[NAGDU] audible traffic signals

Mon Sep 20 22:27:23 UTC 2021

This is a great discussion, and I loved Heather's post in particular.

We have an audible pedestrian signal outside our apartment. It's at an
intersection I could probably easily cross without it. But the problem
is exactly what others mentioned above. I have noticed on several
occasions cars crossing in front of me when the signal starts counting
down, or the cars have started to go, even though the signal is still
counting. So, I guess on the bright side, my dog is not learning to
trust the signal and always waits for my cue. He has been great about
the traffic checks we got the first couple times cars pulled out in
front of us too.

I think the signals can be helpful at some intersections and
misleading at others. Sometimes I have a hard time figuring out where
the signal is directing you to cross the street, which, to be fair,
can be figured out through other techniques, but it gets confusing at
a completely new intersection. I encountered this once in Colorado and
was actually stumped by the audible signal rather than helped by it.

It's amazing how expensive audible signals they are, and I'm not sure
why the costs are so high when we can figure out how to reduce costs
in society on so many other fronts. That only matters because I fully
realize that in many instances sighted people are deciding where we
need audible pedestrian signals, and they are so often wrong.

Julie

On 9/20/21, Kevan Worley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I have become a huge fan of audible or, accessible pedestrian traffic
> signals. Interestingly, I find them more useful in downtown areas where
> there may be one-way streets or at night there is little to no traffic for
> several minutes. No way I can tell the lights changed. Do I want to run it
> or wait and wait and wait for a car to go one way or another. But I will say
> AP s are very expensive. I don’t know why someone has not yet developed an
> app of some sort that you can point at the signal and get that information.
> Too bad it’s not available on foursquare or seeing AI or something like
> that. That would be awesome! Several months ago at one of our national
> Federation of the blind of Colorado zoom mountain time at five programs we
> did an excellent roundtable discussing pedestrian signals. That might still
> be up on YouTube probably is
>
> At Your Service,
> Kevan Worley
>
>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Al Sten-Clanton via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I use the audible traffic signals very much with what Mike says in mind.
>> I once opposed them because NFB generally did for a long time, and in the
>> early days because the few I knew about were unhelpful and louder than the
>> cars that could kill me.  I mostly use them now either (1) because I'd use
>> those crossings anyway or (2) because I have some hope that a crossing
>> with an audible signal may be a little safer than a closer crossing
>> without one.
>>
>>
>> Frankly, I think the main purpose of traffic setups has become the
>> eradication of pedestrians.  Midblock crossings seem to have multiplied
>> like locusts, so that there's no parallel traffic to hear.  I think right
>> on red is a bad idea, since it means not all the parallel traffic will
>> stay parallel while I cross, and I wish I'd had the brains to support the
>> resolution presented opposing it at my first national convention in 1979.
>> My dogs have so far helped me stay clear of car bumpers, but I think the
>> current traffic setups are often needless evils for pedestrians of all
>> sorts.
>>
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>>> On 9/20/21 3:30 PM, Michael Hingson via NAGDU wrote:
>>> APS can be helpful, but they will not and cannot replace you listening to
>>> traffic. As Susan said, " It will signal you to cross when the traffic is
>>> hopefully doing the right thing, and drivers should expect pedestrians to
>>> cross". "Supposed" is the operative term here. As with sighted
>>> pedestrians, blind pedestrians cannot and should not rely totally on APS.
>>> All the signal tells you is that traffic direction should be in your
>>> favor. Especially today where drivers are paying less and less attention
>>> to pedestrian traffic we must be more vigilant.
>>>
>>> An APS can be especially helpful on a wide street as typically, with
>>> signals on both sides of the street you can keep a better straight line
>>> across the street. However again, you as the pedestrian need to pay most
>>> attention to the traffic around you.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Susan Jones via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 12:20 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
>>>
>>> Good issue for discussion.
>>>
>>> They now call them Accessible Pedestrian Signals, APS With a wide street
>>> like that, you definitely need one.  It will signal you to cross when the
>>> traffic is hopefully doing the right thing, and drivers should expect
>>> pedestrians to cross.
>>> ACB has done a lot more with APS's than has the NFB.  I lobbied for one
>>> years ago, b/c we have a street in our neighborhood that is extremely
>>> busy, but the side streets are not, so you don't get any paralel traffic
>>> that would clue you that it's time to cross.
>>> I feel much safer with that APS, though of course I listen for oncoming
>>> traffic as well.
>>>
>>> Susan
>>>
>>> sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of rebecca.young1264---
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 2:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: rebecca.young1264 at outlook.com
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
>>>
>>> Good afternoon. I don’t have problems crossing the streets with just
>>> normal listening to the traffic. However, where we live right now, we
>>> crossed a major 8 Lane Highway to get to the other side of our street.
>>> There is a push button light there, and I do use it. However the audible
>>> signal would be nice, just to make things a little bit easier. Because my
>>> parallel traffic is also A very busy street right there. Audible signals
>>> in certain places sometimes just make things a little easier.
>>>
>>> Becky
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 1:44 PM, Richard via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi;
>>>>
>>>> Just wondering what people's thoughts are concerning audible or
>>>> accessible traffic signals?  One magically appeared a few weeks ago at
>>>> a crossing I found difficult.  Previously I wasn't a big fan listening
>>>> to traffic should be enough.  I must admit that I have found them to
>>>> be a  nice plus.  Never thought I'd say that.
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Julie A. McGinnity
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
Law, JD Candidate 2023