[NAGDU] Guide Dogs and Babies

sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jul 15 01:35:04 UTC 2021


Heather,

I love your post!
Would have loved to reply to just you, but you didn't give your email.

Kind regards,
Susan

sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Heather Bird via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 8:49 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Heather Bird <heather.l.bird at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide Dogs and Babies

Yes, baby wearing, yes, yes, yes. Can you pull a stroller while working a Guide Dog?Yes, you definitely can. However, asking a dog to provide clearance to a stroller, or wagon, that could be a few feet behind you, during a street crossing, is not entirely fair to the dog. Although, these dogs are amazing, and they will try their best. Exploring options with hands-free leashes, including Crossbody, and around your waist is a must, this will help when you are doing things like nursing the baby, putting on a carrier, taking off the carrier, changing a diaper, and so on and so forth.

I would try to visit people with babies, especially obnoxious babies who scream a lot, if your dog seems put off, don’t comfort him, don’t keep telling him it’s OK, just ignore it, or, every time a baby cries just use a hearty positive tone and tell him, good boy, big noise, loud baby, good boy. If you are comfortable with click and treat, it also could be paired with a screaming baby to make it more positive, but if click and  treat is not your thing that’s totally fine.

When you bring the baby home, for the first time, I would put your hand over the babies face so he can’t lick the baby right in the face, but let him sniff, and a little bit, let him lick the baby, and explore it. You can also send home a used baby blanket, even one that is slightly soiled, with spit up, obviously, not baby poop, with someone for your dog to smell and inspect, before you return home with the baby. Obviously, don’t leave the blanket alone with your dog, if there the kind of dog who likes to eat socks, tampons, underwear, and other disgusting things. I have, thus far, avoided having a dog that actively tries to eat soiled clothing, although I have several acquaintances whose dogs did have this propensity. I would invest in a secure and sturdy diaper pail, or if you are using cloth diapers, a wet dry bag, with a very high hook, that is secure, because dogs getting into diapers, disposable, or cloth, is not fun. The fillers in disposable diapers, especially the ones that are not organic, can be dangerous to dogs, and having a  $17 fuzzy bunz diaper torn apart,  is also not a fun experience. also, clothing, babies are messy, drool,  spit up, poop, P, tears, boogers, and, eventually, baby food. So, a hamper with a lid is good, and a hamper with or without a lid, shut into a closet is better, especially because, a dog who might normally just lick one spot of sauce on a pant leg, or chew  a little bit on a sweater  sleeve you accidentally dunked in your coffee, could very easily ingest  an entire baby sock, or mittens or, heck, most newborn clothing is small enough that eating it, actually ingesting it, for a dog, would not be much of a stretch. And, while  they sometimes do pass these things, in spectacularly awful ways, with little or no harm, they can also wind up in medical distress, and vet bills can reach into the thousands of dollars. Highly not recommended.

I would set up all of the baby equipment you intend to use ahead of time, swing, bouncy seat, and let your dog inspect them. If you have a truly active and boisterous older dog, or, a younger dog who is inexperienced, and energetic dog, who, out of harness jumps up on everything, or runs around like a bull in a China shop, it is possible they could knock over the  swing, although, more likely they would simply slam into it, and set the seat swinging pretty roughly, thus scaring the baby, not knock the swing over, as they generally have a very wide base. And, even if the dog bangs into a table on which you have placed a bouncy seat, unless it’s a very unsturdy table, it is likely only two jar and startle  the baby. Not knock them off of the table. 

 If you are going to bed share, and your dog typically sleeps on the bed, I would invest in some training to get the dog not to sleep on the bed, which could include getting them used to a crate in your room, a tie down  in your room, or just teaching them to love a really nice elevated pet bed, like the one I used with Ilsa, that Raul actually made me aware of. We jokingly call it a dog trampoline, and it’s very comfortable. Since it looks a little bit more like a piece of furniture than just a cushion, dogs who are allowed on couches and beds, seem to prefer this sort of dog bed when they’re being asked to use one in Lou of a bed or a couch.We used bed sharing, with a protective rail on the side of the bed, and for the first few months, my dog slept in the crate next to the bed. We allowed her to return to sleeping on our  bed once the baby was about four months old, and she always slept at my feet, never rolled over on, laid on, or even stepped on the baby on our bed.,

You should be able to work your dog through your entire pregnancy. Now, if you become high risk, or if you’re having a lot of back pain, or round ligament pain, you might not want to. Do you remember that pain you probably had in your obliques, and the muscles in your left side and hip when you first started working with the dog? That pain can come back, and, it can exacerbate pain in your ligaments on your left side. But if your dog is not super fast and does not pull super hard you’ll probably be fine. if Your oB or your midwife tells you not to work your guide dog while pregnant, unless you know for a fact that they are an awesome individual, who understands the blindness thing, I would take their opinion with a huge grain of salt. Many sighted people become extremely over protective with blind people who are pregnant, and tell them not to do things, that they would not normally prohibit their sighted patients from doing.

you’re Questions aren’t silly. I would suggest posting on the Blind parents list if you haven’t already done so. There are a lot of parents on the NAGDU  list, and there are a lot of Guide Dog users on the Blind parents list, and there are people who could help you who are not on both lists  

I am almost certain. Your guide dog school will likely tell you, you need to be a good housekeeper, keep all of your babies toys off of the floor, so that they don’t get chewed on by your guide dog, and ruined, or hurt your guide dog. and, as they say, they are not wrong. However, life happens, so I would try to reconcile yourself right now, to the fact that your dog is going to do something gross at some point, like lick baby puke off your shoulder, or try to get into the diaper pail. They are also going to eat at least some toddler food that gets dropped, Cheerios, banana, whatever lovely goodies rain down from the high chair. And, your dog is going to put his mouth on things that will, not long after, also wind up in your babies mouth, pacifiers, if you use them, I don’t, but some people do colon rattles, teethers  toys, and, what will they do to your baby? Well, it will help boost their immune system is what that will do. I will tell you a true story, and I know lots of parents who have had some variation of this happen to them. Your baby will have a stump of umbilical cord for a few days after they are born. it will be tied off, after the court is cut and then? It will dry up, and then? It will fall off. most parents I know,  blind and cited alike, discover that they do not in fact know exactly when it happened or where that little booger got too. I can tell you, with my first son, my dog Paisley, yes, she ate it. Fortunately, with my second son, I noticed the minute it came off, and was able to throw it away. Yes, I do delight and take a strange perverse kind of glee, out of telling perspective and expecting parents, about some of the totally normal, natural, healthy, but kind of disgusting things that come along with parenthood. Do you remember when you first got a guide dog, and all the conversations you suddenly found yourself in the middle of that had to do with poop, or P, or other things you didn’t really picture self being in conversations about on a regular basis? Well, once you have a baby, actually, once you’re pregnant, those sorts of conversations will increase by about 10 fold. Welcome to the Guide Dog using mommy club.

You can train your guy dog to leave baby toys a loan to an extent. If you always have a dog toy around, the minute they pick up a baby toy, you can correct them, and then immediately hand them one of their toys and then praise them. If you have a dog who is both naughty  enough, and also hard enough to stand it, you can do specific training sessions where you hold out a baby toy and the minute they sniff it you correct them, and then you offer them one of their toys and praise, then you said both toys on the floor a couple of feet apart, and correct and prays as appropriate depending on which toys they go for.

This also is important? If you use a breast pump, the tubing, which will smell like you, the person that they love, and like a food substance, will be a huge temptation, if they manage to eat a section of it it could hurt them, and if they chew it up they will ruin the tubing, and things like valves and shields and tubing, can be very inconvenient, and sometimes expensive to replace, depending on what model of breast pump you have. I can tell that this email is getting pretty wordy I think I would have to blame it on the fact that it represents an intersection of two of my favorite topics, Guide dog handling, and parenthood. Feel free to email me off list with any questions, and also check out the blind parents list as it is a great resource. There are a few blind parents groups on ‎WhatsApp, a few of which have one or more guide dog handlers in them, which could be a great support if you are interested. When I first started doing my conference calls back in 2018, I had one that was meant to be an intersection of the New York Association Of Guide Dog Users, Board Member and the New York Blind parents group. It wasn’t terribly well attended, our affiliate, is sort of small, and, there weren’t a lot of people were attended, but there was a great exchange of information. Perhaps this is a topic that Stacey might take up for Guide Dog matters at some point. If we could get good participation between the Blind parents group at the national level, and the National Association Of Guide Dog Users,, that would be great. I started recording our calls once we started doing the school interviews, but before then, I didn’t even know you could record them, or how to do it, otherwise I would send you the recording. But alas, no recording.

I just want to cover one more topic in this decidedly long email. I don’t want you to be too stressed out during pregnancy, stress is not good for the baby, or for you for that matter. Everyone has their own experiences, and they should definitely feel free to share them. However, I don’t want you to worry, and I know many, many guy dog handler‘s who are parents whose dogs did just fine, or who only had a mile adjustment problem. Is it possible to have the opposite experience? Yes, definitely, but it also is extremely possible to have a great and positive experience. I can understand why a new parent might be hesitant to bring their baby out in extreme weather of either type, but I worked my dog and brought my baby out, and very hot and very cold weather. As someone else mentioned you can get a special coat to put over a baby carrier, or, depending on what kind of carrier you use, you can just get a coat several sizes too big, and only zip it up partway. I was a size 1X, and I bought a size 3X coat, that I wore over the carrier in the front with It zipped up the front, and which I put on in a different fashion over the carrier when I wore it  on my back it also depends on how rigid your schedule is, and how rigid you need it to be, what your dog is like, what your life is like. I will let you in on a secret, in general, schedules are a good thing to aim for, but Babies didn’t get the memo in most cases, and trying to make them adhere to a strict schedule, as very young infants, isn’t generally very good for them. At least at the beginning, feeding on demand and letting them sleep whenever they want to, is recommended by the American Academy of pediatrics, and also the American College of obstetricians and gynecologists. I made it very clear to The Seeing Eye when I applied for dogs, that I wanted a dog that was a little bit obnoxious, that  I wanted a dog who would go and get his bowl and drop it on the floor with a horrible clatter  if I was late with dinner, or that would whine or bark if it needed to go out and I was busy with the kids and just not getting the message. My dog gets fed every night, but it usually varies within a timeframe of about one or two hours. I take care of my dog, and I take care of her well, and she is healthy and happy, but a strict schedule, nope, not happening in this house. I would think of a schedule more as an order of events not a timing of the vents. So for instance, if you know that your baby is going to wake up pretty early, and in a pretty good mood, I would nurse them, and then plop them in the baby swing, to kick and wiggle and have a blast while you take your dog out and feed it. If you know that around 10 or 11 AM, if you nurse your baby, they’re going to be ready to take a nap on your shoulder, and they’re not going to sleep anywhere but  your shoulder, and of story, amen. Then, taking the dog out before you sit down to nurse might be a good plan. As an aside, petting your dog with your foot while you rock and nurse the baby is a great way to connect with both of them, and, if your dog lays in the right position, and you lay your foot gently on top of your dog, you can rock back-and-forth, and the motion of the chair will basically just pet your dog with your foot for you. It is likely that there will be a time of day when your baby turns into a monster Temporarily  A lot of babies do this around three or 4 PM, some  as late as five or six. If you know that’s coming up, then this might be a good time to take a raw marrow bone, or a Nyla bone, or a Kong filled with peanut butter, toss it in the crate, put your dog in there too, and prepared to walk and pat and nurse and rock and wiggle and dance and sing and try to keep your baby from spontaneously combusting. Also, I’m going to repeat something I have read in a lot of baby books, and then I’m gonna add something to it. If people offer to help, let them. Don’t fall prey to “oh I’ll hold the baby “syndrome though. That is, someone comes over to help, and what you really want to do is lay down with your baby a nurse and sleep, but they say to you “oh, I’ll hold the baby for you so you can do some dishes. “Or “don’t worry, just pump some breastmilk and I’ll get a bottle and I’ll feed the baby for you while you clean up the living room and get some housework done how about some laundry? “Obviously, if you need a break from the baby those could be very nice offers, but often times, what mom really wants to do is sleep, not socialize, spend time with her baby, not let someone else take care of the baby which then freeze her up, to do what? Not to pamper herself, no, but go catch up on laundry. No thank you. The guy dog end of things might be that people offer to babysit your guide  dog, take it for a walk, feed it, bring it to their house for a few days. If this is really what you think will help, you can certainly except the offer, but don’t feel pressured to handover your baby or your dog. If you want to snuggle your dog and enjoy your new baby, then just tell the person know, thanks, but if you could run the dishwasher that would be great. Or “actually, I would like to spend some time with my baby, maybe I’ll put her in a carrier and go for a walk with my guide dog, would you be willing to fold this load of laundry for  me while I’m gone and then maybe we can have a cup of coffee when I get back. “ babies are cute, Guide Dogs are cute, and often when people want to help, they want to rock the baby or walk the dog, dishes are not sexy, laundry is not glamorous, but if people genuinely want to help, then they will, with good grace, help with what you ask them to help with.

I hope you find some of this to be helpful. Good luck with your pregnancy, and congratulations also.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 13, 2021, at 6:29 PM, Julie McGinnity via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm not trying to be cute, though I suppose the subject line is pretty 
> adorable. My fiance and I are expecting a baby in November, our first 
> baby. I am, of course, excited and terrified all at once. My current, 
> second, dog is 9 years old and going relatively strong. He seems 
> unphased by all the changes that have happened thus far. He is a big 
> yellow labrador who clings to me pretty fiercely. Although I'm not 
> concerned he will hurt the baby, I am hoping I can find ways to make 
> the changes easier for him. I just moved, so we are learning a new 
> area. I am sensitive to his age and want to take care with him as much 
> as possible.
> 
> I have a couple of questions:
> 
> Have any of you successfully gone through big transitions with older dogs?
> 
> I've heard that some guide dog handlers cannot work their dogs after a 
> certain point in their pregnancies? Is this common? My dog is large 
> with a strong pull, but he has slowed down a little bit in the last 
> year, though nothing I can't or don't want to work with.
> 
> Are there ways I should be preparing my dog for baby's arrival? Are 
> there ways I should introduce him to the baby? Are these questions 
> silly? Lol
> 
> I plan on babywearing as much as possible and figure I can do this 
> with a dog. Are there baby carriers that make working a dog easier?
> 
> Ok, I think that's all for now. Thank you so much for any responses.
> 
> Julie
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Julie A. McGinnity
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of 
> Law, JD Candidate 2023
> 
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