[NAGDU] Fixing pokiness

Fri May 31 04:12:52 UTC 2019

I don't mind working with a new dog to refine what he or she has already 
been trained to do but I don't want to have to train from scratch.

On 5/30/2019 7:03 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU wrote:
> Hi Jean.
> Gosh, that sounds very frustrating.  I totally agree; carrying around treats
> all the time gets old fast.  I'd like that part to be over when I get the
> dog, and only need to bring out the treat bag occasionally, if at all.
> Someone will be coming out to help you soon, too?  Maybe that person will
> have good ideas.
> Good luck figuring out how to motivate the new guy.
> Honestly, you sign up for a trained dog, then spend lots of energy and time
> training it anyway.  Grumble grumble.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jean Menzies via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 3:26 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Jean Menzies
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fixing pokiness
>
> Hi Tracy.
>
> I'm mixing things up with food treats, using a verbal word that stands in
> for a click before treating, and also using the happy enthusiastic
> encouragement and trading off with more serious voice tone. It seems that
> what works one day doesn't work the next. He definitely can be on pace and
> work well when he wants to. For us, it doesn't feel like a lack of
> confidence, but rather, lack of desire sometimes. That's my thought, anyway.
>
> The food rewards are supposed to build his enthusiasm, but I fear it is
> creating another problem. Now he is reverting back to poor lead out and
> inconsistent pace, and expecting a food reward for clearances, etc. I start
> weaning back on the food in a few days, so he will be miffed when the treats
>
> are more random.
>
> I do know that I don't want to go to a program next time that relies so
> heavily on treats. I think they are fine for early learning and for teaching
>
> targetting and shaping behaviour, but I feel that I want a dog next time
> that is weaned off on this once the harness hits my hand. Food is only one
> kind of paycheque, and I want to go back to the old style of working for
> verbal and physical praise. JMO.
>
> Jean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:27 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fixing pokiness
>
> Hi Jean.
> Are they insisting you only use food?  For my dog, a mix of reward and
> sternness seems to work best.  I've tried the all happiness bit, and it
> makes him a bit complacent.  With him, a little correction goes a good ways
> to keep him sharp. But he's not a sensitive flower.
> Tracy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jean Menzies via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 1:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Jean Menzies
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fixing pokiness
>
> Hi Tracy
>
> Wow, sounds like you wrote that message for me. Yes, I too have heard that a
>
> million times, but it's harder when it's in the moment and happening. My boy
>
> will also stop when he feels harness pressure if he is in a pokey mood. But
> if he is on his own agenda and working well, his pull is very nice. Very
> inconsistent in pace and pull, seeming to depend on mood. But he is a safe
> worker. The food reward regime I am to use for the ten day 100% treat phase
> helped at first, but now he is fading back into more inconsistent pace and
> pull with very little lead out at times. So I can hardly wait until I am
> supposed to start weaning back on food in the next week or so. Right now I
> have created a treat-focused expectancy where he stops and looks for treats
> after doing something he thinks deserves one. lol. But I am following the
> trainer program, so I will see how this all works out over time.
>
> All that to say that your points are excellent, and I will try that as he
> slows down and stops.
>
> Jean
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 7:05 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Fixing pokiness
>
> I had follow-up yesterday, which was useful, and some of the tips might help
> Jean, too, or someone else.
>
> My follow-up was for a strong left tendency, but also touches on hesitancy.
> The stuff the trainer said is stuff I've heard for decades, but still need
> to be reminded about sometimes.
>
> 1.        Keep a firm tension on the harness, so he feels me and I feel him.
> When I first did this, he stopped, but a little encouragement got him going,
> and then he went faster.
>
> 2.       2.  If he slows down, I have to immediately slow down, too, and
> keep up the firm tension in the harness.
>
> 3.       If he slows down because of a crowd, I should encourage him, and be
> sure not to move up on him, trying to go faster.
>
> That's pretty much it.  Simple, ay?  Heard it a million times, right?
>
> The trainer thinks Krokus is a touch slow for me (which is true), and we've
> both gotten used to not having much tension in the harness, but that's not
> really working for us.  She also thinks I haven't been correcting him as
> much as I should, especially for sniffing.  I keep telling him "No more nice
> guy!", but then I forget again.
>
> Anyway, keeping a firm tension in the harness, and insisting he work right
> up to things, was already making a difference in his creeping, occasional
> hesitance, and to some degree his left tendency yesterday, so I'll really
> try to keep it in mind.
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
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