[NAGDU] REASON FOR THE CRATE

Sat Mar 6 03:26:30 UTC 2021

Hi Susan:

My goodness I got through my first 38 years of guide dogs without ever having to use a crate or having a trainer tell me I should use one.  It wasn't until I got Eva in 2014 that I saw a crate in the room.  As I said, I bet Eva is glad she was matched with me since she hated the crate.  Her trainer said he had a lot of trouble even getting her to step into it.  Obviously whoever raised Eva did not put her in a crate.  I bet he was relieved when I said I did not use them.  Fortunately none of my dogs have needed a crate.  Even a tie-down chain was brought home but almost never used.  The first few nights I did close my bedroom door just in case they wondered away and I did not hear them cry to go outside.     

Sandra
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Susan Jones via NAGDU
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 10:02 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net
Subject: [NAGDU] REASON FOR THE CRATE

Good evening.

I don't care much for the crate either, and you could use a tie-down instead.
The reason for confining or restricting the dog is so that the dog doesn't fall into unhelpful behavior patterns without your knowledge.  To me, this makes a lot of sense, at least for the first few weeks.
Why?
I can't see what my dog is doing, so in my mind, s/he needs to be either tethered to me, or on tie-down or in the crate at all times for the first few weeks.
This means, if I need to go take a shower, or leave the house without her, I know she is safe, and won't find something to chew, tear up, or otherwise destroy, or use the bathroom while I'm not watching her.
Also, this gives me a routine that I can resort to if, after relaxing the restrictions, I find she is engaging in behavior that is a problem.
Most dogs that are trained with a crate from an early age consider it their safe place, and will go there for comfort, especially when I have company.

Just because a dog behaved well for its puppy raisers is no guarantee that she will behave for me, whom she doesn't yet know.  The puppy raisers also usually have the advantage of sight, and probably more hearing than I have as well. 

In my mind, a new dog has to earn my trust.  I have to know that she will let me know if she needs to go out unexpectedly, and that her house behavior is reliable.
For most of my dogs, this process only took a couple of weeks, and then they had the run of the house, even when I was away.   

Kind regards,

Susan Jones

sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sandra Johnson via NAGDU
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 9:06 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sandra Johnson <sljohnson25 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Info pilot dogs

Hi Stefania,

Yes, we took the city bus a few times.  You will do it with your trainer a few times and in the last couple of days you will do the trip as your solo final test to see if you go home with your dog.  That trip has you walking to the bus stop a few blocks from the school, taking the bus a few stops down to the very busy business part of the city, you will walk a route that takes you into some buildings where you will go upstairs use the elevators and for those who want it the escalator.  Then you will continue the route until you get back to the bus stop.  Even though this is a solo trip a trainer, not one you and your dog know, will be following you in order to be sure you are safe.  This made me nervous being in an unfamiliar city but I knew Eva was an excellent guide.  I forgot where  to turn a couple of times so the trainer did quietly tap me on the shoulder to whisper where to turn.  I thought they would count that against me but they didn't.  They will meet after you get back to evaluate your trip then come to your room to tell you if you passed or failed.  Pilot uses the chain collars with a leather leash and harness.  The crates are approximately 3 feet square.  Eva is a little 53 pound 22 inch tall golden.  I imagine they would have a larger crate if a dog was too big for that size.  You are supposed to put your dog in the crate at night or any time you are not holding the leash.  I asked why they insisted on this and a trainer told me that he really did not like the crates but his boss said that graduates kept asking for it so they began using them.  I think it was due to lazy grads who just did not want to take the time to teach their dogs to be well behaved in the house.  I think forcing our wonderful working guides into those little crates is extremely cruel.  The trainer said it was a good thing Eva was given to me because she hated the crate.  The one time I had to put her in it and leave the room so the trainer could check off that box on the list of tasks that had to be completed, Eva began to shake and cry.  I could hear her panicked cries and barks all the way down in the lounge.  The trainer used to call Eva his little princess and he said if she kept that up she would lose her crown.  He told me to go and get her because she was so upset.  Eva was his only golden and only female so I think that is why he gave her some extra attention because he loves golden retrievers.  The rest of the dogs were all male black and yellow labs and 2 standard poodles.  For the poodles Pilot does not cut their tails.  They do not have that awful poodle haircuts either, all the hair is a medium length which they will give the dog a trim if the student wants it to be shorter.  As you might have read on the website they also train shepherds, Dobermans and boxers.  They do not have as many of these breeds as they do the labs so you could have a longer wait if you have a breed preference.  I don't really understand why they do this but when you feed the dog, which you will do twice a day,  you will go into the bath and feed room, fill your dish and then go outside and sit in the chairs to feed your dog.  I think this is weird but did as requested.  After you get your dog a trainer will take you and your dog into the bathtub and teach you how to give a bath.  You have to groom them outside too.  So, since Ohio is snowy and cold in the winter pick a spring or summer class.  You will arrive on Sunday.  When you arrive a trainer will pick you up and bring you to the school.  They will show everyone around that first night and you will have time to unpack and begin to learn your way around.  They let those who felt more secure use their canes that first day.  Then they encourage you to begin finding your way without it because you will soon have a wiggling dog on the end of your leash.  For first time students dogs are given on Wednesday afternoon.  For those of us who had dogs before our dogs were brought to us the next day after lunch.  The time before getting the dogs is for Juno walks with the trainer so they can be sure they have made the correct match.  Unlike other schools where students just arrive and hope there is a dog ready for class that will match with them, Pilot makes sure they have a good match before they even call you for class.  That is how I was matched with Eva.  I had requested a small female golden who walked slow without pulling.  It was a wonderful coincidence that Eva had just completed her final blindfold test that day and the trainers noticed my just arrived completed application.  I had only mailed it in the week before.  I guess you can say Eva and I are a match that was meant to be.  Good luck with your application and training.

Sandra and Eva        

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stefania Cireddu via NAGDU
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 6:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Stefania Cireddu <zazu83 at hotmail.it>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Info pilot dogs

Hi!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I’m surprised for the crates, but do they close them or dogs can walk in the rooms? In my bedroom at school they gave me a pillow for the dog. I was also surprised for the 83 yearold lady! I apreciate that pilot dogs found a way to train your dog for you. Also here in Italy sometimes schools do that! Thanks for telling about staying and living there!
Do you know if pilot dogs uses the collar with chain or others? Did you use also public transportations in training?
Thank you again!!!!

Inviato da iPhone

> Il giorno 5 mar 2021, alle ore 22:43, Sandra Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> ha scritto:
> 
> Hi Again Stefania,
> 
> This is Sandra again.  I forgot to tell you that Pilot Dogs has a dog crate by every bed.  Now, I disagree with using crates.  In 45 years I have never felt the need to crate my guide dogs.  I expected that they had been taught proper behavior during their time with the puppy raiser.  My dogs have always enjoyed complete unrestricted freedom in my house.  I was lucky while on class because I was alone in my room due to my dog allergies and asthma.  Unknown to the trainers I let Eva sleep next to my bed on a little throw blanket I had packed for her.  The only thing that happened is a couple of times she climbed into bed with me.  I kept the bathroom door cracked just in case she cried or barked and she did attempt to join me in the shower.  She also took my bathmat and was cuddled up on my bed with it between her paws and under her pretty golden head.  I was too busy laughing at her to be mad.  I guess I am a pushover for a fuzzy golden who is full of love and joy.    
> 
> 
> Sandra and the goofy golden Eva
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sandra Johnson via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 4:30 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Sandra Johnson <sljohnson25 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Info pilot dogs
> 
> Hello Stefania,
> 
> My name is Sandra and I have a female golden from Pilot.  Eva's behavior and work are the best I have had in my 45 years of working with guide dogs.  She graduated at 14 months old.  I thought she would have been much older because she was so calm and worked without being distracted.  I had almost given up on having another dog when my previous golden Tara retired.  I have arthritis and multiple sclerosis.  All the schools kept telling me I did not walk fast enough and far enough to have a guide dog even though I had been a guide dog handler for almost 40 years at that time.  I had heard that Pilot's dogs were not well trained so I saved their application for last.  I am sure glad I decided to take the chance because Eva is perfect for me and Pilot did not worry about my medical issues effecting my ability to work a guide dog.  Eva walked slow and did not pull.  The trainer worked her while also using a support cane in his other hand and Eva had no problems with this as well as taking extra time on curbs and steps.  They could see immediately that we were a perfect team.  I am extremely pleased to say that now almost 7 years later we are still doing great.  Our training went very well.  Pilot gears the training to what each student needs, not a group of six or more students all doing the same thing.  Pilot Dogs is located right in the city of Columbus Ohio so there is no need to do as most other schools and getting in a van or bus and being driven to the neighborhoods where training will be that day.  At Pilot you will remain in the building and go out when it is your turn.  The first few days are one student at a time and then later they will take two at a time.  With me walking slower most of the time I went by myself with a trainer.  The only time we were driven to our training for that day was when we went to do a country trip and a shopping trip.  They had no problem cutting the daily walks shorter for anyone who needed it.  We had all ages on class all the way up to an 83 year old woman getting her first guide dog.  Pilot Dogs is not a fancy building with single rooms and TVs in every room and lots of other stuff.  The rooms are double occupancy.  Most students spend time in the main lounge where they can watch TV and socialize with their classmates.  Experienced guide dog handlers stay for 12 days and everyone else for the full 26 days.  Pilot does not do any kind of follow-up visits from a trainer like most other schools.  However, if a student is having difficult problems that cannot be resolved by phone they can bring the student and dog back to the school for additional help.  Feel free to write to me on list or off list  if you think up any other questions or just want to chat.          
> 
> Sandra and Golden Eva
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stefania Cireddu 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 10:57 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Stefania Cireddu <zazu83 at hotmail.it>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Info pilot dogs
> 
> Hello, my name is Stefania, I live in Italy and  I’ve already contacted your facebook group, so I apologize if I will repeat this topic. I’m considering to apply to pilot dogs for my next guide dog, because this is the only school which gives dogs abroad. So, I would like to have some information about training and dogs’ behavior. For example, if dogs are well selected. In the school of my dog, in Italy, I think that they don’t chose well because they have dogs dogs also from people that don’t want them animore. Maches are no good sometimes because the dogs are no good for guiding. My first dog has been trained dispite his fear of croud and noise and public transportation, he doesn’t work now but I had him for a year. My second, that I still have, has a strong personality and barks to other dogs and want to attack them when she’s on harness. Both of my dogs didn’t have puppy raisers, so I think that they have not been prepared to became guide dogs. On the web syte Of pilot dogs I got some information, but I would like to know more specifically about some experiences. As I said, I had 2 dogs here in Italy but I had real not too good experience, so I was looking for other schools also abroad.As it’s a long jurney from Italy, I’m a little bit scary to risk if there are too negative experiences, because I’ve already troubled!
> 
> Thank you for now And sorry for my explenetions.
> Stefania.
> 
> Inviato da iPhone
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