[NAGDU] Information about Contracts was Multiple applications

Sun Nov 1 17:28:52 UTC 2020

Madison,

	As we move forward more information about the identities of the programs with these sorts of paternalistic and, in some cases, illegal behaviors will be identified. I have submitted  an article to the Braille Monitor I am expecting to be published in either December or January. In this article I name names, including the name of the blind person involved. ITM, I would like to encourage more discussion on this list by asking others to read the contracts with their training programs to see exactly what you have agreed to and report it here. I think this sort of awareness and discussion is very valuable, especially to those considering their choices. I will start with the contract I have with my guide dog training program.

	My Collie is from Freedom Guide Dogs for the Blind in Cassville, N.Y I have no contract with Freedom. They have given me full ownership and title to my guide dog. If there are any complaints levied against me, Freedom tells me they will contact me to make me aware of the complaint but have no right to unilaterally repossess my dog. If Freedom believes I am mistreating or abusing my dog, they will report that to the local animal services enforcement agency with jurisdiction where I live. The only document I signed with Freedom was my application form.

Fraternally yours,
Marion

Marion Gwizdala
(813) 626-2789
Blind411 at verizon.net

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Madison Martin via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:56 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: maddymartin at mymts.net
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Information about Contracts was Multiple applications

Hi Marion,
I hope that the other schools will co-opperate and give you the info you're looking for!!! Look forward to reading the articles! Are you going to at least identify the school you're talking about? 

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala, via NAGDU
Sent: October 28, 2020 9:56 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Marion Gwizdala, <blind411 at verizon.net>
Subject: [NAGDU] Information about Contracts was Multiple applications

I am preparing articles about the various policy statements of guide dog training programs as they are outlined in their contractual agreements we are required to sign.When we get a guide dog from one particular program, we agree the program has the right to repossess the dog if they suspect abuse. There needs be no evidence, only suspicion. The same contract redefines abuse as a dog that, in their sole opinion,  is overweight, allowing them to repossess the dog. Another has a mandatory retirement age of eleven. How many of us have worked dogs well past eleven? When asked about this seemingly arbitrary retirement age, the Director of Admissions and Graduate Services told me they want their "dogs to enjoy their retirement"! What does this even mean? Maybe they will take up knitting? Perhaps a round of golf every day? For those of us who have worked dogs well past this arbitrary retirement age, we know how much they would have enjoyed their retirement when you walk out the door with another dog when they are more than willing and capable of working. They love to work, so this is not enjoyable to them! How can anyone who has had no interest or involvement in your dog's activity for the past nine years tell you when to retire your dog? One program goes as far as to contractually state they have the right to repossess your dog at any time and for any reason at their sole and absolute discretionNo warning; no reason; no appeal; no explanation! 
. And this is ownership?

	If you are a guide dog user, you owe it to yourself to read the civil contracts you have with your training programs. Most of these contracts subjugate their patrons to their paternalistic oversight. Many defend these tactics with the unfounded statement, "They must have a reason!" They do have a  reason and they should tell us what it is!

	I have asked all the training programs to provide me with their paperwork to review and comment upon; however, only one program - guide Dogs of Texas - has offered up their contracts and asked for input. Freedom Guide Dogs has no contract; the only thing we sign is their application form. I know there are consumers from each of the programs who may be willing to share their contracts with identifying information 
redacted should any program ultimately refuse to share their contracts.   

	I will keep you up-to-date on my efforts and when various articles are published.

Fraternally yours,
Marion

Marion Gwizdala
(813) 626-2789
Blind411 at verizon.net

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Gayer via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 6:04 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Sandra Gayer
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Multiple applications

Hello Sandra,
That sounds like a horrible situation to be in. I'm so glad it ended well.

Th Guide Dog school in the UK retains ownership. You, the handler, cannot make decisions without their involvement and their ultimate agreement, although they will discuss decisions  with you.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 10/28/20, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Thanks Marion, I had forgotten to mention that.  Believe me you want 
> to know that information before deciding on a school.  Some people 
> don’t care but for some of us, we do not want our schools to come and 
> take back our dogs for any reason they can come up with to use against 
> us.  Oh, I know it does happen because in 1976 a school tried to take 
> my dog when someone blabbed to them that I had been diagnosed with 
> multiple sclerosis.  Yes, I had fallen a few times because the dog was 
> walking much too fast for me but what I needed is help slowing him 
> down not to have my dog taken away.  Fortunately my doctors,  physical 
> therapists, a good lawyer and I fought and the school ended up 
> bringing him back to me a few weeks later.  However, the situation 
> should have never happened in the first place.  So, when looking for a school, applicant beware and be sure to read and understand everything.
>
> Sandra Johnson
> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Marion Gwizdala, via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:27 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Marion Gwizdala,
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Multiple applications
>
> I
>
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--
Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.

Soprano Singer
www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter
www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html

Actor
www.visablepeople.com

Voiceover Artist
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