[NAGDU] {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} Re: NAGDU's Response to New Airline Regulations (wasRe: doggy repo)
Michael Forzano
michaeldforzano at gmail.com
Sat Mar 13 17:50:18 UTC 2021
Mike,
The airlines are not required by DOT to ask for the forms, I think that the board should explore some sort of exemption for guide dog users by working with the airlines. Is this something that has been thought about or looked into?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 12, 2021, at 7:32 AM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> What is not completed? The current DOT rules went into affect on January 11. We all know from earlier posts and the town hall meetings that these rules will be in place for two years before the DOT will consider changing them. There is nothing new here.
>
> The forms that DOT put in place also are there for now. We have been told that DOT won't change them either for now.
>
> So what is new here? What do you want the board to do? How many of you have investigated the forms on different airline pages and reported findings? We know we don't like the current layout of the forms, but without substantive information and a significant number of findings that the forms as placed by the airlines on their web sites are unusable we are not going to get much action. Keep in mind that with the current ACAA we can't even litigate; It's simply not allowed under the current law.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU On Behalf Of Star Gazer via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2021 6:50 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; Stacie Gallegos <shardy at nfbtx.org>
> Cc: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>; NAGDU List <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} Re: NAGDU's Response to New Airline Regulations (wasRe: doggy repo)
>
> Also, it’s harder to change something once it’s been completed. Why the board would expect memebers to just sit back and “trust them” is strange.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Michael Forzano via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 11:08 PM
> To: Stacie Gallegos
> Cc: Michael Forzano; NAGDU List
> Subject: [NAGDU] {Spam?} Re: NAGDU's Response to New Airline Regulations (wasRe: doggy repo)
>
> I respectfully disagree. I would hope that the board would keep the membership informed of what actions are being taken and what progress is being made on said actions. It is certainly how I would lead and, I like to think, have lead in my past positions in the organization. Aren't all meetings in the federation (with a few exceptions) supposed to be open to all? This is an organization that advocates for its members and secrecy does not do anyone any good. The board is an elected body and there needs to be a means to hold it accountable to fulfilling the needs of the membership.
>
> - Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 11, 2021, at 12:31 PM, Stacie Gallegos <shardy at nfbtx.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I will be making another post regarding a different matter later. However, I’d like to address the question which has ben posed here. NAGDU is most definitely working on the recent ACAA ruling. I don’t believe that we need to be made aware of everything that is happening. When things are in place, I have no doubt that we will be given the necessary information. Just because something does not happen instantly, does not mean that the issue is not being addressed. Kind regards.
>>
>> —
>> Stacie Gallegos
>> President: National Federation of the Blind Houston Chapter
>> Secretary: Texas Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Secretary: Texas Parents of Blind Children
>>
>> E: shardy at nfbtx.org H: stacieandcash at gmail.com
>> M: 346.704.0190 O: 832.639.4477
>>
>> "Live the life you want: Blindness is not what holds you back”
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Mar 9, 2021, at 6:19 PM, Michael Forzano via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Kevan,
>>>
>>> I would love to know what the board is doing. In particular the
>>> implementation of these new airline regulations has been quite
>>> frankly a disaster. The best implementation has been Alaska with
>>> their web-based form but even that process is confusing at best. I
>>> think we should be very concerned about the difficulty of navigating
>>> the process especially for those who are not as tech savvy as some of us.
>>>
>>> I have seen some emails requesting feedback on the accessibility of
>>> the forms, but why are we not going a step further? The DOT
>>> regulations state that airlines can ask for the form but are not
>>> required to do so. Have we met with airlines and encouraged them to
>>> exempt guide dog users from filling out the form? I know that we have
>>> had productive relationships with airlines in the past, in particular
>>> I believe it was in 2018 that NAGDU met withh Delta and was able to
>>> convince them to reconsider a change in policy that would have required us to check in early and provide documentation.
>>>
>>> I want to of course give Raul and the board the benefit of the doubt,
>>> but from my perspective it looks as if not much action is being taken
>>> on some important issues. I'm not sure if this is actually the case,
>>> or if there is a lack of communication by the board. However I am
>>> clearly not the only one who feels this way, as a long-time leader in
>>> the organization felt compelled to resign which is no small deal.
>>>
>>> - Mike
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 7:05 PM Kevan Worley via NAGDU
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have seen the new president and the board taking a number of steps
>>>> to research and really get their arms around this challenging issue.
>>>> And I think they have interviewed some of the people involved in
>>>> this unfortunate and unacceptable situation. It is unfortunate and
>>>> unacceptable. If, it is as related, portrayed. And it likely is. I
>>>> am not on the national board for national Association of guide dog
>>>> users. But I am the president of the Colorado Association of guide
>>>> dog users. And I think we are all very very comfortable with the
>>>> current direction of the division. I have great confidence in Raul
>>>> and his leader ship and the team he is building. I think there are a
>>>> number of important issues that face the organization in the third
>>>> decade of the 21st-century. Certainly, I know how near and dear guide dog ownership is to folks. But access to air travel on terms of equality.
>>>> Monitoring guide dog training schools. Making sure that training
>>>> centers allow students to use their guide dogs as well as to ensure
>>>> that training schools such as Colorado Louisiana etc. actually teach
>>>> their students some of the advantages and disadvantages of guide
>>>> dog. To be done. And I think the unreasonable removal of a guide dog is an important part of our work.
>>>> And we have resolutions on the matter. But, the whole issue around
>>>> guide dog ownership be our most important priority. In my view. It
>>>> is one of a number of important priorities. It is really a terrible terrible thing.
>>>> It’s really a sad thing when a long time leader chooses to resign
>>>> from our Federation family. I just feel terrible about it. On the
>>>> other hand, sometimes people need to do what they need to do. And I
>>>> feel very confident that the new administration and other members
>>>> are doing some outstanding work! This whole guide dog matters
>>>> training each month. Wonderful programs so far. Thank you Stacey and
>>>> Michael and team. This Thursday National Federation of the Blind of
>>>> Colorado, Colorado Association of guide dog users, Colorado Center
>>>> for the Blind and National Association of guide dog users are
>>>> holding a comma know your rights, mountain time at five. We hope
>>>> you’ll join us. Lots of great work getting done by the entire
>>>> Federation family. And, not only that, rock ‘n’ roll is here to stay. Stay safe everyone and thanks to all for your support, commitment and leader ship.
>>>> And let’s go build the national Federation of the blind
>>>>
>>>> At Your Service,
>>>> Kevan Worley
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 9, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That is what a resolution is supposed to be about. The resolutions
>>>>> are,
>>>> as stated every year, the policy of the organization. If the
>>>> president and other leaders do not follow through then they should
>>>> not be leading the organization.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU On Behalf Of marianne denning via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:57 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users' <
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: marianne at denningweb.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>>>>
>>>>> While I believe writing a resolution and passing it is a great idea
>>>>> it
>>>> is meaningless unless we put the power of the NFB behind it.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hingson
>>>>> via
>>>> NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 11:10 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users' <
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com; 'Tracy Carcione' <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Part of the difficulty here is within our own organization. Do we
>>>>> have
>>>> the commitment to, organizationally speaking, take a stand against
>>>> such things as what happened to this lady? Are we finally ready to
>>>> take a stand against schools retaining ownership and thus demeaning
>>>> all of us? Are we ready to recognize that instead of being beholding
>>>> to guide dog schools and giving them passes when they misbehave as
>>>> may have happened with South Eastern we are ready to recognize that
>>>> guide dog schools are providing a service and that they do not own us?
>>>>>
>>>>> In the past, debates concerning guide dog schools have come up on
>>>>> the
>>>> National convention floor amidst fierce debate due to people feeling
>>>> we should have gratitude toward guide dog schools and not holding
>>>> these schools to a higher standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> NAGDU as a division of the NFB should step in and lead a real
>>>>> effort to
>>>> bring about change in the attitudes toward blind people by guide dog
>>>> schools. This does include real dog ownership, trust of clients and
>>>> a real appeals process if there is a dispute between schools and
>>>> clients. As we are seeing with other aspects of our movement today,
>>>> we should be supporting the lady involved. The school is NOT going
>>>> to provide NAGDU with any more information than it has provided in
>>>> the past. Has NAGDU reached out to the lady who unexpected and,
>>>> apparently, unreasonably had her guide removed? A "neutral
>>>> investigation" is fine, but there is nothing wrong with starting by accepting the word of the victim here and going on from there.
>>>> South Eastern has a track record of improper treatment of others
>>>> whom it says mistreated guide dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> NAGDU is a consumer organization and should therefore start by
>>>>> accepting
>>>> the word of the consumer and going from there. This situation is not
>>>> a new one. NAGDU should be on the front line in working hard and
>>>> publicly for change. Raul, we have a National convention coming up.
>>>> I'm happy to help you write a resolution defining Federation policy
>>>> for this. Also, I would hope you would be addressing this with
>>>> President Riccobono and getting lawyers involved and reversing this
>>>> kind of action. This is what you signed up for when you accepted the
>>>> presidency. You do have our support. If people won't support you if
>>>> you take the actions I submitted here then shame on them. Either we
>>>> fight for the rights of blind people or we stop complaining. It really is that simple.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 6:33 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users' <
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we should do something more immediate, like help Rev. Blake
>>>> appeal the seizure of her dog. Assuming Southeastern has some kind
>>>> of appeal process, if only on paper.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jody
>>>>> ianuzzi
>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 9:12 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: Jody ianuzzi
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>>>>
>>>>> This story is horrifying! There is no way that I would give up a
>>>>> dog
>>>> without a fight. I would go back in my house and lock the door and
>>>> tell them they have to take legal action. I would go to the media
>>>> and any other means available! There was no way that I would
>>>> handover my dog under these circumstances!
>>>>>
>>>>> I am so glad I got my dog from a School the grant full ownership
>>>>> to the
>>>> handler when they graduate!
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we have to get the word out and perhaps people will no
>>>>> longer
>>>> apply to southeastern for a dog. See how they handle the situation
>>>> when they have no applicants!
>>>>>
>>>>> JODY
>>>>>
>>>>> To Boldly Go 🖖🏻
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way." NO
>>>>> BARRIERS
>>>> Erik Weihenmayer
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 8, 2021, at 10:56 PM, Susan Jones via NAGDU
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Repossessing a dog at that age is CRIMINAL!
>>>>>> And to think they charge $5,000 for a dog that old, a dog that
>>>>>> will most probably have health problems that need attention, and
>>>>>> possibly bonding and fear issues from being separated from a
>>>>>> handler they have
>>>> loved for so long!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Criminal!
>>>>>> Susan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sandra Johnson
>>>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 12:45 PM
>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Sandra Johnson <sljohnson25 at comcast.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marion:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No wonder they want their grads to retire their dogs when they
>>>>>> turn 11 years old, Every dog returned to them is another $5,000
>>>>>> in their
>>>> pockets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Marion
>>>>>> Gwizdala, via NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:55 AM
>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Marion Gwizdala, <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You ask, "what in the world does a guide dog school do with a five
>>>>>> or six-year-old dog they have taken from a handler?" Well, since
>>>>>> this dog in question was nearly ten years old, it furthers begs
>>>>>> the question. The answer is they adopt it out for $5,000.
>>>>>> https://www.guidedogs.org/public-adoption/),Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>> (813) 626-2789
>>>>>> Blind411 at verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Richard via
>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 10:09 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: richardfiorello716 at gmail.com
>>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] doggy repo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This brings up a few rather interesting questions. What in the
>>>>>> world does a school do with a five or six year old dog that they
>>>>>> have taken from a handler? Apparently if the dog is under three
>>>>>> there is demand and maybe money from fire departments and similar
>>>>>> organizations. The one dog that I had to send back the school
>>>>>> very much insisted that he come back prior to three years old and
>>>>>> he went into the bomb sniffing
>>>> business.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for gdf please understand I have never contacted the school and
>>>>>> have zero first hand knowledge about their program. When
>>>>>> attending another program a class member was a former gdf
>>>>>> graduate. For the entire time I was there he kept saying that
>>>>>> veterans get the good dogs and blind people get the left overs.
>>>>>> The only thing that gets me curious is that I am sure that VA pays
>>>>>> a school for whatever dogs they are taking ownership of. Has
>>>>>> anyone else felt this to be the case or
>>>> was this gentlemen just handing out bad information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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