[NAGDU] audible traffic signals

Wed Sep 22 17:27:07 UTC 2021

Hi folks,

Interesting topic! In my area here in San Diego, we have a mixture of
signals. We have streets with no signals because it has a stop sign.
There's usually very little traffic on it. We have signal lights without
any audible signal. We have audible signals that chirp for east/west
crossings and cuckoos for north/south. There's ones that say "crossing El
Cajon Blvd" and say the other crossing by name. The one I use most is El
Cajon Blvd and 43rd Street.

Sometimes I can hear these and sometimes not. So I then just use what I've
been doing for years. Listen! Most of the time, I can use the light and the
lighted white pedestrian displayed if it is very cloudy or dusk out. Bright
sun, no. No matter what I use, I always use the techniques I learned back
in the 1970s in cane travel lessons.

Many of you who see audible signals, truncated domes as crutch, I just want
to remind people that there are people in our blind community who have a
variety of skill levels for various reasons. I know people, newly blind,
who do not have access to the high quality cane/travel training offered at
NFB training centers. Here, the quality of cane/travel training really
sucks. Same for computer training for seniors who are low-vision or less
sight. That's another can of worms for another listserv!

The problem of electric cars, buses is scary. At age 70, my vision and
hearing ain't what it was when I was 30. I believe we need to respect what
people use to accomplish a task. What may look like a crutch to one person
is maybe the thing that allows another to do something independently such
as that Say When gadget. Or using paratransit. I am qualified to use
paratransit but I use it sparingly for going to unfamiliar places. For me,
if I have never been somewhere, I cannot get that mental picture of it to
know where to go when I get off the bus. There usually are very few people
around to ask. So, the paratransit is the much less stressful for me. In my
every day travels, I use the bus or trolley. I have a monthly bus pass and
I keep paratransit tickets handy for all my travel needs.

Have a happy first day of autumn, everyone!

Lyn and Aristotle

On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 9:26 AM Star Gazer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> I remember this from when I was in the u.k. yes things are set up
> differently there, lots of shared space that we just tend not to have here.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sandra Gayer via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 11:46 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
>
> Hello,
> I'd like to speak up for tactile paving which was mentioned earlier in
> this thread; the bumpy textured paving. It doesn't sound like there's much
> "shared" space where you live. There is a large number of roads in the UK
> where there is no curb at all and I rely on these strips.
> There are discussions as to how to teach guide dogs to stop, where there
> is no curb but they haven't come up with anything yet. The day they do, I'm
> signing up for a guide dog.
>
> Tactile paving is even more vital on the edge of train platforms to denote
> the edge, particularly for us cane users.
>
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 9/21/21, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Absolutely right. First should come our own judgment with the APS as
> > only a confirmation.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sherry Gomes via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 7:55 AM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Sherry Gomes <sherry.gomes at outlook.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
> >
> > The APS in my neighborhood, speak, saying the street name and
> > direction of travel for the light when it's time to walk. I use it as
> > secondary confirmation of my traffic reading.
> >
> >
> > Sherry
> > Find out about my book Haven by checking out my web site:
> > www.sherrygomes.com
> > Or on Facebook
> > http://facebook.com/sherrygomesauthor
> > And join my group, Haven Happenings at:
> > http://facebook.com/groups/havenhappenings
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Carlos M Contreras
> > via NAGDU
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 8:46 AM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Carlos M Contreras <groups at csfam.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
> >
> > Also, some of the APS equipment can speak a recording with the name of
> > the street you are crossing if you keep touching the button for a few
> seconds.
> > In fewer places, if you keep touching the button for a few seconds, it
> > will extend the time that you will have to cross the street . This is
> > for slow walkers.
> >
> >> On Sep 21, 2021, at 8:23 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> The newer signals in my area have arrows pointing in the direction
> >> you want to walk, and, when the signal changes to Walk, the
> >> appropriate arrow vibrates.  Don't know how it would work with a
> >> star-shaped crossing, or some other weirdness, but it's good for the
> old 4-way.
> >> Tracy
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> >> Hingson via NAGDU
> >> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 9:30 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Cc: Michael Hingson
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
> >>
> >> There are signals that when you touch the button you feel a vibration
> >> after pushing it. The problem with these, especially for wide
> >> intersections is that they provide no directionality which can be
> >> invaluable especially with an intersection with many points of entry.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael Hingson
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> >> NAGDU
> >> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 6:07 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
> >>
> >> Not sure what you mean by tactile signals. I haven’t seen any, or I
> >> am just daft.
> >> Cindy
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 5:31 PM, Sandra Gayer via NAGDU
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I prefer tactile signals to audible ones so I can keep listening.
> >>> It's harder than you think when it's a 2 way street. Electric cars
> >>> are quieter than conventional engines and theithey're increasing in
> >>> popularity. The world and his wife are talking on the phone or to
> >>> each other while they're waiting to cross. I'm a cane user but
> >>> that's my view.Tactile signals plus normal listening for all
> >>> vehicles. I can't stand cyclists, they never ring their bell and
> >>> it's hard to hear them over articulated vehicles. Sorry for the rant!
> >>>
> >>> Very best wishes,
> >>> Sandra.
> >>>
> >>> On 9/20/21, Kevan Worley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>> Michael, exactly! I typically use audible pedestrian signals, I
> >>>> think they are now called accessible pedestrian signals. And that’s
> >>>> because they aren’t always audible. In fact I kind of like the ones
> >>>> that have the vibrating button and the audible. I tend to use
> >>>> audible traffic signals as my secondary source. In the same way I
> >>>> use non-blind people. You can’t always count on non-blind people to
> >>>> cross at the appropriate time. So, if the traffic pattern indicates
> >>>> that I can go and non-blind people go. That’s a pretty good
> >>>> indication that onyx won’t have to do a traffic check like all of
> >>>> you, I’m sure. I don’t really think it through that way. It’s just
> >>>> a part of how my brain now works as a blind traveler with a guide dog.
> >>>> In fact, if you guys are like me? I start listening to traffic
> >>>> patterns, probably about a half a block before I get to the next
> >>>> intersection. I don’t usually think much about it. But I know I do
> >>>> it that way. I live in Colorado Springs Colorado. And I now live
> >>>> downtown. So I’m pretty lucky! I do not have tons and tons of
> >>>> incredibly busy intersections with eight and 10 lanes of traffic
> >>>> with traffic islands and all of that. That’s what I had in my old
> >>>> neighborhood. Once I got out of the residential area to get
> >>>> anywhere was a true travel adventure! And I’m still alive! I’ve
> >>>> always enjoyed traveling as a person who is blind. I think there’s
> >>>> a little bit of an art to it if you do it well. On the other hand,
> >>>> my blind son Nijat. A cane user. At a good one. Once told me his
> >>>> strategy. Wait a cycle. And then if you can’t figure it out. Run!
> >>>> Crack me up. Safe travel y’all. Forward. Always forward!
> >>>>
> >>>> At Your Service,
> >>>> Kevan Worley
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 1:32 PM, Michael Hingson via NAGDU
> >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> APS can be helpful, but they will not and cannot replace you
> >>>>> listening to traffic. As Susan said, " It will signal you to cross
> >>>>> when the traffic is hopefully doing the right thing, and drivers
> >>>>> should expect pedestrians to cross". "Supposed" is the operative
> >>>>> term here. As with sighted pedestrians, blind pedestrians cannot
> >>>>> and should not rely totally on APS.
> >>>>> All the signal tells you is that traffic direction should be in
> >>>>> your favor. Especially today where drivers are paying less and
> >>>>> less attention to pedestrian traffic we must be more vigilant.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> An APS can be especially helpful on a wide street as typically,
> >>>>> with signals on both sides of the street you can keep a better
> >>>>> straight line across the street. However again, you as the
> >>>>> pedestrian need to pay most attention to the traffic around you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Michael Hingson
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Susan Jones
> >>>>> via NAGDU
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 12:20 PM
> >>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Cc: sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Good issue for discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They now call them Accessible Pedestrian Signals, APS With a wide
> >>>>> street like that, you definitely need one.  It will signal you to
> >>>>> cross when the traffic is hopefully doing the right thing, and
> >>>>> drivers should expect pedestrians to cross.
> >>>>> ACB has done a lot more with APS's than has the NFB.  I lobbied
> >>>>> for one years ago, b/c we have a street in our neighborhood that
> >>>>> is extremely busy, but the side streets are not, so you don't get
> >>>>> any paralel traffic that would clue you that it's time to cross.
> >>>>> I feel much safer with that APS, though of course I listen for
> >>>>> oncoming traffic as well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Susan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of
> >>>>> rebecca.young1264--- via NAGDU
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 2:55 PM
> >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>>> Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Cc: rebecca.young1264 at outlook.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] audible traffic signals
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Good afternoon. I don’t have problems crossing the streets with
> >>>>> just normal listening to the traffic. However, where we live right
> >>>>> now, we crossed a major 8 Lane Highway to get to the other side of
> >>>>> our street.
> >>>>> There is a push button light there, and I do use it. However the
> >>>>> audible signal would be nice, just to make things a little bit
> >>>>> easier. Because my parallel traffic is also A very busy street
> >>>>> right there. Audible signals in certain places sometimes just make
> >>>>> things a little easier.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Becky
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 20, 2021, at 1:44 PM, Richard via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just wondering what people's thoughts are concerning audible or
> >>>>>> accessible traffic signals?  One magically appeared a few weeks
> >>>>>> ago at a crossing I found difficult.  Previously I wasn't a big
> >>>>>> fan listening to traffic should be enough.  I must admit that I
> >>>>>> have found them to be a  nice plus.  Never thought I'd say that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Richard
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
> >>>
> >>> Soprano Singer
> >>> www.sandragayer.com
> >>>
> >>> Broadcast Presenter
> >>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
> >>>
> >>> Actor
> >>> www.visablepeople.com
> >>>
> >>> Voiceover Artist
> >>> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
> >>>
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> >>> o
> >>> m
> >>
> >>
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> --
> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>
> Soprano Singer
> www.sandragayer.com
>
> Broadcast Presenter
> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>
> Actor
> www.visablepeople.com
>
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> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
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