[NAGDU] FYI FW: Uber Pays Millions & Ends Discriminatory Wait Fees to Resolve DOJ Lawsuit

Tue Jul 19 14:40:19 UTC 2022

Hello all,
Yesterday afternoon I was waiting for uber.
I sent the driver a text and told him I was waiting on the curb in front of the three-story medical building when he arrived he did not pull up in front of me rather, he stopped across the street which it was a busy street.
So, he was waiting and I did not know he was across the street. I found someone walking by and asked them and they said they saw the driver across the street.
So, should I be charged a wait time fee because the driver didn't stop where he was supposed to? I don't think this is fair.
I was not charged a wait time fee, however this could have happened.
I do agree, that if someone is getting picked up safe from their home and they know the driver is arriving, but yet they don't start getting their stuff together until after the driver has arrived there for taking more time than usual to get their belongings and get out to the Uber car that something should be done.
However, if we are waiting for the Uber car and we are out front and the Uber driver is lazy and does not care to try to find us it is not our fault that we are  waiting, it is the Uber driver's fault therefore I have a lot of mixed feelings regarding whether or not someone should be charged a wait time or not.
I hope everyone has a great day! 

Robert Stigile, Second Vice-President
National Federation of the Blind of California
President San Fernando Valley Chapter
818-381-9568

> On Jul 19, 2022, at 7:29 AM, Sheila via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> my husband and I aren't low vision we are totally blind so wouldn't always know if is the driver of r someone else coming in to our complex seei;ng the driver isn't an option.
> 
>> On 7/19/2022 7:45 AM, Heather Bird via NAGDU wrote:
>> I have extremely mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I feel like, all of us, with a disability or not, should have to pay for the time of someone who’s providing the service. Also, even if you don’t have a disability, life, can get in the way, perhaps you’re getting multiple children ready to get out the door, perhaps you live in an apartment building where you have to walk down a bunch of places stairs, and then around the corner of the building to even get to the pick up spot. Perhaps you’re elderly, and you don’t have a disability, yet, but you’re terrified of falling on the ice, so you walk very slowly. I suppose the fees could add up, but it’s really tricky, because I feel like the driver is sitting there, spending time they could be spending picking someone else up, and from what I remember I don’t think the fee was that steep, but also I could be wrong, maybe it is more than I’m thinking. Another issue, and I’m sure anyone who saw my name in the front field, plus the subject line, have a good idea of what I’m going to say next. One of my issues is anything where you register, certified, basically say ahead of time that you have a disability. In theory, it shouldn’t matter, but, if you now have this as part of your profile, depending on who sees it, it could very much impact the treatment that you receive. For instance, if the Uber driver can see that you are a passenger for whom the weight fee is going to be waived, they might just cancel the trip, because they don’t want to wait around long time, especially if they’re not going to get paid for their time while they’re waiting, or maybe they just don’t want to sit around, while you deal with a folding manual wheelchair, walker, a service dog, or whatever other equipment or modifications are part of your disability. This could be a great way for them to screen out people with special needs, people they just don’t wanna interact with, people with service dogs. In theory, could this information be hidden from the driver? Yes, it certainly could. Do I trust Uber to make sure that that happened? No, I sure do not. It really is a tricky situation. Also, I feel like, if the system is too strict, it makes you jump through too many hoops to prove you have a disability, then it’s gonna be a huge hassle, and really get into people’s privacy. However, if the system is very strict, and lots of people abuse it, who do not have disabilities, we just want to avoid fees, and will just register is having a disability even if they don’t. Further, even someone with a legitimate disability, could totally abuse the system, by taking their sweet time, knowing that they won’t be charged a fee, and just become very complacent. For instance, in our city, we have a fairly good public transit system, it’s much better than it used to be. We also have a pair of transit system, and the majority of blind people in our city take paratransit exclusively. With para transit, you have a five minute wait time before the driver will leave, and I have definitely seen this be abused. People will take their sweet time, finishing a cup of coffee, doing extra things, and come out at exactly 5 minutes, or they’ll come out at four minutes, waving at the driver and yelling for them to wait, they’ll pop their head out again at five minutes, six minutes, and functionally the driver doesn’t leave, or, they don’t board the bus, until it’s been seven or eight or even nine minutes. It’s not that they’re being malicious, but they want to make the driver wait, and it’s not that they’re stupid, that they don’t understand the impact, it’s more of a subtle, pervasive, ethos of assuming that you have that extra time to wait. And I’ll be very frank, and see that I have fallen into that trap, I’ve seen my mom struggle with that, although she seems to struggle less, than others, and I think that’s because she used to take the city bus, all the time. And the lack of perspective, I find it very frustrating. Because I know these folks, and if they pull this with a city bus, well, he would never make the bus, and I’m not just talking about people who legitimately need a lot of time to get outside, who are waiting right out the door, and it legitimately takes three, four, or even five minutes, to get from the door, to the bus. I am talking about people for whom blindness is the one, and only disability, who are more than capable of getting to the bus in 30 to 60 seconds. So, what I think could result from this change, is it some individuals, certainly not all, but a large number of them, simply disregard the time of the drivers even more, and it will just reinforce this paratransit mindset that the world will wait for you. I know any of you who live in New York City or another similar location know that that is not how buses and subways work, and that is not a way you can function in the real world, with, or without a disability, when you’re not using paratransit. So, overall, I understand why this was put in place, but I fear that it could potentially serve as a labeling system to predispose drivers to behave in a certain way towards people with disabilities. Further, I think the system could be intentionally, or subconsciously, abuse, buy some of its users, disregarding the time of the drivers, and reinforcing and unrealistic mindset. In the grand scheme of things, even on a fixed income, I think dealing with the fees should be something most people can deal with, even if it’s frustrating. I think it is more concerning, and perhaps it is already being addressed with this change, is being left. As I see it, if you take longer to get out there, legitimately using more of the drivers time, then perhaps you should pay a little extra since they’re waiting for you, and presumably in the ass you could see when they were coming and could’ve started getting outside sooner. However, what I think you would need protection from that case, is being left because the driver doesn’t feel like waiting, or being canceled on, because they don’t want the hassle of your wheelchair, walker, service dog, etc. I am off and running around like a chicken with my head cut off, and I message my driver, and I say “I’m running late, you’re going to charge me a waiting fee, and I’m totally fine with that, charge away, but please don’t leave, I will be coming out, I don’t want to have to call another Uber, and I promise I will come out so you aren’t wasting your time waiting for me. “ and like I said, perhaps this judgment does do something about cancellation fees, and ensuring that the driver will wait, if you confirm to them somehow that you are still wanting to take the trip. The last thing that occurs to me, and I’m sorry for the long message, but the last thing that occurs to me is that the service where you can schedule multiple stops, and then wait for you a few minutes between each, is extremely helpful, and if this new ruling kills that system, I will be so unbelievably pissed off, and it will harm a lot of people. Even if it’s judgment doesn’t ruin that system, it could result in a driver being unwilling to take someone with a special designation, to a multi-trip stop, because presumably, that person will get away with having no fees, and, or, will take a lot longer, at each stop. I have had trips before to drop my son off at preschool, which was quite near our house, in bad weather, where the driver pick us up, we stopped at the preschool, and it literally took 30 seconds to drop them off, then I went back home, the whole trip cost about eight dollars, but if I had to schedule the two trips, it would’ve been over $15. I have also had trips where I went from point a to point F and in between points BCDNE were a drive-through ATM, a pick up order from the store, And dropping off an item to a friend. This saves me a ton of time and a ton of money, and if I was registered as someone with a disability, I don’t think the driver would’ve ever taken on that trip, not in 1 million years.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jul 18, 2022, at 2:48 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I couldn’t get the press release to show up.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 18, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: U.S. Department of Justice <usdoj at public.govdelivery.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 9:37 AM
>>>> To: mike at michaelhingson.com
>>>> Subject: Uber Pays Millions & Ends Discriminatory Wait Fees to Resolve DOJ
>>>> Lawsuit
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Today the Department of Justice entered a multi-million-dollar settlement
>>>> with Uber to resolve a lawsuit
>>>> <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDAsInVy
>>>> aSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMjA3MTguNjA5MjIzNjEiLCJ1cmwiOiJo
>>>> dHRwczovL3d3dy5hZGEuZ292L3ViZXJfY29tcC5wZGYifQ.sj6QAK22q11XBcLT4NNJalxf-3L1U
>>>> umHG6d7_rl_3_A/s/1394245882/br/141191192240-l>  alleging that Uber illegally
>>>> discriminated by charging wait time fees to riders who, because of
>>>> disability, need more time to board an Uber car. Under the agreement, Uber
>>>> will offer millions of dollars in compensation to over 65,000 Uber riders
>>>> who were charged the discriminatory fees due to a disability. Uber will also
>>>> waive wait time fees for all Uber riders who certify that they (or someone
>>>> they frequently travel with) need more time to get in an Uber because of a
>>>> disability. The press release is available here
>>>> <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDEsInVy
>>>> aSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMjA3MTguNjA5MjIzNjEiLCJ1cmwiOiJo
>>>> dHRwczovL3d3dy5qdXN0aWNlLmdvdi9vcGEvcHIvdWJlci1jb21taXRzLWNoYW5nZXMtYW5kLXBh
>>>> eXMtbWlsbGlvbnMtcmVzb2x2ZS1qdXN0aWNlLWRlcGFydG1lbnQtbGF3c3VpdC1vdmVyY2hhcmdp
>>>> bmctcGVvcGxlIn0.A9K9n8EKzC7GoiZb83pEU6myNzfKIBo5tPZ-QZvilWQ/s/1394245882/br/
>>>> 141191192240-l> . To find out more about this lawsuit, agreement, or the
>>>> ADA, visit ada.gov
>>>> <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDIsInVy
>>>> aSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMjA3MTguNjA5MjIzNjEiLCJ1cmwiOiJo
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>>>> 394245882/br/141191192240-l>  or call the Justice Department's toll-free ADA
>>>> information line at 1-800-514-0301 or 1-800-514-0383 (TDD).
>>>> 
>>>> _____
>>>> 
>>>> 
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