[NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Mon Jan 17 02:25:10 UTC 2022


Hi Jessica, if you think you’ve got four years left, I wouldn’t think about it too much yet. There’s a Lotta good time left even with the denials. I made that decision pretty much, but part of it is that age I am and how long it’s going to be before I can get a dog. Also, I hadn’t used him for a while, and I felt like I just needed a dog more. I’m not real happy about that decision, because I loved having a guide. However, I personally am having some health issues that I have to be concerned about first. So I’ll just probably not get one. But I do feel your pain. My husband doesn’t want me to get one for those reasons. And it is getting to be more and more stressful. But I think that we should all work together to try to get through this so that there can be lots of happy dog matches. I hope you’ll do that too. Again, I know it is hard.  I was only denied once, and I wasn’t sure I couldn’t do it again. 

Cindy Lou Ray
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2022, at 8:07 PM, Jessica Diaz via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Oh my gosh. I also am debating whether I want another also after my TSE girl Shannon retires in probably 4 years. I just get so tired of denials and also educating public on access. My hubby and I think we will just adopt a TSE career change smiles so we can still support the organization.
> Jessica.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 1:44 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious
> 
> Alysha,
> 
> I hear you on this. I am seriously debating whether I want another dog after Ari retires or not.  With the stuff with airlines, rideshares, taxis, vicious dogs being brought out in public by owners who dont give a damn about the safety of the public.
> 
> I refuse to jump through hoops and fight forever for the things non disabled have access to with no problem or a thought. I will not put up with disrespectful behavior towards me. I'm getting too old for that. I have fought for things all my life and now I'm tired. I just want to live my life in peace with as few hassles as possible. I am respectful of others except for people who let their unruly pets snarl and try to attack my dog on the sidewalks, in stores. I have learned that there are people who refuse to educated such as Uber drivers and the company itself. I am happy to educate someone sincerely wants to learn. But you cant fix stupid.
> 
> Lyn and Aristotle
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 10:22 AM Alysha Hiller via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I also 100% agree with what has been said. I often don't bring my dog 
>> on trips when I take Uber and Lyft because I just don't want to deal 
>> with the potential for denials. Is this letting the law breakers win? 
>> Yes it is. But I need to do my best to make sure I can get where I 
>> need to go on time. I would be even more reluctant to roll the dice on 
>> an Uber trip when traveling with my children. Issues like these and 
>> all the problems with the airlines are also a factor in my decision 
>> not to apply for a successor dog once my current guide retires. I love 
>> working a dog and find my dog very helpful for mobility, but there 
>> comes a point when the access denials and battles start to negate some 
>> of the positives of having a guide dog. I don't know what the answer is, but clearly more work needs to be done.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Alysha
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Diane Graves via 
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 12:09 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: rdgraves2007 at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
>> serious
>> 
>> I agree with the foregoing comments completely.
>> 
>> , I am on my first dog. We'Ve been together for almost 5 years now and 
>> we hopefully have several good working years left. However, one of the 
>> biggest considerations that come into play  when I think about whether 
>> or not there will be a second dog is the situation with these Uber and 
>> Lyft drivers and having to fight with them every time I wan to get from point A to point B.
>> 
>> I don't live in a neighborhood that is conducive to bus travel, so 
>> sometimes these services are our only option. Do I really want to 
>> spend so much time and energy wondering whether I'll get denied a ride 
>> to my destination or wondering whether I'll get home once I get there 
>> because of these people who are allowed to break the law so blatantly. 
>> Is it worth the battle?
>> 
>> Something really does need to be done. It does absolutely no good to 
>> have a policy or a settlement agreement on paper if you aren't going 
>> to enforce it.
>> 
>> Diane Graves
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:59 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users < 
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
>> serious
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have to agree with Lynn and Mike here. It's about time that we take 
>> drastic action against Uber and Lyft. I am generally not one to 
>> complain about what an organization does not do when I am not helping 
>> to solve the problem, but it seems as though dog denials are 
>> increasing and our response to them as an organization is falling off.
>> 
>> I, too have been denied a ride and then received a message that the 
>> driver canceled because I was supposedly not wearing a mask. Not true, obviously.
>> I believe this happened to me twice, once right after the start of the 
>> pandemic, and once last summer. My last Uber denial, one of the last 
>> trips I took with my now retired guide, was so bad. The driver told me 
>> to my face that he would not take me, that he did not care what 
>> happened to him, and that he did not care I would be 15 minutes late 
>> for class. (This denial was the second one I had experienced that 
>> morning.) I was 8 months pregnant and very uncomfortable and 
>> emotional. I was not mean, but I did cry while trying to explain the 
>> law to him. That particular denial got me thinking about all kinds of 
>> dangerous situations. What if it had been hot outside and I had to wait in the heat while in that condition?
>> What if I had had my baby with me? I have heard of blind people, even 
>> without dogs, being denied Ubers with their children. When these 
>> drivers deny us, they are generally insensitive and sometimes rude to 
>> the point where we question our safety. And with a baby now, I think 
>> about safety much more than I ever did before.
>> 
>> All that to say, this is a problem and it should be one of our highest 
>> priorities. I would like to do what I can to help. I am now 
>> technically between dogs and caring for a very young baby, so I may 
>> not be able to offer as much as I would like at the moment. But we 
>> need to show Uber and Lyft that we are not going away and that we will 
>> take them to court, give them ba press, whatever it takes. I saw an 
>> article in the New York Times today about how Covid tests are 
>> inaccessible to blind people. I know there has been some press about 
>> Uber and Lyft denials, but have we gotten an article in a paper like 
>> the NY Times? Or maybe we could form a relationship with a reporter 
>> who could do a series. I love the Lyft video idea and am trying to encourage those around me to help with that.
>> 
>> The bottom line is that we rely on Lyft and Uber. The drivers are 
>> blatantly breaking the law, and they don't care about the consequences 
>> because Uber does not enforce its own policies. We absolutely must 
>> show them that the ADA is a civil rights law, just like any other, and 
>> that there is no excuse.
>> 
>> Julie
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/15/22, judotina48kg--- via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I agree with Michael. I believe it is time to take a more aggressive 
>>> approach with respect to Uber and its discriminative practices with 
>>> their policies concerning Guide and Service dogs.
>>> Tina and the Little Man
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hingson via 
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:14 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
>>> serious
>>> 
>>> Cindy,
>>> 
>>> I agree. However, Uber especially continues to flaunt its lack of 
>>> real interest in fixing the problems in spite of the legal 
>>> settlement and the multi-year input from the NFB. The NFB is doing 
>>> quite a bit, but I can but wonder if it is time once again to 
>>> litigate. It will be interesting to hear about Lyft concerns, but 
>>> there is no way to doubt for most of us that Uber is still the bigger elephant in the room.
>>> Lisa Irving won her own Uber law suit last year and even so, nothing
>> seems to be changing in Uber's mindset.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael Hingson
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via 
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:08 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
>>> serious
>>> 
>>> Lynn, I’m not sure what you mean by the Nfb and ACB can’t do 
>>> anything about Lyft and Uber. We’ve been working on it for years, 
>>> and in someways things are better. The drivers have just learned 
>>> that they found a new weapon Dash no masks. And even if it’s a lie, 
>>> they’re using it until they’re not able to anymore. Nfb and probably 
>>> a CB two are working on it still. The idea of risking Lyft and Uber 
>>> going bankrupt is a bad idea for those of us who don’t have bus 
>>> service and trolley service and train service etc., because taxi 
>>> services hire. I
>> don’t think we would want to take that route personally.
>>> This is, of course, my point of you. At the same time, I definitely 
>>> deplore what they are doing. I hope at some point we can get enough 
>>> creativity about us that they can begin to see we really and truly 
>>> mean business. Cindy Lou Ray, moderator,  Cindy ray at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 PM, Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> 
>>>> How about finding a friendly reporter from the press or tv news?
>>>> Maybe Uber and Lyft need some bad press to go with law suits. Too 
>>>> bad we couldn't get a big public boycott so Uber and Lyft risk 
>>>> going bankrupt. This is really disgusting and it sucks that NFB and 
>>>> ACB cant do anything. I dont use these platforms because of these 
>>>> bigoted drivers and I cant afford it anyway. I take buses, the 
>>>> trolley, and paratransit for all my transportation needs.
>>>> 
>>>> Lyn and Aristotle
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 1:13 PM robert stigile via NAGDU 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Annette,
>>>>> No, I have not had it where they said I was not wearing a mask. 
>>>>> But, I had to Ubers in a row a week ago canceled and it was raining a lot.
>>>>> So I reported him, and uber called me to find out what happened 
>>>>> and I told him and one of the drivers was blatant and his 
>>>>> discrimination and they still said they educated him and he is  
>>>>> back on the platform just don’t get it!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robert Stigile, Second Vice-President National Federation of the 
>>>>> Blind of California President San Fernando Valley Chapter
>>>>> 818-381-9568
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 12:36 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU 
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Anette. What you are saying is unfortunately all too common.
>>>>>> I'm not
>>>>> great at taking selfies so I'll leave that topic alone but will be 
>>>>> interested in the perspectives of others on that. However, I think 
>>>>> it would be worth reaching out to the state protection and 
>>>>> advocacy agency as you suggest. Unfortunately Uber's terms and 
>>>>> conditions have an arbitration clause which is limiting. However, 
>>>>> some people have filed state law contract claims and I'm hearing 
>>>>> that some are exploring small claims court actions depending on 
>>>>> whether it's viable in the state they are in. I'm sorry to hear 
>>>>> that about the AG as far as the criminal law front. I would say 
>>>>> get some legal advice and don't give up. I'm so sorry to hear you 
>>>>> are one more person who has experienced this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Melissa
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Melissa Allman
>>>>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing 
>>>>>> Eye P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>>>>> 1 Seeing Eye Way, Morristown, NJ 07960-3378 (deliveries)
>>>>>> 973-539-4425 ext. x1724 | mallman at seeingeye.org | 
>>>>>> www.SeeingEye.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Your support helps us create extraordinary teams. Please help The 
>>>>>> Seeing
>>>>> Eye by making a donation today.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of annette via 
>>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:23 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: annette <annettenowakowski at att.net>
>>>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting 
>>>>>> serious
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yesterday I was waiting for my Huber ride with my guide dog in 
>>>>>> harness
>>>>> and I was wearing a mask.  When the driver approached and saw me 
>>>>> he drove off.  I received a text from Huber saying that my request 
>>>>> could not be filled.  I requested another rife from Huber.  This 
>>>>> time the app wanted me to take a selfie with my mask on and send 
>>>>> it to
>> them.
>>>>> By now, I was going to be late for my appointment.  I gave up on 
>>>>> Huber and took Lift.  For my return trip, I requested a trip with 
>>>>> Huber.  I got the same message about taking a photo.  I tried a 
>>>>> couple of times but could not get the  photo done.  I asked for 
>>>>> some sighted help.  I received an email from Huber stating that 
>>>>> the driver reported that I was not wearing a mask which is a lie.  
>>>>> The email said that if there were multiple attempts to ride 
>>>>> without a mask, I will lose access to the app.  Now, I have this on my record.
>>>>> If this driver pulled this stunt, more drivers will do it as well 
>>>>> and
>> get away
>>>>> with it.  I reported this to the   ridership survey and am going to
>>>>> contact  Huber.  Has this happened to anyone else?  Does anyone 
>>>>> have any tips on how to take a selfie for the Huber app?  I feel 
>>>>> so helpless.  It’s my word against the driver, and the driver wins.
>>>>> Huber sides with the driver and against the customer.  A couple of 
>>>>> years ago, I complained to Huber about a refusal of service.  
>>>>> Huber just said they would talk to the driver, but no disciplinary 
>>>>> action was taken.  I know NFB’s history of taking action against 
>>>>> Huber and Lift, but feel something else must be done.  Who 
>>>>> regulates Huber and Lift?  In the past, someone suggested filing a 
>>>>> criminal misdemeanor against the driver.  However, the city and 
>>>>> county states attorneys here in St. Louis have dismal prosecution 
>>>>> records and thousands of misdemeanors cases, and I don’t think I 
>>>>> would get far.  Should I report this to the Attorney General, 
>>>>> Protection and Advocacy, the BBB or who?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Annette
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Julie A. McGinnity
>> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of 
>> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>> 
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