[NAGDU] doggy repo

Tue Mar 9 18:11:50 UTC 2021

I’m with Tracy here. The person deserves at least a fair hearing and an apology but going forward, let’s strive for actual appeals and due process from any organization. 

Regarding the repo of this dog and the price for adoption, I’m sorry but I don’t see it as a money maker for the school, or any school that puts a price on adopting a dog. I don’t begrudge any school for asking for a donation, which this price is, in order to receive retired or career change dogs. 

They want to know that people are serious about the adoption, especially for an older dog that may have health issues. Often, at least at GDF/AVD, adoptive families had to sign contracts that were much more strict than those of graduates. The one dog I had to assist in reclaiming was left in the backyard repeatedly, which was against the contract, even if it did have a very nice dog house. Having money doesn’t always assure good treatment but investing in such a living being often does. 

In GDF’s case, for a time, until he moved out of the area, they had a graduate employed as the Adoption Coordinator. I think this was a great move, not only because he was qualified for the job but because he really knew what went into the dogs and their partnerships. Not sure who is handling that now. 

> On Mar 9, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Me too.
> Though I think it might be an easier starting point to work on a real appeals process.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Catherine Clegg via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 11:20 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Catherine Clegg; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
> 
> All I can say is I second that!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 9, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Part of the difficulty here is within our own organization. Do we have the commitment to, organizationally speaking, take a stand against such things as what happened to this lady? Are we finally ready to take a stand against schools retaining ownership and thus demeaning all of us? Are we ready to recognize that instead of being beholding to guide dog schools and giving them passes when they misbehave as may have happened with South Eastern we are ready to recognize that guide dog schools are providing a service and that they do not own us?
>> 
>> In the past, debates concerning guide dog schools have come up on the National convention floor amidst fierce debate due to people feeling we should have gratitude toward guide dog schools and not holding these schools to a higher standard. 
>> 
>> NAGDU as a division of the NFB should step in and lead a real effort to bring about change in the attitudes toward blind people by guide dog schools. This does include real dog ownership, trust of clients and a real appeals process if there is a dispute between schools and clients. As we are seeing with other aspects of our movement today, we should be supporting the lady involved. The school is NOT going to provide NAGDU with any more information than it has provided in the past. Has NAGDU reached out to the lady who unexpected and, apparently, unreasonably had her guide removed? A "neutral investigation" is fine, but there is nothing wrong with starting by accepting the word of the victim here and going on from there. South Eastern has a track record of improper treatment of others whom it says mistreated guide dogs.
>> 
>> NAGDU is a consumer organization and should therefore start by accepting the word of the consumer and going from there. This situation is not a new one. NAGDU should be on the front line in working hard and publicly for change. Raul, we have a National convention coming up. I'm happy to help you write a resolution defining Federation policy for this. Also, I would hope you would be addressing this with President Riccobono and getting lawyers involved and reversing this kind of action. This is what you signed up for when you accepted the presidency. You do have our support. If people won't support you if you take the actions I submitted here then shame on them. Either we fight for the rights of blind people or we stop complaining. It really is that simple.
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 6:33 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>> 
>> I think we should do something more immediate, like help Rev. Blake appeal the seizure of her dog.  Assuming Southeastern has some kind of appeal process, if only on paper.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jody ianuzzi via NAGDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 9:12 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Jody ianuzzi
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>> 
>> This story is horrifying! There is no way that I would give up a dog without a fight.  I would go back in my house and lock the door and tell them they have to take legal action. I would go to the media and any other means available! There was no way that I would handover my dog under these circumstances!
>> 
>> I am so glad I got my dog from a  School the grant full ownership to the handler when they graduate!
>> 
>> I think we have to get the word out and perhaps people will no longer apply to southeastern for a dog. See how they handle the situation when they have no applicants!
>> 
>> JODY
>> 
>> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻 
>> 
>> 
>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com 
>> 
>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS  Erik Weihenmayer
>> 
>>> On Mar 8, 2021, at 10:56 PM, Susan Jones via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Repossessing a dog at that age is CRIMINAL!
>>> And to think they charge $5,000 for a dog that old, a dog that will 
>>> most probably have health problems that need attention, and possibly 
>>> bonding and fear issues from being separated from a handler they have loved for so long!
>>> 
>>> Criminal!
>>> Susan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sandra Johnson via 
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 12:45 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Sandra Johnson <sljohnson25 at comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>> 
>>> Marion:
>>> 
>>> No wonder they want their grads to retire their dogs when they turn 11 
>>> years old,  Every dog returned to them is another $5,000 in their pockets.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala, 
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:55 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Marion Gwizdala, <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>> 
>>> Richard,
>>> 
>>>  You ask, "what in the world does a guide dog school do with a five 
>>> or six-year-old dog they have taken from a handler?" Well, since this 
>>> dog in question was nearly ten years old, it furthers begs the 
>>> question. The answer is they adopt it out for $5,000.
>>> https://www.guidedogs.org/public-adoption/),Marion Gwizdala
>>> 
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> Blind411 at verizon.net
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Richard via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 10:09 AM
>>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: richardfiorello716 at gmail.com
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>> 
>>> This brings up a few rather interesting questions.  What in the world 
>>> does a school do with a five or six year old dog that they have taken 
>>> from a handler?  Apparently if the dog is under three there is demand 
>>> and maybe money from fire departments and similar organizations.  The 
>>> one dog that I had to send back the school very much insisted that he 
>>> come back prior to three years old and he went into the bomb sniffing business.
>>> 
>>> As for gdf please understand I have never contacted the school and 
>>> have zero first hand knowledge about their program. When attending 
>>> another program a class member was a former gdf graduate.  For the 
>>> entire time I was there he kept saying that veterans get the good dogs 
>>> and blind people get the left overs.  The only thing that gets me 
>>> curious is that I am sure that VA pays a school for whatever dogs they 
>>> are taking ownership of.  Has anyone else felt this to be the case or was this gentlemen just handing out bad information.
>>> 
>>> Richard
>>> 
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