[NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious
Cindy Ray
cindyray at gmail.com
Mon Jan 17 02:25:10 UTC 2022
Hi Jessica, if you think you’ve got four years left, I wouldn’t think about it too much yet. There’s a Lotta good time left even with the denials. I made that decision pretty much, but part of it is that age I am and how long it’s going to be before I can get a dog. Also, I hadn’t used him for a while, and I felt like I just needed a dog more. I’m not real happy about that decision, because I loved having a guide. However, I personally am having some health issues that I have to be concerned about first. So I’ll just probably not get one. But I do feel your pain. My husband doesn’t want me to get one for those reasons. And it is getting to be more and more stressful. But I think that we should all work together to try to get through this so that there can be lots of happy dog matches. I hope you’ll do that too. Again, I know it is hard. I was only denied once, and I wasn’t sure I couldn’t do it again.
Cindy Lou Ray
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 16, 2022, at 8:07 PM, Jessica Diaz via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Oh my gosh. I also am debating whether I want another also after my TSE girl Shannon retires in probably 4 years. I just get so tired of denials and also educating public on access. My hubby and I think we will just adopt a TSE career change smiles so we can still support the organization.
> Jessica.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 1:44 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious
>
> Alysha,
>
> I hear you on this. I am seriously debating whether I want another dog after Ari retires or not. With the stuff with airlines, rideshares, taxis, vicious dogs being brought out in public by owners who dont give a damn about the safety of the public.
>
> I refuse to jump through hoops and fight forever for the things non disabled have access to with no problem or a thought. I will not put up with disrespectful behavior towards me. I'm getting too old for that. I have fought for things all my life and now I'm tired. I just want to live my life in peace with as few hassles as possible. I am respectful of others except for people who let their unruly pets snarl and try to attack my dog on the sidewalks, in stores. I have learned that there are people who refuse to educated such as Uber drivers and the company itself. I am happy to educate someone sincerely wants to learn. But you cant fix stupid.
>
> Lyn and Aristotle
>
>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 10:22 AM Alysha Hiller via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I also 100% agree with what has been said. I often don't bring my dog
>> on trips when I take Uber and Lyft because I just don't want to deal
>> with the potential for denials. Is this letting the law breakers win?
>> Yes it is. But I need to do my best to make sure I can get where I
>> need to go on time. I would be even more reluctant to roll the dice on
>> an Uber trip when traveling with my children. Issues like these and
>> all the problems with the airlines are also a factor in my decision
>> not to apply for a successor dog once my current guide retires. I love
>> working a dog and find my dog very helpful for mobility, but there
>> comes a point when the access denials and battles start to negate some
>> of the positives of having a guide dog. I don't know what the answer is, but clearly more work needs to be done.
>>
>> Best,
>> Alysha
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Diane Graves via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 12:09 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: rdgraves2007 at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
>> serious
>>
>> I agree with the foregoing comments completely.
>>
>> , I am on my first dog. We'Ve been together for almost 5 years now and
>> we hopefully have several good working years left. However, one of the
>> biggest considerations that come into play when I think about whether
>> or not there will be a second dog is the situation with these Uber and
>> Lyft drivers and having to fight with them every time I wan to get from point A to point B.
>>
>> I don't live in a neighborhood that is conducive to bus travel, so
>> sometimes these services are our only option. Do I really want to
>> spend so much time and energy wondering whether I'll get denied a ride
>> to my destination or wondering whether I'll get home once I get there
>> because of these people who are allowed to break the law so blatantly.
>> Is it worth the battle?
>>
>> Something really does need to be done. It does absolutely no good to
>> have a policy or a settlement agreement on paper if you aren't going
>> to enforce it.
>>
>> Diane Graves
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:59 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
>> serious
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have to agree with Lynn and Mike here. It's about time that we take
>> drastic action against Uber and Lyft. I am generally not one to
>> complain about what an organization does not do when I am not helping
>> to solve the problem, but it seems as though dog denials are
>> increasing and our response to them as an organization is falling off.
>>
>> I, too have been denied a ride and then received a message that the
>> driver canceled because I was supposedly not wearing a mask. Not true, obviously.
>> I believe this happened to me twice, once right after the start of the
>> pandemic, and once last summer. My last Uber denial, one of the last
>> trips I took with my now retired guide, was so bad. The driver told me
>> to my face that he would not take me, that he did not care what
>> happened to him, and that he did not care I would be 15 minutes late
>> for class. (This denial was the second one I had experienced that
>> morning.) I was 8 months pregnant and very uncomfortable and
>> emotional. I was not mean, but I did cry while trying to explain the
>> law to him. That particular denial got me thinking about all kinds of
>> dangerous situations. What if it had been hot outside and I had to wait in the heat while in that condition?
>> What if I had had my baby with me? I have heard of blind people, even
>> without dogs, being denied Ubers with their children. When these
>> drivers deny us, they are generally insensitive and sometimes rude to
>> the point where we question our safety. And with a baby now, I think
>> about safety much more than I ever did before.
>>
>> All that to say, this is a problem and it should be one of our highest
>> priorities. I would like to do what I can to help. I am now
>> technically between dogs and caring for a very young baby, so I may
>> not be able to offer as much as I would like at the moment. But we
>> need to show Uber and Lyft that we are not going away and that we will
>> take them to court, give them ba press, whatever it takes. I saw an
>> article in the New York Times today about how Covid tests are
>> inaccessible to blind people. I know there has been some press about
>> Uber and Lyft denials, but have we gotten an article in a paper like
>> the NY Times? Or maybe we could form a relationship with a reporter
>> who could do a series. I love the Lyft video idea and am trying to encourage those around me to help with that.
>>
>> The bottom line is that we rely on Lyft and Uber. The drivers are
>> blatantly breaking the law, and they don't care about the consequences
>> because Uber does not enforce its own policies. We absolutely must
>> show them that the ADA is a civil rights law, just like any other, and
>> that there is no excuse.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>> On 1/15/22, judotina48kg--- via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I agree with Michael. I believe it is time to take a more aggressive
>>> approach with respect to Uber and its discriminative practices with
>>> their policies concerning Guide and Service dogs.
>>> Tina and the Little Man
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hingson via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:14 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
>>> serious
>>>
>>> Cindy,
>>>
>>> I agree. However, Uber especially continues to flaunt its lack of
>>> real interest in fixing the problems in spite of the legal
>>> settlement and the multi-year input from the NFB. The NFB is doing
>>> quite a bit, but I can but wonder if it is time once again to
>>> litigate. It will be interesting to hear about Lyft concerns, but
>>> there is no way to doubt for most of us that Uber is still the bigger elephant in the room.
>>> Lisa Irving won her own Uber law suit last year and even so, nothing
>> seems to be changing in Uber's mindset.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:08 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
>>> serious
>>>
>>> Lynn, I’m not sure what you mean by the Nfb and ACB can’t do
>>> anything about Lyft and Uber. We’ve been working on it for years,
>>> and in someways things are better. The drivers have just learned
>>> that they found a new weapon Dash no masks. And even if it’s a lie,
>>> they’re using it until they’re not able to anymore. Nfb and probably
>>> a CB two are working on it still. The idea of risking Lyft and Uber
>>> going bankrupt is a bad idea for those of us who don’t have bus
>>> service and trolley service and train service etc., because taxi
>>> services hire. I
>> don’t think we would want to take that route personally.
>>> This is, of course, my point of you. At the same time, I definitely
>>> deplore what they are doing. I hope at some point we can get enough
>>> creativity about us that they can begin to see we really and truly
>>> mean business. Cindy Lou Ray, moderator, Cindy ray at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 PM, Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>>
>>>> How about finding a friendly reporter from the press or tv news?
>>>> Maybe Uber and Lyft need some bad press to go with law suits. Too
>>>> bad we couldn't get a big public boycott so Uber and Lyft risk
>>>> going bankrupt. This is really disgusting and it sucks that NFB and
>>>> ACB cant do anything. I dont use these platforms because of these
>>>> bigoted drivers and I cant afford it anyway. I take buses, the
>>>> trolley, and paratransit for all my transportation needs.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Aristotle
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 1:13 PM robert stigile via NAGDU
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Annette,
>>>>> No, I have not had it where they said I was not wearing a mask.
>>>>> But, I had to Ubers in a row a week ago canceled and it was raining a lot.
>>>>> So I reported him, and uber called me to find out what happened
>>>>> and I told him and one of the drivers was blatant and his
>>>>> discrimination and they still said they educated him and he is
>>>>> back on the platform just don’t get it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Stigile, Second Vice-President National Federation of the
>>>>> Blind of California President San Fernando Valley Chapter
>>>>> 818-381-9568
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 12:36 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Anette. What you are saying is unfortunately all too common.
>>>>>> I'm not
>>>>> great at taking selfies so I'll leave that topic alone but will be
>>>>> interested in the perspectives of others on that. However, I think
>>>>> it would be worth reaching out to the state protection and
>>>>> advocacy agency as you suggest. Unfortunately Uber's terms and
>>>>> conditions have an arbitration clause which is limiting. However,
>>>>> some people have filed state law contract claims and I'm hearing
>>>>> that some are exploring small claims court actions depending on
>>>>> whether it's viable in the state they are in. I'm sorry to hear
>>>>> that about the AG as far as the criminal law front. I would say
>>>>> get some legal advice and don't give up. I'm so sorry to hear you
>>>>> are one more person who has experienced this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Melissa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Melissa Allman
>>>>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing
>>>>>> Eye P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>>>>> 1 Seeing Eye Way, Morristown, NJ 07960-3378 (deliveries)
>>>>>> 973-539-4425 ext. x1724 | mallman at seeingeye.org |
>>>>>> www.SeeingEye.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your support helps us create extraordinary teams. Please help The
>>>>>> Seeing
>>>>> Eye by making a donation today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of annette via
>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:23 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: annette <annettenowakowski at att.net>
>>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
>>>>>> serious
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday I was waiting for my Huber ride with my guide dog in
>>>>>> harness
>>>>> and I was wearing a mask. When the driver approached and saw me
>>>>> he drove off. I received a text from Huber saying that my request
>>>>> could not be filled. I requested another rife from Huber. This
>>>>> time the app wanted me to take a selfie with my mask on and send
>>>>> it to
>> them.
>>>>> By now, I was going to be late for my appointment. I gave up on
>>>>> Huber and took Lift. For my return trip, I requested a trip with
>>>>> Huber. I got the same message about taking a photo. I tried a
>>>>> couple of times but could not get the photo done. I asked for
>>>>> some sighted help. I received an email from Huber stating that
>>>>> the driver reported that I was not wearing a mask which is a lie.
>>>>> The email said that if there were multiple attempts to ride
>>>>> without a mask, I will lose access to the app. Now, I have this on my record.
>>>>> If this driver pulled this stunt, more drivers will do it as well
>>>>> and
>> get away
>>>>> with it. I reported this to the ridership survey and am going to
>>>>> contact Huber. Has this happened to anyone else? Does anyone
>>>>> have any tips on how to take a selfie for the Huber app? I feel
>>>>> so helpless. It’s my word against the driver, and the driver wins.
>>>>> Huber sides with the driver and against the customer. A couple of
>>>>> years ago, I complained to Huber about a refusal of service.
>>>>> Huber just said they would talk to the driver, but no disciplinary
>>>>> action was taken. I know NFB’s history of taking action against
>>>>> Huber and Lift, but feel something else must be done. Who
>>>>> regulates Huber and Lift? In the past, someone suggested filing a
>>>>> criminal misdemeanor against the driver. However, the city and
>>>>> county states attorneys here in St. Louis have dismal prosecution
>>>>> records and thousands of misdemeanors cases, and I don’t think I
>>>>> would get far. Should I report this to the Attorney General,
>>>>> Protection and Advocacy, the BBB or who?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Annette
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> Julie A. McGinnity
>> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
>> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>>
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