[NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious

Sun Jan 16 04:04:09 UTC 2022

The survey is at www.nfb.org/rideshare. This survey was created after the NFB settled a legal action with Uber in which the rideshare company agreed to train drivers, enforce nondiscrimination against service animal users and it agreed to take immediate action against drivers who discriminated against us.

Uber has in no real way lived up to its commitments as evidenced in part by the very comments we have been seeing here. Last year, Lisa Irving in San Francisco won her own case against Uber with 18 specific examples of discrimination against her and her guide dog. That case yield over $1million. Uber still does not get it.

An effort against Lyft also was begun as the Uber case was settled. However, in that instance Lyft took much more proactive action. As someone said on this list earlier this week they have not experienced nearly the problems with Lyft that they have with Uber. It will be interesting to see what next week's town hall has to say about all of this.

Best Regards,

Michael Hingson.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christina Moore via NAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 7:33 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Christina Moore <moorechristina107 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious

I have had a similar issue with Uber. I'd like to know where the survey mentioned earlier in this thread about accessing Uber is.
I also had a driver, more recently, who denied me because he said he was so afraid of my service dog that he wouldn't be able to drive. They got me another driver but I was barely on time for an appointment.
Christina

On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 10:16 PM Sharon S via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi, Brent and I were talking about this last night. Brent won't be on 
> email for a few days so I thought I would post some of what we discussed.
>
> We were saying it should be up to the driver to prove the person is 
> not wearing a mask instead of the blind person having to prove they 
> were wearing a mask. So, if the driver tells the company that they 
> refused a person of not wearing a mask they should have to provide 
> proof of that fact. Then when the dog user says the driver was wrong 
> they should be able to provide the person with that photo. I know this 
> part is a bit out of our skills but if you could have someone look at 
> the photo and say if it was you or not. Hopefully if the driver gets 
> caught lying about the person by sending in a photo of someone 
> completely different then there should then be a punishment for the driver.
>
> Just a thought because we don't think it should be up to the blind 
> person to prove the fact but it should be on the driver. After all, 
> the driver is the one who can see so therefore they are the best one to take the photo.
>
> From Shaz.
> Canberra, Australia.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, 16 January 2022 2:59 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users < 
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
> serious
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have to agree with Lynn and Mike here. It's about time that we take 
> drastic action against Uber and Lyft. I am generally not one to 
> complain about what an organization does not do when I am not helping 
> to solve the problem, but it seems as though dog denials are 
> increasing and our response to them as an organization is falling off.
>
> I, too have been denied a ride and then received a message that the 
> driver canceled because I was supposedly not wearing a mask. Not true, obviously.
> I believe this happened to me twice, once right after the start of the 
> pandemic, and once last summer. My last Uber denial, one of the last 
> trips I took with my now retired guide, was so bad. The driver told me 
> to my face that he would not take me, that he did not care what 
> happened to him, and that he did not care I would be 15 minutes late 
> for class. (This denial was the second one I had experienced that 
> morning.) I was 8 months pregnant and very uncomfortable and 
> emotional. I was not mean, but I did cry while trying to explain the 
> law to him. That particular denial got me thinking about all kinds of 
> dangerous situations. What if it had been hot outside and I had to wait in the heat while in that condition?
> What if I had had my baby with me? I have heard of blind people, even 
> without dogs, being denied Ubers with their children. When these 
> drivers deny us, they are generally insensitive and sometimes rude to 
> the point where we question our safety. And with a baby now, I think 
> about safety much more than I ever did before.
>
> All that to say, this is a problem and it should be one of our highest 
> priorities. I would like to do what I can to help. I am now 
> technically between dogs and caring for a very young baby, so I may 
> not be able to offer as much as I would like at the moment. But we 
> need to show Uber and Lyft that we are not going away and that we will 
> take them to court, give them ba press, whatever it takes. I saw an 
> article in the New York Times today about how Covid tests are 
> inaccessible to blind people. I know there has been some press about 
> Uber and Lyft denials, but have we gotten an article in a paper like 
> the NY Times? Or maybe we could form a relationship with a reporter 
> who could do a series. I love the Lyft video idea and am trying to encourage those around me to help with that.
>
> The bottom line is that we rely on Lyft and Uber. The drivers are 
> blatantly breaking the law, and they don't care about the consequences 
> because Uber does not enforce its own policies. We absolutely must 
> show them that the ADA is a civil rights law, just like any other, and 
> that there is no excuse.
>
> Julie
>
>
> On 1/15/22, judotina48kg--- via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > I agree with Michael. I believe it is time to take a more aggressive 
> > approach with respect to Uber and its discriminative practices with 
> > their policies concerning Guide and Service dogs.
> > Tina and the Little Man
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hingson via 
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:14 PM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
> > serious
> >
> > Cindy,
> >
> > I agree. However, Uber especially continues to flaunt its lack of 
> > real interest in fixing the problems in spite of the legal 
> > settlement and the multi-year input from the NFB. The NFB is doing 
> > quite a bit, but I can but wonder if it is time once again to 
> > litigate. It will be interesting to hear about Lyft concerns, but 
> > there is no way to doubt for most of us that Uber is still the bigger elephant in the room.
> > Lisa Irving won her own Uber law suit last year and even so, nothing
> seems to be changing in Uber's mindset.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via 
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:08 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
> > serious
> >
> > Lynn, I’m not sure what you mean by the Nfb and ACB can’t do 
> > anything about Lyft and Uber. We’ve been working on it for years, 
> > and in someways things are better. The drivers have just learned 
> > that they found a new weapon Dash no masks. And even if it’s a lie, 
> > they’re using it until they’re not able to anymore. Nfb and probably 
> > a CB two are working on it still. The idea of risking Lyft and Uber 
> > going bankrupt is a bad idea for those of us who don’t have bus 
> > service and trolley service and train service etc., because taxi 
> > services hire. I
> don’t think we would want to take that route personally.
> > This is, of course, my point of you. At the same time, I definitely 
> > deplore what they are doing. I hope at some point we can get enough 
> > creativity about us that they can begin to see we really and truly 
> > mean business. Cindy Lou Ray, moderator,  Cindy ray at gmail.com
> >
> > Cindy Lou Ray
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 PM, Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU 
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> How about finding a friendly reporter from the press or tv news?
> >> Maybe Uber and Lyft need some bad press to go with law suits. Too 
> >> bad we couldn't get a big public boycott so Uber and Lyft risk 
> >> going bankrupt. This is really disgusting and it sucks that NFB and 
> >> ACB cant do anything. I dont use these platforms because of these 
> >> bigoted drivers and I cant afford it anyway. I take buses, the 
> >> trolley, and paratransit for all my transportation needs.
> >>
> >> Lyn and Aristotle
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 1:13 PM robert stigile via NAGDU 
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Annette,
> >>> No, I have not had it where they said I was not wearing a mask. 
> >>> But, I had to Ubers in a row a week ago canceled and it was raining a lot.
> >>> So I reported him, and uber called me to find out what happened 
> >>> and I told him and one of the drivers was blatant and his 
> >>> discrimination and they still said they educated him and he is  
> >>> back on the platform just don’t get it!
> >>>
> >>> Robert Stigile, Second Vice-President National Federation of the 
> >>> Blind of California President San Fernando Valley Chapter
> >>> 818-381-9568
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 12:36 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU 
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Anette. What you are saying is unfortunately all too common.
> >>>> I'm not
> >>> great at taking selfies so I'll leave that topic alone but will be 
> >>> interested in the perspectives of others on that. However, I think 
> >>> it would be worth reaching out to the state protection and 
> >>> advocacy agency as you suggest. Unfortunately Uber's terms and 
> >>> conditions have an arbitration clause which is limiting. However, 
> >>> some people have filed state law contract claims and I'm hearing 
> >>> that some are exploring small claims court actions depending on 
> >>> whether it's viable in the state they are in. I'm sorry to hear 
> >>> that about the AG as far as the criminal law front. I would say 
> >>> get some legal advice and don't give up. I'm so sorry to hear you 
> >>> are one more person who has experienced this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Melissa
> >>>>
> >>>> Melissa Allman
> >>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing 
> >>>> Eye P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> >>>> 1 Seeing Eye Way, Morristown, NJ 07960-3378 (deliveries)
> >>>> 973-539-4425 ext. x1724 | mallman at seeingeye.org | 
> >>>> www.SeeingEye.org
> >>>>
> >>>> Your support helps us create extraordinary teams. Please help The 
> >>>> Seeing
> >>> Eye by making a donation today.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of annette via 
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:23 PM
> >>>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Cc: annette <annettenowakowski at att.net>
> >>>> Subject: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
> >>>> serious
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello all,
> >>>>
> >>>> Yesterday I was waiting for my Huber ride with my guide dog in 
> >>>> harness
> >>> and I was wearing a mask.  When the driver approached and saw me 
> >>> he drove off.  I received a text from Huber saying that my request 
> >>> could not be filled.  I requested another rife from Huber.  This 
> >>> time the app wanted me to take a selfie with my mask on and send 
> >>> it to
> them.
> >>> By now, I was going to be late for my appointment.  I gave up on 
> >>> Huber and took Lift.  For my return trip, I requested a trip with 
> >>> Huber.  I got the same message about taking a photo.  I tried a 
> >>> couple of times but could not get the  photo done.  I asked for 
> >>> some sighted help.  I received an email from Huber stating that 
> >>> the driver reported that I was not wearing a mask which is a lie.  
> >>> The email said that if there were multiple attempts to ride 
> >>> without a mask, I will lose access to the app.  Now, I have this on my record.
> >>> If this driver pulled this stunt, more drivers will do it as well 
> >>> and
> get away
> >>> with it.  I reported this to the   ridership survey and am going to
> >>> contact  Huber.  Has this happened to anyone else?  Does anyone 
> >>> have any tips on how to take a selfie for the Huber app?  I feel 
> >>> so helpless.  It’s my word against the driver, and the driver wins.
> >>> Huber sides with the driver and against the customer.  A couple of 
> >>> years ago, I complained to Huber about a refusal of service.  
> >>> Huber just said they would talk to the driver, but no disciplinary 
> >>> action was taken.  I know NFB’s history of taking action against 
> >>> Huber and Lift, but feel something else must be done.  Who 
> >>> regulates Huber and Lift?  In the past, someone suggested filing a 
> >>> criminal misdemeanor against the driver.  However, the city and 
> >>> county states attorneys here in St. Louis have dismal prosecution 
> >>> records and thousands of misdemeanors cases, and I don’t think I 
> >>> would get far.  Should I report this to the Attorney General, 
> >>> Protection and Advocacy, the BBB or who?
> >>>>
> >>>> Annette
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> --
> Julie A. McGinnity
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of 
> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>
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