2tQuVJTS%2FwFOGa8TKIw3SU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
>>>>>>> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
>>>>>>> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
>>>>>>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
>>>>>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
>>>>>>>> Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115195146&sdata=qeLrkUWsFXa6eGGRZmDN85SWqKZVRcInozpuI5IkvIQ%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page
>>>>>>>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115195146&sdata=yHB2UbpF60tljtF1AD%2BdeGKAc3%2FxNXjdCG0LpVz75pM%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> om
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>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fcarcione%2540access.n&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115205159&sdata=9rGEUQfvNf3CT%2FsWLu2ettRF1kb8nE4XW3AXquj3y%2FU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> et
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fgwizdaklyn%2540gmail&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115205159&sdata=96lx5tSXzJ3V1BeCdc%2F8ucorosy7rvo%2Bd%2BG1%2FF%2B2zVI%3D&reserved=0
>>> .
>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fmike%2540michaelhingson.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115205159&sdata=OgG1y3vQWcq%2FZAoEXro4m5V04SivobT5tXrgNx02psk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115205159&sdata=dSASLIHnMXIiRmTaeQvxqZKkNOJKyFMBn9Jkk%2F2Ety8%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fdsykora29%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115205159&sdata=bpc0nIEhDUyd1C4tlDaq48FOAKI4sVnf7dae%2B62d2Mk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:59:56 -0400
>>>>> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>> To: Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>      laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID: <8b4fffff-c884-de80-cdf9-0f2c0a4197cc at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>> quick question, bonny, what is the process like if you have a U.S. dog
>>>>> and you are certified, do they do something to test your training or the
>>>>> dog's training or is the fact that you have a dog from a US school,
>>>>> member of the International Guide Dog federation, enough to have them
>>>>> certify you?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/12/2019 2:32 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
>>>>>> You really can not compare the US to countries like New Zealand or
>>>>>> Australia. These countries as far as I know only have a few service dog
>>>>>> programs. These programs, or atleast some of them, are willing to
>>> certify
>>>>>> dogs trained elsewhere. Some other countries don't even recognize
>>> service
>>>>>> dogs other than guide, hearing, or mobility dogs, which pretty much
>>> leave
>>>>>> anyone needing medical alert or response out of luck. This is honestly
>>>>>> probably one of the main reason why you may not see so many fake
>>> service
>>>>>> dogs in other countries, but the people who truly need medical alert
>>> dogs
>>>>>> are not the problem.
>>>>>> There are literally dozens of service dog programs in the US. Some,
>>>>>> despite being ADI certified, place a high percentage of some truly
>>>>>> horribly behaved and trained dogs. Most service dog programs in general
>>>>>> and definitely guide dog programs specifically are not going to certify
>>>>>> dogs trained elsewhere.
>>>>>> Danielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding
>>> guide
>>>>>>> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
>>>>>>> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
>>>>>>> with any additional certification requirements to be able to take
>>> Alamo
>>>>>>> anywhere in the U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service
>>> animals.
>>>>>>> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
>>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
>>>>>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>> laws
>>>>>>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to
>>> address
>>>>>>> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do
>>> you
>>>>>>> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you
>>> go
>>>>>>> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog
>>> has
>>>>>>> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
>>>>>>> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
>>>>>>> me on the bus.
>>>>>>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
>>>>>>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
>>>>>>>> how it works here in NZ.
>>>>>>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
>>>>>>>> The Seeing Eye.
>>>>>>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
>>>>>>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
>>>>>>>> Guide Dog Federation.
>>>>>>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
>>>>>>>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
>>>>>>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
>>>>>>>> from a US school isn't possible.
>>>>>>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
>>>>>>>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
>>>>>>>> sort of dog.
>>>>>>>>  From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
>>>>>>>> recognized here.
>>>>>>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
>>>>>>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
>>>>>>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
>>>>>>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
>>>>>>>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
>>>>>>>> training issues.
>>>>>>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train
>>> with
>>>>>>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
>>>>>>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
>>>>>>>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>>> via
>>>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
>>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>>>>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different
>>> in
>>>>>>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in
>>> the
>>>>>>>> US.
>>>>>>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm
>>>>>>>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the
>>>>>>>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide
>>>>>>>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
>>>>>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara
>>> Briggs
>>>>>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is
>>> a
>>>>>>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically
>>> argues
>>>>>>>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
>>>>>>>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
>>>>>>>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think
>>> that
>>>>>>>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these
>>> I
>>>>>>>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
>>>>>>>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
>>>>>>>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
>>>>>>>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
>>>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
>>>>>>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws
>>>>>>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
>>>>>>>>> different proposals for reform:
>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115205159&sdata=18XbLqIzjgCM8ceHc1RbmuZWZoMM1gS22cR9Ys%2BVfIw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
>>>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=aOFvYkGxKMqYNwy%2FYjgjv1aOUFAtaQ%2BgjcLLRhKWF5Y%3D&reserved=0>/International
>>>>>>>> Distinguished Fellow<
>>>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=TQXv6fz%2FEOsEcHTNb3Wc6kNB55g9VcDnMXO%2F3eSZ9hM%3D&reserved=0
>>> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
>>> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
>>> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
>>>>>>>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
>>>>>>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
>>>>>>>>> Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=GpWwOlm0ZjemPkztMIJyPO71ewvRDzPjp1YEJcGWZ1I%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page
>>>>>>>>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=bKbt3DiVfpkYB8uYlaf%2FOjFYfmr2%2BSurzDW8mT7njWk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
>>>>>>>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The University
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>>> any
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>>> of
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>>>>>>>>> om
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>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fcarcione%2540access.n&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=B4z1DbmTlu70MnTTh%2FjT6y0AcSTmW8rINh0zUu4O8vA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>> et
>>>>>>>>
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>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fbonnie%2540mosen.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=fw9opa5ddeDDYXZvlvkTRlyqgutolaFAxBZSVLZcpv8%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fgwizdaklyn%2540gmail&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=Yt04wu6gPta07I8HX3h2TtpzFacizYE3eGBUHVglrpw%3D&reserved=0.
>>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fmike%2540michaelhingson.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115215172&sdata=LNWyMyrFA%2BU%2BAuVPC9y5eAu3CXDe5aVpjINRJ3OFXs0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fdsykora29%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=GAUig5ezTD6QKbpY4hOV35N8NB4rVg9QvjFmwwmCGco%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=HyOPduVjUdnLC7mDRaZwN5GJDwDmeNAIYwdX9VaROHM%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fdcwein%2540dcwein.cnc.net&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=68tYgfj4pI2VgPwB5SXTtBv5YGDpzylwa9M8XehdZnw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 5
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 15:53:12 -0500
>>>>> From: "Madison Martin" <maddymartin at mymts.net>
>>>>> To: <friends at guidedogs.groups.io>, <GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com>,
>>>>>      <chat at guidedogusersinc.org>, "'NAGDU Mailing List,      the
>>> National
>>>>>      Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] differences between male and female guide dogs
>>>>> Message-ID: <000001d52160$da9b5e50$8fd21af0$@mymts.net>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I was just wondering out of curiosity for those of you who have had both
>>>>> male and female dogs as guide dogs what differences (other then size)
>>> have
>>>>> you noticed between the two genders? Please be 100% honest. If you want
>>> to
>>>>> write me privately then go ahead. I've only ever lived with female dogs
>>> so
>>>>> I
>>>>> can't comment. Look forward to hearing back from you guys with your
>>>>> thoughts! Thanks
>>>>> Madison
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 6
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:27:10 +0000
>>>>> From: Sherry Gomes <sherry.gomes at outlook.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,     the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users"
>>>>>      <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] differences between male and female guide dogs
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>      <
>>> CY4PR02MB2360A024B894A0F5FB674A9F86EC0 at CY4PR02MB2360.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> I've had two male dogs and several females, and to me, there isn't any
>>>>> specific difference, not temperament or work style or anything like
>>> that.
>>>>> Interestingly, the most stubborn dog I ever had was a male, and the
>>>>> softest gentlest dog I ever had was a male. The males I had weren't
>>>>> particularly large either, one was about 22 inches and the other was 23
>>>>> inches. I would be happy with either gender in my next dog.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Madison Martin via
>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 2:53 PM
>>>>> To: friends at guidedogs.groups.io; GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com;
>>>>> chat at guidedogusersinc.org; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>>> Association
>>>>> of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Madison Martin <maddymartin at mymts.net>
>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] differences between male and female guide dogs
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I was just wondering out of curiosity for those of you who have had both
>>>>> male and female dogs as guide dogs what differences (other then size)
>>> have
>>>>> you noticed between the two genders? Please be 100% honest. If you want
>>> to
>>>>> write me privately then go ahead. I've only ever lived with female dogs
>>> so
>>>>> I can't comment. Look forward to hearing back from you guys with your
>>>>> thoughts! Thanks Madison
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=HyOPduVjUdnLC7mDRaZwN5GJDwDmeNAIYwdX9VaROHM%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fsherry.gomes%2540outlook.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=9E7T1nO%2FVBHPypfFePG4AmxK%2Bgq9FqBFwMYrwpUNjcA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 7
>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:37:06 -0600
>>>>> From: sheila leigland <sheila.leigland at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>      laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>> Message-ID: <5e83f2d8-31a1-c9cb-692d-c91de603a6b1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael I'm in complete agreement with you. There are enough laws in
>>> place
>>>>>> On 6/12/2019 11:43 AM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU wrote:
>>>>>> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding guide
>>>>>> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
>>>>>> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
>>>>>> with any additional certification requirements to be able to take Alamo
>>>>>> anywhere in the U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service animals.
>>>>>> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
>>> NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
>>>>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>> laws
>>>>>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
>>>>>> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you
>>>>>> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you
>>> go
>>>>>> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has
>>>>>> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
>>>>>> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
>>> me
>>>>>> on the bus.
>>>>>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
>>>>>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
>>>>>>> how it works here in NZ.
>>>>>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
>>>>>>> The Seeing Eye.
>>>>>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
>>>>>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
>>>>>>> Guide Dog Federation.
>>>>>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
>>>>>>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
>>>>>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
>>>>>>> from a US school isn't possible.
>>>>>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
>>>>>>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
>>> sort
>>>>>>> of dog.
>>>>>>>  From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
>>>>>>> recognized here.
>>>>>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
>>>>>>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
>>>>>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
>>>>>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
>>>>>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
>>>>>>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
>>> training
>>>>>>> issues.
>>>>>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
>>>>>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
>>>>>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
>>>>>>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>>> via
>>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>>>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
>>>>>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
>>>>>>> US.
>>>>>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches.  I'm
>>>>>>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal".  It seems to me that the
>>>>>>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition.  So, for guide
>>>>>>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
>>>>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara
>>> Briggs
>>>>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
>>>>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
>>>>>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
>>>>>>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
>>>>>>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
>>>>>>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that
>>>>>>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I
>>>>>>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
>>>>>>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
>>>>>>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
>>>>>>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
>>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
>>>>>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia.  The wording of the laws
>>>>>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
>>>>>>>> different proposals for reform:
>>>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbs.com.au%2Fnews%2Finsight%2Faustralia-s-laws-failing-to-keep&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=VmWzK93cHn9lgZcW9jmT0N9pWUGF%2F%2FmRnJAUpfhram4%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
>>>>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
>>>>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
>>>>>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fulbright.org.au%2Fcurrent-scholars%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=p68douF4xzC6OxU0b9V1M3O7YMt0IjkDAcq9m7qGiC4%3D&reserved=0>/International
>>>>>>> Distinguished Fellow<
>>>>>>>
>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Fsearch%3Fsource%3Dhp%26ei%3DdosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw%26q&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=U9tkLq1a0NB8Gi%2BY8KRcMp1u1U6bsrI1HStJUYPhT5g%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
>>>>>>> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
>>>>>>> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
>>>>>>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
>>>>>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
>>>>>>>> Senior Lecturer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland
>>>>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
>>>>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
>>>>>>>> Profile<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.uq.edu.au%2Fpaul-harpur&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=zgOr1cxPlBhsv5lFT9b%2Fcj4NsfcbYvgAC6TbOhG4t0g%3D&reserved=0>/Google Citation Page
>>>>>>>> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com.au%2Fcitations%3Fuser%3D6Y47my0AAAAJ%26hl%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115225176&sdata=Ir%2BqDYFTOwfrsntVxHBFY%2BnyQjzt7KntnYvsdui8CjU%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
>>>>>>>>
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>>> .
>>>>>>> com
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fmike%2540michaelhingson.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115235184&sdata=JvEqBCbv%2B4IY54ejQuisgUd7PSJxsdFueVVsVnK7bGk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fnagdu_nfbnet.org%2Fsheila.leigland%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C745d92d31bfa4e7a5f6208d6f1893f39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636961969115235184&sdata=f%2FrlgTDj3wkLFcG6E8fKRvhRbnAS%2BIm2KpI9%2BURT2QA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 8
>>>>> Da
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 171, Issue 14
>> **************************************
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