[NAGDU] Crates?

[Marie Villaneda]

I’m new to doing this so hopefully this is how??
I’m looking for a travel crate that folds down smaller than just folding flat. I found one at Walmart that folds into a disc shape, but they didn’t have one in store that was big enough for my 90 pound st Pierre. Anyone know A reasonably priced compact crate that would be big enough?

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 11, 2019, at 8:01 AM, "nagdu-request at nfbnet.org" <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>    nagdu at nfbnet.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>      (Tracy Carcione)
>   2. Re: Questions from a Potential Guide Dog User (Elise Berkley)
>   3. Re: Questions from a Potential Guide Dog User (Cindy Ray)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 14:46:41 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>    Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
> Message-ID: <006b01d50760$b56556f0$203004d0$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi Sandra.
> I've had 7 dogs now, and most of them have enjoyed going new places.  Get
> out of that old rut, oh yeah!  So long as they don't sense that I feel
> anxious or lost, they're very happy to see new places.  Like others have
> said, just let the trainers know you enjoy travel and need a dog who will
> enjoy it, too.  
> 
> One of the things about having a dog is you have to get used to people
> talking about dogs wherever you go.  Sometimes they talk to each other, and
> sometimes to me.  Sometimes they tell me things my dog has already told me,
> like we're at some steps.  Other times, they expect the dog to do
> everything, including reading traffic signals.  And they almost always think
> the dog is bigger than he actually is, and that he won't fit somewhere, when
> really he can fit a lot of places.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Gayer via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2019 4:44 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Sandra Gayer
> Subject: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
> guide dog owners.
> 
> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
> 
> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
> used to?
> 
> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
> environments?
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
> cane.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
> 
> -- 
> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
> 
> Soprano Singer
> www.sandragayer.com
> 
> Broadcast Presenter
> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
> 
> Actor
> www.visablepeople.com
> 
> Voiceover Artist
> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 14:18:47 -0700
> From: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a Potential Guide Dog User
> Message-ID:
>    <CAJu6SLOfNTAVhxhVYxVqOPqOQt5jhhOne99kTJED69zjZTu3NQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
>> On 5/10/19, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>>    nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>    nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>    nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 7 (Peter Wolf)
>>   2. Re: Sad Eyes (Elise Berkley)
>>   3. Re: Intro New Dog (Tracy Carcione) (Elise Berkley)
>>   4. Questions from a potential future guide dog user. (Sandra Gayer)
>>   5. Re: Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>      (Aleeha Dudley)
>>   6. Re: Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>      (Julie Johnson)
>>   7. Re: Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>      (Nimer Jaber)
>>   8. Does anyone have this (service dog) information? (Peter Wolf)
>>   9. Re: Does anyone have this (service dog) information?
>>      (Danielle Sykora)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 06:18:06 -0700
>> From: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 7
>> Message-ID: <F6E7FB57-B309-4EFB-95F1-6BEA03BFD23C at wolfskills.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hi Jess,
>> 
>> Congratulations!
>> Peter
>>> On May 8, 2019, at 5:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>>> 
>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>>>    nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>    nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>    nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>  1. Intro New Dog (searsdiaz at gmail.com)
>>>  2. Re: Intro New Dog (Madison Martin)
>>>  3. Sad Eyes (Elise Berkley)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 15:48:45 -0400
>>> From: <searsdiaz at gmail.com>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>> Message-ID: <02c301d5050d$e2166590$a64330b0$@gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I thought I would stop by to introduce my first Seeing Eye dog Shannon.
>>> I'm
>>> in class right now. She is a 2 year old half golden/cross. She is about
>>> 56.5
>>> lbs. To say I am completely sold and impressed with Seeing Eye's training
>>> is
>>> an understatement. Nothing but amazing and positive training methods
>>> without
>>> food which is what I wanted. I've had 2 previous guides from other
>>> schools
>>> and the food method for me just is not something I want to contend with
>>> any
>>> longer. Thanks for reading.
>>> 
>>> Jess
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 20:28:33 -0500
>>> From: "Madison Martin" <maddymartin at mymts.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>    Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>> Message-ID: <001501d5053d$5a3c1a90$0eb44fb0$@mymts.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>> 
>>> Hi Jessica,
>>> Congrads on your new guide!! What's her temperament like so far? Look
>>> forward to hearing more about you and your new guide! Take care,
>>> Madison
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Diaz
>>> via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: May-07-19 2:49 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: searsdiaz at gmail.com
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I thought I would stop by to introduce my first Seeing Eye dog Shannon.
>>> I'm
>>> in class right now. She is a 2 year old half golden/cross. She is about
>>> 56.5
>>> lbs. To say I am completely sold and impressed with Seeing Eye's training
>>> is
>>> an understatement. Nothing but amazing and positive training methods
>>> without
>>> food which is what I wanted. I've had 2 previous guides from other
>>> schools
>>> and the food method for me just is not something I want to contend with
>>> any
>>> longer. Thanks for reading.
>>> 
>>> Jess
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/maddymartin%40mymts.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 20:13:15 -0700
>>> From: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>>> To: nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Sad Eyes
>>> Message-ID:
>>>    <CAJu6SLOEHUPuWbFesyaXfqXdnEmxt-rP0VaC3nfcW=DW0M1pCQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>> 
>>> Hello, listers.
>>> I always wondered why do labs go into "sad eyes" mode. I understand
>>> sometime their eyes are like big, brown buttons and other times, they
>>> have some white in them, giving them a sad look. Can anyone broaden my
>>> knowledge of this? Thanks.
>>> Elise and Becky
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 7
>>> *************************************
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 07:10:29 -0700
>> From: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Sad Eyes
>> Message-ID:
>>    <CAJu6SLOt1Cy0Tf6Eozw66vtP9n9Tw1Hc5d8BCxc4NmfBScT2Rw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>>> On 5/9/19, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>>>    nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>    nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>    nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>   1. Re: Sad Eyes (dchandler001 at carolina.rr.com)
>>>   2. Re: Intro New Dog (Tracy Carcione)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 14:04:01 +0000
>>> From: <dchandler001 at carolina.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>    <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Sad Eyes
>>> Message-ID: <20190508140401.VQCXW.145451.root at dnvrco-web27>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>> 
>>> I have a lab golden cross and she's not at all overweight but her face has
>>> a
>>> somewhat jowly look.  I think some people think this makes the dog look
>>> sad.
>>> She's very happy nevertheless.
>>> Deb and Tally
>>> ---- Elise Berkley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello, listers.
>>>> I always wondered why do labs go into "sad eyes" mode. I understand
>>>> sometime their eyes are like big, brown buttons and other times, they
>>>> have some white in them, giving them a sad look. Can anyone broaden my
>>>> knowledge of this? Thanks.
>>>> Elise and Becky
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dchandler001%40carolina.rr.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 10:45:55 -0400
>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>    Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>> Message-ID: <011001d505ac$be18d570$3a4a8050$@access.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>> 
>>> Hi Jess.
>>> Congratulations!  Bet she's really cute.  Is she black or yellow?  My
>>> cross
>>> is yellow--a big blond.
>>> Good luck in class.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Diaz
>>> via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 3:49 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: searsdiaz at gmail.com
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I thought I would stop by to introduce my first Seeing Eye dog Shannon.
>>> I'm
>>> in class right now. She is a 2 year old half golden/cross. She is about
>>> 56.5
>>> lbs. To say I am completely sold and impressed with Seeing Eye's training
>>> is
>>> an understatement. Nothing but amazing and positive training methods
>>> without
>>> food which is what I wanted. I've had 2 previous guides from other
>>> schools
>>> and the food method for me just is not something I want to contend with
>>> any
>>> longer. Thanks for reading.
>>> 
>>> Jess
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 8
>>> *************************************
>>> 
>> Thanks, Chandler.
>> Elise and Becky
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 07:16:43 -0700
>> From: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog (Tracy Carcione)
>> Message-ID:
>>    <CAJu6SLNqNrw4ZNS-zR5pW2m2qUKc+SfD4K2VQci0eqL+z7REmA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> Hello, Tracy.
>> I hope the best for you and Shannon. Yes, I will agree, the food
>> reinforcement is hard to break; but, I have had Becky for 4 years now,
>> and the trend has been broken. She is good with love when she does
>> something good. Take care and have fun!
>> Elise and Becky
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 21:43:53 +0100
>> From: Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>> Message-ID:
>>    <CAJcYH6_x_yAG+g1HjCMQbha9OqrTJ8+kknDM_GpTxAYrrMPw6A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>> guide dog owners.
>> 
>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>> 
>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>> used to?
>> 
>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>> environments?
>> 
>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>> cane.
>> 
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>> Very best wishes,
>> Sandra.
>> 
>> --
>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>> 
>> Soprano Singer
>> www.sandragayer.com
>> 
>> Broadcast Presenter
>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>> 
>> Actor
>> www.visablepeople.com
>> 
>> Voiceover Artist
>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 15:58:39 -0500
>> From: Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>    <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>> Message-ID: <BAB1C876-7713-4D9F-AD0D-6384490D1780 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Hi Sandra,
>> I have been using a guide dog for almost 5 years now and am also a
>> proficient cane user. Here are some things I?ve ound
>> First, if I am in a situation where I cannot tell what is in front of me and
>> my dog has stopped moving because they can?t find a way around, I carry a
>> small telescoping cane that I can use to figure out what is in our way.
>> Better my cane be broken than my face. :)
>> I learned very quickly to feel under my feet for the elevation changes and
>> listen for openings in walls or other landmarks. The dog will also learn to
>> recognize familiar turns or landmarks and indicate them with a turn of the
>> head or by pausing.
>> While dogs enjoy routine, there are many dogs that are adaptable to new
>> situations and new routes. My dog is one of these dogs. She loves new areas
>> and situations, and would be very happy if we travelled a lot. Some dogs?
>> routines are, for lack of a better phrase, the lack of routine, if that
>> makes sense.
>> I hope this helps with some of your concerns.
>> Aleeha Dudley
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2019, at 3:43 PM, Sandra Gayer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>>> guide dog owners.
>>> 
>>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>>> 
>>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>>> used to?
>>> 
>>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>>> environments?
>>> 
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>>> cane.
>>> 
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>> Very best wishes,
>>> Sandra.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>> 
>>> Soprano Singer
>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>> 
>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>>> 
>>> Actor
>>> www.visablepeople.com
>>> 
>>> Voiceover Artist
>>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 16:28:52 -0500
>> From: "Julie Johnson" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>    <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>> Message-ID: <F6E9DC2B861E43ACA300AB2D40A7BD20 at JuliePC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>    reply-type=original
>> 
>> My .02, please know this is just me and everyone has different experiences.
>> 
>> Yes, the first time I walked with a dog I did feel a bit untethered.  It was
>> 
>> a bit exhilarating and disorienting at the same time.  I was used to a cane
>> 
>> and the info I got from contact with the environment.  that was gone and I
>> didn't yet have the experience of recognizing what the dog was indicating.
>> It didn't last long.  The dog will indicate the edge of the street, turns,
>> frequently used turns/doors/etc.  You can pattern the dog to target places
>> you want or teach the dog to take you to frequently used items like soda
>> machines/mailboxes etc.
>> 
>> You will still get all the same tactile information of dips, rises and
>> textures that you are used to now.  You will just need to get that info from
>> 
>> your feet instead of the cane.  I still follow walls, especially in places
>> like malls or large hotels, but I do it by sound instead of contact with a
>> cane.   The advantage of the dog is that you can teach the dog to say find
>> the elevator.  So maybe the first time in a large hotel you follow the wall
>> 
>> around to the other side of the lobby to get to the elevator, but once
>> you're there, you can reinforce this is a great place to be so the dog will
>> 
>> then be able to take you straight across the lobby directly to the elevator.
>> 
>> Actually most dogs are probably going to already know to find elevators.  I
>> 
>> live in a tiny town and my dogs don't often see elevators, so when we come
>> across them, I typically have to show them what to do the first time in a
>> new place.  Anyway I hope you will understand the idea and how it can apply
>> 
>> to lots of other situations.
>> 
>> If there is no clear path my dogs will generally stop and refuse to go
>> forward.  My older dog will suggest an alternate route from a fair distance
>> 
>> back, but I usually have no clue what's ahead and insist we go forward,
>> which ends in doubling back and taking the turn he previously suggested.
>> When the dog stops you will investigate first with a foot, then a hand to
>> check for an overhang if needed.  Carrying a folding cane to check things
>> out if a foot or hand doesn't work is also an option.  Historically there
>> have been diverse opinions about using a cane and dog together on a
>> continual basis.  Some opinions are that if your using a dog you should
>> never need a cane again.  Others use a cane and dog together nearly all the
>> 
>> time.  From what I can tell the cane and dog simultaneous users live in
>> places where the pathways are very uneven and unpredictable like in very old
>> 
>> cities or developing countries.  If it makes you feel more secure to carry a
>> 
>> folding cane and getting it out when you don't understand what the dog is
>> indicating, then I say go for it.
>> 
>> On routine...yes, dogs need routine, but that doesn't mean you have to go to
>> 
>> the same places, in the same order every day.  Different dogs will need
>> different levels of routine, just like people.  Some dogs are more flexible
>> 
>> than others.  I think the most important part of a routine is feeding and
>> relieving, but even that can vary somewhat.  Let your program know about
>> your travels and lifestyle and they should be able to find a dog that will
>> thrive in that environment.
>> 
>> HTH and welcome to the list!
>> Julie
>> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
>> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
>> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sandra Gayer via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2019 3:43 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Sandra Gayer
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>> guide dog owners.
>> 
>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>> 
>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>> used to?
>> 
>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>> environments?
>> 
>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>> cane.
>> 
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>> Very best wishes,
>> Sandra.
>> 
>> --
>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>> 
>> Soprano Singer
>> www.sandragayer.com
>> 
>> Broadcast Presenter
>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>> 
>> Actor
>> www.visablepeople.com
>> 
>> Voiceover Artist
>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2265 / Virus Database: 4365/15297 - Release Date: 07/04/18
>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 15:01:02 -0700
>> From: Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>    <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>> Message-ID:
>>    <CAF2O2CyXHAXKx2FLDR4k_esU6odprokE2KqGr2a9w_Lhry41kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Please find my responses below.
>> 
>> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 1:45 PM Sandra Gayer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>>> guide dog owners.
>>> 
>> Yeur questions are welcome, so please ask. It is important to learn what
>> you can in order to discover whether this lifestyle is right for you. No
>> need for apologies, and you can't ask a dim question.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>>> 
>> If there is not a clear route, the dog will zigzag until they get through.
>> If there is absolutely no way through, they will stop generally, and they
>> will expect input from you to determine what to do. they may try to turn
>> around. This depends on the situation and the dog, and how the dog was
>> trained to handle these things, or if it was at all.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>>> used to?
>>> 
>> Some dogs walk in the center. Some hug the right edge, and many hug the
>> left edge. To answer your question, I don't find it disorienting at all.
>> But this depends on you, and the queues you are used to using to navigate
>> your environment. Let me try to explain a bit better:
>> 
>> When i was growing up, I did not know about canes, I hated canes when I
>> discovered them, and made it a point to lose them, throw them, and sell
>> them to others to use as they wished. When i walked, I just walked. I did
>> not trail, I just walked. I paid a lot of attention to sounds, textures,
>> smells, etc while walking. I was able to learn a lot from echo location
>> about my environment... I was even able to ride a bike using echo location
>> and my form of navigation. I did trip and fall, I am not and was not
>> superman, but I got up and kept going.
>> 
>> This leads me to the question at hand. the way I have always navigated lent
>> itself well to dog travel. Why? because the skills of environmental
>> observation which I used to get around are exactly the skills an individual
>> develops and uses for guide dog travel. This is a struggle for individuals
>> who learned to trail, who learned routes by counting turns or whatever, and
>> who did not learn to generalize routes or environmental information. this
>> is a huge problem with Orientation and Mobility today, particularly many
>> sighted instructors. It is important to not learn routes. It is important
>> to learn concepts of navigation.
>> 
>> Anyway, the answer to your question is probably yes, you may be disorinted
>> at first. Dogs navigate around many of the environmental clues that you may
>> be used to using. However as you build your confidence and proficiency, you
>> will begin utilizing different clues. Sounds, elevation changes, smells,
>> the feel of the ground under your feet, time/distance, and other clues,
>> along with possibly GPS aids  will become your friend. And your dog will be
>> your ally in the world of navigating the world. With the enhanced skills
>> and your dog's training, you will do well.
>> 
>> I do trail sometimes, even now, particularly when trying to find a tight
>> turn or an entrance, but most of the time, telling my dog "left left" or
>> right right" followed with a hand motion and rarely, a bit of persuasion
>> with my voice and a leash tug suffices to make those turns and find those
>> entrances.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>>> environments?
>>> 
>> in my experience with dog handling, owners who state that their dogs thrive
>> on a routine really are saying that they themselves are resistant to
>> change, and thrive on routine.  I am not minimizng anyone else's
>> experiences, or at least I am not trying to. In my experience though, the
>> dog follows your lead. if you are relaxed, calm, and alive, your dog will
>> be relaxed even if you are walking into a crazy situation or place. if you
>> are not... well, your dog won't be either.
>> 
>> Some things to think about would be a routine for deeding... dogs loooooove
>> food, or at least many do. A routine for taking the dog out would be
>> helpful as well. And a routine or habit, even if it is not at the exact
>> time each day, of playing with your dog, massaging your dog, bonding with
>> your dog, grooming your dog is very important. Your dog is a living being,
>> not something you can put aside and ignore whenever you feel like it just
>> so that you can sing and act. Still, with the proper planning and
>> attention, your dog will be just fine.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>>> cane.
>>> 
>> In rare situations, I I'll use a cane. I almost always carry a cane with me
>> just in case I need it, just in case my dog gets injured. I will never
>> allow myself to be stuck in a situation I cannot get out of. But it isn't
>> usually to detect cracks or elevation changes. those things are usually
>> detectable through the harness handle. If you have a dog with a good pull,
>> and you spend time reading the dog's movements and learning to dance with
>> your dog, you will know and feel even slight movements and indications.
>> Your dog will read you too, and they will pick up on the fact that they may
>> need to slow slightly at elevation changes or something. At first, you may
>> be stumbling and it may be frustrating. You may even take a fall. but
>> things do get better, a lot better.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>> 
>> Please reach out with any further questions.
>> 
>>> Very best wishes,
>>> Sandra.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>> 
>>> Soprano Singer
>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>> 
>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>>> 
>>> Actor
>>> www.visablepeople.com
>>> 
>>> Voiceover Artist
>>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Best,
>> 
>> Nimer Jaber
>> 
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
>> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>> 
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> 
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>> 
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>> 
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
>> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>> you, and have a great day!
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 17:05:28 -0700
>> From: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>    <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Does anyone have this (service dog) information?
>> Message-ID: <628273B6-B6CB-4B94-B697-49C680FBC5BD at wolfskills.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> We?re going back over to Europe soon.  We?ve had successful experiences
>> there.
>> 
>> As you know, Metukah works with my vision.  That?s obvious because of my
>> cane and gear.   But as I?ve mentioned, my wife also teams with a working
>> dog.  But it?s for head injury/navigation issues, not vision.  We recently
>> heard that in Europe, someone had an access issue (in a couple of locations)
>> where they were told their dog?s vest had ?the wrong color?.  I?ve never
>> heard of this, except recently.  In eight working team years, none of us
>> have had that issue here, or when we?ve travelled.  At least not yet.
>> Frankly, it?s all about the working relationship, not a vest, to us.  We
>> wouldn?t care if changing colors helped us out there, where there is a
>> narrower access window than we have here.  (For example, service or not,
>> we?ll pay a ?dog fee? for hotels.  However, many of them are dog friendly.
>> Here in the US because of ?pet? behavior, we only tell a hotel we?re coming
>> with a working dog *after* being assigned a clean room, so we don?t get a
>> room that dogs have misbehaved in).   Anyhow, do any of you know about this,
>> and what ?color? seems to be more culturally acceptable over there in the
>> EU, or specific counries within it?  We?re going to Switzerland, Italy, and
>> possibly France and Germany on the back end.  I would never put up with this
>> here, but rules are different over there.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Peter
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 21:26:28 -0400
>> From: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>    <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Does anyone have this (service dog) information?
>> Message-ID: <F820777A-3413-4AF3-B4D7-535DF3EF38DC at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> This isn't really answering your question, but I was just told less than a
>> week ago that my dog wasn't a service dog because her vest wasn't a specific
>> color, in the US. Well she doesn't wear a vest at all if we are being
>> technical. I know a service dog handler with a psychiatric service dog who
>> spent a semester in Italy last year and she didn't run into any situation
>> where the color of the vest was brought up.
>> You might find that if a particular country has service dogs primarily from
>> one program, people might be more familiar with whatever color that program
>> uses.
>> Danielle
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2019, at 8:05 PM, Peter Wolf via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> We?re going back over to Europe soon.  We?ve had successful experiences
>>> there.
>>> 
>>> As you know, Metukah works with my vision.  That?s obvious because of my
>>> cane and gear.   But as I?ve mentioned, my wife also teams with a working
>>> dog.  But it?s for head injury/navigation issues, not vision.  We recently
>>> heard that in Europe, someone had an access issue (in a couple of
>>> locations) where they were told their dog?s vest had ?the wrong color?.
>>> I?ve never heard of this, except recently.  In eight working team years,
>>> none of us have had that issue here, or when we?ve travelled.  At least
>>> not yet.  Frankly, it?s all about the working relationship, not a vest, to
>>> us.  We wouldn?t care if changing colors helped us out there, where there
>>> is a narrower access window than we have here.  (For example, service or
>>> not, we?ll pay a ?dog fee? for hotels.  However, many of them are dog
>>> friendly.  Here in the US because of ?pet? behavior, we only tell a hotel
>>> we?re coming with a working dog *after* being assigned a clean room, so we
>>> don?t get a room that dogs have misbehaved in).   Anyhow, do any of you
>>> know about this, and what ?color? seems to be more culturally acceptable
>>> over there in the EU, or specific counries within it?  We?re going to
>>> Switzerland, Italy, and possibly France and Germany on the back end.  I
>>> would never put up with this here, but rules are different over there.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Peter
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 9
>> *************************************
>> 
> Hello, Sandra.
> I have had my guide dog for 4 years now and, believe it or not, I was
> visually impaired for 15 years before I decided to get a guide. When I
> first got her, I was so nervous because I felt like my travel control
> was out of my hands and in this animal. But, the way they train them,
> and most importantly the bond you will grow with your guide, makes it
> really pleasurable. I wanted to add that whenever we come to a decline
> in the sidewalk, incline, a bump in the sidewalk, and even obstacles
> on the walk (sticks, piles of leaves, etc.), Becky will stop. When she
> stops, I drag my foot from straight out and pull it back in to me.
> This way, I can feel what is in front of us. If I don't feel anything,
> I use my cane, feel what is in front of us, and give her the "forward"
> command to keep going. She will walk us around the obstacle, and we
> are on our way. Becky will even stop and "show" me if there are
> low-hanging branches branches from a tree. It took quite a while for
> me to become comfortable with all of this, but I can travel faster,
> and don't feel vulnerable when I travel.
> Take your time to make this decision for your life. Take care and keep
> us updated on your decisions.
> Elise and Becky
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 17:59:21 -0500
> From: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>    <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a Potential Guide Dog User
> Message-ID: <57D7B25A-7952-430F-A93C-FBDCA9ACC6E4 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Iam not seeing anything in the below message. Can you resend, Ms. Berkley? Sorry if I?ve spelled you wrong.
> 
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On May 10, 2019, at 4:18 PM, Elise Berkley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 5/10/19, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>>>   nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>   nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>   nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>  1. Re: NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 7 (Peter Wolf)
>>>  2. Re: Sad Eyes (Elise Berkley)
>>>  3. Re: Intro New Dog (Tracy Carcione) (Elise Berkley)
>>>  4. Questions from a potential future guide dog user. (Sandra Gayer)
>>>  5. Re: Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>>     (Aleeha Dudley)
>>>  6. Re: Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>>     (Julie Johnson)
>>>  7. Re: Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>>     (Nimer Jaber)
>>>  8. Does anyone have this (service dog) information? (Peter Wolf)
>>>  9. Re: Does anyone have this (service dog) information?
>>>     (Danielle Sykora)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 06:18:06 -0700
>>> From: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 7
>>> Message-ID: <F6E7FB57-B309-4EFB-95F1-6BEA03BFD23C at wolfskills.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>> 
>>> Hi Jess,
>>> 
>>> Congratulations!
>>> Peter
>>>> On May 8, 2019, at 5:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>>>>   nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>   nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>   nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Intro New Dog (searsdiaz at gmail.com)
>>>> 2. Re: Intro New Dog (Madison Martin)
>>>> 3. Sad Eyes (Elise Berkley)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 15:48:45 -0400
>>>> From: <searsdiaz at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>>> Message-ID: <02c301d5050d$e2166590$a64330b0$@gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> I thought I would stop by to introduce my first Seeing Eye dog Shannon.
>>>> I'm
>>>> in class right now. She is a 2 year old half golden/cross. She is about
>>>> 56.5
>>>> lbs. To say I am completely sold and impressed with Seeing Eye's training
>>>> is
>>>> an understatement. Nothing but amazing and positive training methods
>>>> without
>>>> food which is what I wanted. I've had 2 previous guides from other
>>>> schools
>>>> and the food method for me just is not something I want to contend with
>>>> any
>>>> longer. Thanks for reading.
>>>> 
>>>> Jess
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 20:28:33 -0500
>>>> From: "Madison Martin" <maddymartin at mymts.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>   Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>>> Message-ID: <001501d5053d$5a3c1a90$0eb44fb0$@mymts.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Jessica,
>>>> Congrads on your new guide!! What's her temperament like so far? Look
>>>> forward to hearing more about you and your new guide! Take care,
>>>> Madison
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Diaz
>>>> via
>>>> NAGDU
>>>> Sent: May-07-19 2:49 PM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Cc: searsdiaz at gmail.com
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> I thought I would stop by to introduce my first Seeing Eye dog Shannon.
>>>> I'm
>>>> in class right now. She is a 2 year old half golden/cross. She is about
>>>> 56.5
>>>> lbs. To say I am completely sold and impressed with Seeing Eye's training
>>>> is
>>>> an understatement. Nothing but amazing and positive training methods
>>>> without
>>>> food which is what I wanted. I've had 2 previous guides from other
>>>> schools
>>>> and the food method for me just is not something I want to contend with
>>>> any
>>>> longer. Thanks for reading.
>>>> 
>>>> Jess
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/maddymartin%40mymts.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 20:13:15 -0700
>>>> From: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Sad Eyes
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>   <CAJu6SLOEHUPuWbFesyaXfqXdnEmxt-rP0VaC3nfcW=DW0M1pCQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>>> 
>>>> Hello, listers.
>>>> I always wondered why do labs go into "sad eyes" mode. I understand
>>>> sometime their eyes are like big, brown buttons and other times, they
>>>> have some white in them, giving them a sad look. Can anyone broaden my
>>>> knowledge of this? Thanks.
>>>> Elise and Becky
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 7
>>>> *************************************
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 07:10:29 -0700
>>> From: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Sad Eyes
>>> Message-ID:
>>>   <CAJu6SLOt1Cy0Tf6Eozw66vtP9n9Tw1Hc5d8BCxc4NmfBScT2Rw at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>> 
>>>> On 5/9/19, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
>>>>   nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>   nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>   nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>> 
>>>>  1. Re: Sad Eyes (dchandler001 at carolina.rr.com)
>>>>  2. Re: Intro New Dog (Tracy Carcione)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 14:04:01 +0000
>>>> From: <dchandler001 at carolina.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>   <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Sad Eyes
>>>> Message-ID: <20190508140401.VQCXW.145451.root at dnvrco-web27>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>> 
>>>> I have a lab golden cross and she's not at all overweight but her face has
>>>> a
>>>> somewhat jowly look.  I think some people think this makes the dog look
>>>> sad.
>>>> She's very happy nevertheless.
>>>> Deb and Tally
>>>> ---- Elise Berkley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hello, listers.
>>>>> I always wondered why do labs go into "sad eyes" mode. I understand
>>>>> sometime their eyes are like big, brown buttons and other times, they
>>>>> have some white in them, giving them a sad look. Can anyone broaden my
>>>>> knowledge of this? Thanks.
>>>>> Elise and Becky
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dchandler001%40carolina.rr.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 10:45:55 -0400
>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>   Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>>> Message-ID: <011001d505ac$be18d570$3a4a8050$@access.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Jess.
>>>> Congratulations!  Bet she's really cute.  Is she black or yellow?  My
>>>> cross
>>>> is yellow--a big blond.
>>>> Good luck in class.
>>>> Tracy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Diaz
>>>> via
>>>> NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 3:49 PM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Cc: searsdiaz at gmail.com
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> I thought I would stop by to introduce my first Seeing Eye dog Shannon.
>>>> I'm
>>>> in class right now. She is a 2 year old half golden/cross. She is about
>>>> 56.5
>>>> lbs. To say I am completely sold and impressed with Seeing Eye's training
>>>> is
>>>> an understatement. Nothing but amazing and positive training methods
>>>> without
>>>> food which is what I wanted. I've had 2 previous guides from other
>>>> schools
>>>> and the food method for me just is not something I want to contend with
>>>> any
>>>> longer. Thanks for reading.
>>>> 
>>>> Jess
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 8
>>>> *************************************
>>>> 
>>> Thanks, Chandler.
>>> Elise and Becky
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 07:16:43 -0700
>>> From: Elise Berkley <bravaegf711 at gmail.com>
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Intro New Dog (Tracy Carcione)
>>> Message-ID:
>>>   <CAJu6SLNqNrw4ZNS-zR5pW2m2qUKc+SfD4K2VQci0eqL+z7REmA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>> 
>>> Hello, Tracy.
>>> I hope the best for you and Shannon. Yes, I will agree, the food
>>> reinforcement is hard to break; but, I have had Becky for 4 years now,
>>> and the trend has been broken. She is good with love when she does
>>> something good. Take care and have fun!
>>> Elise and Becky
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 21:43:53 +0100
>>> From: Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>> Message-ID:
>>>   <CAJcYH6_x_yAG+g1HjCMQbha9OqrTJ8+kknDM_GpTxAYrrMPw6A at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>>> guide dog owners.
>>> 
>>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>>> 
>>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>>> used to?
>>> 
>>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>>> environments?
>>> 
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>>> cane.
>>> 
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>> Very best wishes,
>>> Sandra.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>> 
>>> Soprano Singer
>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>> 
>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>>> 
>>> Actor
>>> www.visablepeople.com
>>> 
>>> Voiceover Artist
>>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 15:58:39 -0500
>>> From: Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>   <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>> Message-ID: <BAB1C876-7713-4D9F-AD0D-6384490D1780 at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>>> 
>>> Hi Sandra,
>>> I have been using a guide dog for almost 5 years now and am also a
>>> proficient cane user. Here are some things I?ve ound
>>> First, if I am in a situation where I cannot tell what is in front of me and
>>> my dog has stopped moving because they can?t find a way around, I carry a
>>> small telescoping cane that I can use to figure out what is in our way.
>>> Better my cane be broken than my face. :)
>>> I learned very quickly to feel under my feet for the elevation changes and
>>> listen for openings in walls or other landmarks. The dog will also learn to
>>> recognize familiar turns or landmarks and indicate them with a turn of the
>>> head or by pausing.
>>> While dogs enjoy routine, there are many dogs that are adaptable to new
>>> situations and new routes. My dog is one of these dogs. She loves new areas
>>> and situations, and would be very happy if we travelled a lot. Some dogs?
>>> routines are, for lack of a better phrase, the lack of routine, if that
>>> makes sense.
>>> I hope this helps with some of your concerns.
>>> Aleeha Dudley
>>> 
>>>> On May 9, 2019, at 3:43 PM, Sandra Gayer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>>>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>>>> guide dog owners.
>>>> 
>>>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>>>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>>>> 
>>>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>>>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>>>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>>>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>>>> used to?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>>>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>>>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>>>> environments?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>>>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>>>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>>>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>>>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>>>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>>>> cane.
>>>> 
>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>> Sandra.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>>> 
>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>> 
>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>>>> 
>>>> Actor
>>>> www.visablepeople.com
>>>> 
>>>> Voiceover Artist
>>>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 16:28:52 -0500
>>> From: "Julie Johnson" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>   <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>> Message-ID: <F6E9DC2B861E43ACA300AB2D40A7BD20 at JuliePC>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>   reply-type=original
>>> 
>>> My .02, please know this is just me and everyone has different experiences.
>>> 
>>> Yes, the first time I walked with a dog I did feel a bit untethered.  It was
>>> 
>>> a bit exhilarating and disorienting at the same time.  I was used to a cane
>>> 
>>> and the info I got from contact with the environment.  that was gone and I
>>> didn't yet have the experience of recognizing what the dog was indicating.
>>> It didn't last long.  The dog will indicate the edge of the street, turns,
>>> frequently used turns/doors/etc.  You can pattern the dog to target places
>>> you want or teach the dog to take you to frequently used items like soda
>>> machines/mailboxes etc.
>>> 
>>> You will still get all the same tactile information of dips, rises and
>>> textures that you are used to now.  You will just need to get that info from
>>> 
>>> your feet instead of the cane.  I still follow walls, especially in places
>>> like malls or large hotels, but I do it by sound instead of contact with a
>>> cane.   The advantage of the dog is that you can teach the dog to say find
>>> the elevator.  So maybe the first time in a large hotel you follow the wall
>>> 
>>> around to the other side of the lobby to get to the elevator, but once
>>> you're there, you can reinforce this is a great place to be so the dog will
>>> 
>>> then be able to take you straight across the lobby directly to the elevator.
>>> 
>>> Actually most dogs are probably going to already know to find elevators.  I
>>> 
>>> live in a tiny town and my dogs don't often see elevators, so when we come
>>> across them, I typically have to show them what to do the first time in a
>>> new place.  Anyway I hope you will understand the idea and how it can apply
>>> 
>>> to lots of other situations.
>>> 
>>> If there is no clear path my dogs will generally stop and refuse to go
>>> forward.  My older dog will suggest an alternate route from a fair distance
>>> 
>>> back, but I usually have no clue what's ahead and insist we go forward,
>>> which ends in doubling back and taking the turn he previously suggested.
>>> When the dog stops you will investigate first with a foot, then a hand to
>>> check for an overhang if needed.  Carrying a folding cane to check things
>>> out if a foot or hand doesn't work is also an option.  Historically there
>>> have been diverse opinions about using a cane and dog together on a
>>> continual basis.  Some opinions are that if your using a dog you should
>>> never need a cane again.  Others use a cane and dog together nearly all the
>>> 
>>> time.  From what I can tell the cane and dog simultaneous users live in
>>> places where the pathways are very uneven and unpredictable like in very old
>>> 
>>> cities or developing countries.  If it makes you feel more secure to carry a
>>> 
>>> folding cane and getting it out when you don't understand what the dog is
>>> indicating, then I say go for it.
>>> 
>>> On routine...yes, dogs need routine, but that doesn't mean you have to go to
>>> 
>>> the same places, in the same order every day.  Different dogs will need
>>> different levels of routine, just like people.  Some dogs are more flexible
>>> 
>>> than others.  I think the most important part of a routine is feeding and
>>> relieving, but even that can vary somewhat.  Let your program know about
>>> your travels and lifestyle and they should be able to find a dog that will
>>> thrive in that environment.
>>> 
>>> HTH and welcome to the list!
>>> Julie
>>> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
>>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
>>> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
>>> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sandra Gayer via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2019 3:43 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Sandra Gayer
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>>> guide dog owners.
>>> 
>>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>>> 
>>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>>> used to?
>>> 
>>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>>> environments?
>>> 
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>>> cane.
>>> 
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>> Very best wishes,
>>> Sandra.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>> 
>>> Soprano Singer
>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>> 
>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>>> 
>>> Actor
>>> www.visablepeople.com
>>> 
>>> Voiceover Artist
>>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.2265 / Virus Database: 4365/15297 - Release Date: 07/04/18
>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 15:01:02 -0700
>>> From: Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>   <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions from a potential future guide dog user.
>>> Message-ID:
>>>   <CAF2O2CyXHAXKx2FLDR4k_esU6odprokE2KqGr2a9w_Lhry41kg at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> Please find my responses below.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 1:45 PM Sandra Gayer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>> I'm new to the list and I use a long cane. I apologise in advance if
>>>> my questionshave been asked before or seem dim to all of you seasoned
>>>> guide dog owners.
>>>> 
>>> Yeur questions are welcome, so please ask. It is important to learn what
>>> you can in order to discover whether this lifestyle is right for you. No
>>> need for apologies, and you can't ask a dim question.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I know guide dogs are taught to guide you around obstacles and find a
>>>> clear rout but, what if there is no clear rout?
>>>> 
>>> If there is not a clear route, the dog will zigzag until they get through.
>>> If there is absolutely no way through, they will stop generally, and they
>>> will expect input from you to determine what to do. they may try to turn
>>> around. This depends on the situation and the dog, and how the dog was
>>> trained to handle these things, or if it was at all.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I use walls, rails and other edges to know where I am. However, I know
>>>> that guide dogs are taught to walk in the centre of a path. Does
>>>> anyone find this disorientating? I get a, sort of, no man's land
>>>> feeling when I'm in open spaces. Is this something you learn to get
>>>> used to?
>>>> 
>>> Some dogs walk in the center. Some hug the right edge, and many hug the
>>> left edge. To answer your question, I don't find it disorienting at all.
>>> But this depends on you, and the queues you are used to using to navigate
>>> your environment. Let me try to explain a bit better:
>>> 
>>> When i was growing up, I did not know about canes, I hated canes when I
>>> discovered them, and made it a point to lose them, throw them, and sell
>>> them to others to use as they wished. When i walked, I just walked. I did
>>> not trail, I just walked. I paid a lot of attention to sounds, textures,
>>> smells, etc while walking. I was able to learn a lot from echo location
>>> about my environment... I was even able to ride a bike using echo location
>>> and my form of navigation. I did trip and fall, I am not and was not
>>> superman, but I got up and kept going.
>>> 
>>> This leads me to the question at hand. the way I have always navigated lent
>>> itself well to dog travel. Why? because the skills of environmental
>>> observation which I used to get around are exactly the skills an individual
>>> develops and uses for guide dog travel. This is a struggle for individuals
>>> who learned to trail, who learned routes by counting turns or whatever, and
>>> who did not learn to generalize routes or environmental information. this
>>> is a huge problem with Orientation and Mobility today, particularly many
>>> sighted instructors. It is important to not learn routes. It is important
>>> to learn concepts of navigation.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, the answer to your question is probably yes, you may be disorinted
>>> at first. Dogs navigate around many of the environmental clues that you may
>>> be used to using. However as you build your confidence and proficiency, you
>>> will begin utilizing different clues. Sounds, elevation changes, smells,
>>> the feel of the ground under your feet, time/distance, and other clues,
>>> along with possibly GPS aids  will become your friend. And your dog will be
>>> your ally in the world of navigating the world. With the enhanced skills
>>> and your dog's training, you will do well.
>>> 
>>> I do trail sometimes, even now, particularly when trying to find a tight
>>> turn or an entrance, but most of the time, telling my dog "left left" or
>>> right right" followed with a hand motion and rarely, a bit of persuasion
>>> with my voice and a leash tug suffices to make those turns and find those
>>> entrances.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm a Singer, an Actor and a Broadcast Presenter. I travel to new
>>>> places quite a lot. I have read that guide dogs thrive on routine.
>>>> Does that mean that the guide dog wouldn't perform well in new
>>>> environments?
>>>> 
>>> in my experience with dog handling, owners who state that their dogs thrive
>>> on a routine really are saying that they themselves are resistant to
>>> change, and thrive on routine.  I am not minimizng anyone else's
>>> experiences, or at least I am not trying to. In my experience though, the
>>> dog follows your lead. if you are relaxed, calm, and alive, your dog will
>>> be relaxed even if you are walking into a crazy situation or place. if you
>>> are not... well, your dog won't be either.
>>> 
>>> Some things to think about would be a routine for deeding... dogs loooooove
>>> food, or at least many do. A routine for taking the dog out would be
>>> helpful as well. And a routine or habit, even if it is not at the exact
>>> time each day, of playing with your dog, massaging your dog, bonding with
>>> your dog, grooming your dog is very important. Your dog is a living being,
>>> not something you can put aside and ignore whenever you feel like it just
>>> so that you can sing and act. Still, with the proper planning and
>>> attention, your dog will be just fine.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has come across a person using a guide dog but
>>>> using a cane on the right side? I just don't see how else I could get
>>>> information about the ground; slight rises, dips, there is shared
>>>> curbing in the UK, where I live, and although this means there is no
>>>> curbe, there is a slight difference in texture to the ground. Also,
>>>> things like changes in relief are communicated easily through the
>>>> cane.
>>>> 
>>> In rare situations, I I'll use a cane. I almost always carry a cane with me
>>> just in case I need it, just in case my dog gets injured. I will never
>>> allow myself to be stuck in a situation I cannot get out of. But it isn't
>>> usually to detect cracks or elevation changes. those things are usually
>>> detectable through the harness handle. If you have a dog with a good pull,
>>> and you spend time reading the dog's movements and learning to dance with
>>> your dog, you will know and feel even slight movements and indications.
>>> Your dog will read you too, and they will pick up on the fact that they may
>>> need to slow slightly at elevation changes or something. At first, you may
>>> be stumbling and it may be frustrating. You may even take a fall. but
>>> things do get better, a lot better.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> 
>>> Please reach out with any further questions.
>>> 
>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>> Sandra.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>>> 
>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>> 
>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>>>> 
>>>> Actor
>>>> www.visablepeople.com
>>>> 
>>>> Voiceover Artist
>>>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Nimer Jaber
>>> 
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
>>> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> 
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>> 
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>> 
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
>>> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>>> you, and have a great day!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 17:05:28 -0700
>>> From: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>   <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Does anyone have this (service dog) information?
>>> Message-ID: <628273B6-B6CB-4B94-B697-49C680FBC5BD at wolfskills.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> We?re going back over to Europe soon.  We?ve had successful experiences
>>> there.
>>> 
>>> As you know, Metukah works with my vision.  That?s obvious because of my
>>> cane and gear.   But as I?ve mentioned, my wife also teams with a working
>>> dog.  But it?s for head injury/navigation issues, not vision.  We recently
>>> heard that in Europe, someone had an access issue (in a couple of locations)
>>> where they were told their dog?s vest had ?the wrong color?.  I?ve never
>>> heard of this, except recently.  In eight working team years, none of us
>>> have had that issue here, or when we?ve travelled.  At least not yet.
>>> Frankly, it?s all about the working relationship, not a vest, to us.  We
>>> wouldn?t care if changing colors helped us out there, where there is a
>>> narrower access window than we have here.  (For example, service or not,
>>> we?ll pay a ?dog fee? for hotels.  However, many of them are dog friendly.
>>> Here in the US because of ?pet? behavior, we only tell a hotel we?re coming
>>> with a working dog *after* being assigned a clean room, so we don?t get a
>>> room that dogs have misbehaved in).   Anyhow, do any of you know about this,
>>> and what ?color? seems to be more culturally acceptable over there in the
>>> EU, or specific counries within it?  We?re going to Switzerland, Italy, and
>>> possibly France and Germany on the back end.  I would never put up with this
>>> here, but rules are different over there.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 21:26:28 -0400
>>> From: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,    the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>   <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Does anyone have this (service dog) information?
>>> Message-ID: <F820777A-3413-4AF3-B4D7-535DF3EF38DC at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>>> 
>>> This isn't really answering your question, but I was just told less than a
>>> week ago that my dog wasn't a service dog because her vest wasn't a specific
>>> color, in the US. Well she doesn't wear a vest at all if we are being
>>> technical. I know a service dog handler with a psychiatric service dog who
>>> spent a semester in Italy last year and she didn't run into any situation
>>> where the color of the vest was brought up.
>>> You might find that if a particular country has service dogs primarily from
>>> one program, people might be more familiar with whatever color that program
>>> uses.
>>> Danielle
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On May 9, 2019, at 8:05 PM, Peter Wolf via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi friends,
>>>> 
>>>> We?re going back over to Europe soon.  We?ve had successful experiences
>>>> there.
>>>> 
>>>> As you know, Metukah works with my vision.  That?s obvious because of my
>>>> cane and gear.   But as I?ve mentioned, my wife also teams with a working
>>>> dog.  But it?s for head injury/navigation issues, not vision.  We recently
>>>> heard that in Europe, someone had an access issue (in a couple of
>>>> locations) where they were told their dog?s vest had ?the wrong color?.
>>>> I?ve never heard of this, except recently.  In eight working team years,
>>>> none of us have had that issue here, or when we?ve travelled.  At least
>>>> not yet.  Frankly, it?s all about the working relationship, not a vest, to
>>>> us.  We wouldn?t care if changing colors helped us out there, where there
>>>> is a narrower access window than we have here.  (For example, service or
>>>> not, we?ll pay a ?dog fee? for hotels.  However, many of them are dog
>>>> friendly.  Here in the US because of ?pet? behavior, we only tell a hotel
>>>> we?re coming with a working dog *after* being assigned a clean room, so we
>>>> don?t get a room that dogs have misbehaved in).   Anyhow, do any of you
>>>> know about this, and what ?color? seems to be more culturally acceptable
>>>> over there in the EU, or specific counries within it?  We?re going to
>>>> Switzerland, Italy, and possibly France and Germany on the back end.  I
>>>> would never put up with this here, but rules are different over there.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 9
>>> *************************************
>>> 
>> Hello, Sandra.
>> I have had my guide dog for 4 years now and, believe it or not, I was
>> visually impaired for 15 years before I decided to get a guide. When I
>> first got her, I was so nervous because I felt like my travel control
>> was out of my hands and in this animal. But, the way they train them,
>> and most importantly the bond you will grow with your guide, makes it
>> really pleasurable. I wanted to add that whenever we come to a decline
>> in the sidewalk, incline, a bump in the sidewalk, and even obstacles
>> on the walk (sticks, piles of leaves, etc.), Becky will stop. When she
>> stops, I drag my foot from straight out and pull it back in to me.
>> This way, I can feel what is in front of us. If I don't feel anything,
>> I use my cane, feel what is in front of us, and give her the "forward"
>> command to keep going. She will walk us around the obstacle, and we
>> are on our way. Becky will even stop and "show" me if there are
>> low-hanging branches branches from a tree. It took quite a while for
>> me to become comfortable with all of this, but I can travel faster,
>> and don't feel vulnerable when I travel.
>> Take your time to make this decision for your life. Take care and keep
>> us updated on your decisions.
>> Elise and Becky
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 170, Issue 10
> **************************************