[NAGDU] Irregularity

Thu Mar 24 14:33:12 UTC 2022

Hi Tracy,

I'm late here, but a few thoughts. You've gotten some great
suggestions already. Some of these suggestions work extremely well for
some dogs, but don't effect others. A food switch can work wonders for
relieving issues; however, I'm imagining from your previous posts you
probably already feed a decent quality kibble. Food switches are my go
to if the dog is pooping three or more times a day or consistently
having very large or soft stool. This almost always means the dog is
eating a food with a lot of fillers it isn't digesting, or the dog has
an allergy or intolerance to the food. Switching to a different,
ideally better quality food, in these cases almost always results in
relieving less often and/or with less urgency. If the dog is already
pooping only once or twice a day with smaller firm stool, a food
switch may or may not make a difference.

Most dogs will do equally well eating one or two meals a day. Some
dogs will vomit bile if only eating once a day, and it may be
difficult to feed once a day if another dog in the home is eating
twice. Something less drastic that sometimes works is feeding one
larger meal and one smaller meal. It would take some trial and error
to figure out if a larger morning or evening meal would alter the
relieving pattern, but it is a very easy fix if it does work. I would
try this first, and consider one meal per day if the dog starts
consistently relieving mid route on a regular basis.

Another easy fix is giving the dog a bit of exercise before starting
your route, if you think the dog may need to relieve. Sometimes all
the dog needs is five minutes of fetch, tug, heeling around the house,
trick training or obedience session, etc to stimulate them to relieve.
Then you can go on your way without worrying. This obviously is more
feasible when relieving your dog at home. Believe it or not, brushing
also stimulates some dogs to need to relieve, which is another option.

My current dog is not entirely predictable with relieving either. She
gets her meals within a roughly one hour window and always poops first
thing in the morning. She eats a lower fiber food with little filler.
What time of the day her next poop will come is not predictable. As a
college student though, I do have routines that vary from day to day
and therefore her exercise routine varies from day to day. Giving her
a few minutes of exercise before relieving is the solution that works
very well for her to prevent indicating she needs to relieve during a
route.

Good luck,
Danielle

On 3/24/22, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Thanks all for your thoughts.
> I am feeding 2 dogs now, my current and retired guides.  My old boy is
> allergic to chicken, which makes switching foods much more problematic.  I
> really don't want to have 2 bags of dogfood and 2 containers to protect
> them.  However, Igloo's #2 habbits were erratic in training as well, when
> he
> was eating Purina, so I'm not sure a switch would help anyway.
> I continue thinking about moving the night feeding time, but haven't come
> up
> with a good consistent time to change it too.  I'm not sure about doing
> away
> with split feeding.  I started it long ago, when one of my dogs would throw
> up in the night because her stomach was so empty.  Both my boys have been
> split fed all their lives, too.
> Brent, I have a relieving harness, and I really like it.  I used it all the
> time with my old dog, but Igloo has not taken to it well.  I used it in
> training, and he would fill the bag, but still stand in a hunched way until
> I took it off, then sometimes do a bit more.  At home, he did the same, or
> wouldn't go at all.  I decided to stop using it for a while until he got
> more acclimated to his new life and I got more familiar with his poop
> schedule.  Maybe it's time to bring it back out and start over, because it
> really is very useful.  And my old dog did seem to come to associate
> wearing
> it with getting down to business and filling that bag.
> Thanks everyone for giving me things to consider.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brent Franklin
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:08 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Brent Franklin; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Irregularity
>
> Hello Tracy,
>
> An interesting topic you've raised here. One that I hope promotes much
> discussion.
>
> I will do my best to keep this post short, having several guides it might
> end up slightly longer than I'd like.
>
> Food certainly plays its part, with so many brands and types of food out
> there any wonder it can be tricky to absolutely know which works best with
> your dog. The food my dogs have come to me on I've changed right from the
> start. With sponsorship of schools being offered by certain brands, those
> are the one's the schools go with. aInterestingly 3 instructors I've
> worked with wouldn't have there own dogs on those brands the schools were
> recommending at the time. One can ask a stack of questions re food, and it
> is by only trialing different foods that you will find out what works
> best.
>
> My current guide came to me with toileting times, a rough guide that the
> kennel staff had observed. While this was good it gave me a real idea of
> when he needed to fill a bag, a fairly good start. However I was changing
> his food from day one so this was going to change. His toileting times
> didn't suit me either, two poos in the morning within  a 3 hour period
> wasn't going to work for me, then one later in the day late at night. As
> far as I was concerned while good information, this was going to change. I
> wasn't sure what times we'd end up with but change was needed.
>
> It took us about 6 weeks to truly work this out. He is now down to filling
> a bag twice a day.
>
> His first is very early in the morning, and his second is mid afternoon.
> This dog works very hard, so plenty of walks. I felt twice a day was
> enough, from the start I wanted to cut one out, because two so soon in the
> morning just didn't seem to work with my timeline. Yes I feel it is
> important for the dog to fit his toileting in with what I want. Being
> employed means I can't just up and take him, there wasn't going to be this
> "Oh no my dog has to go" in the middle of a meeting.
>
> What I did was a couple of things.
>
> Firstly I changed his food to one I felt was better than the school
> recommended one.
>
> The second aspect was to get rid of one of those bag filling times. I
> gradually pushed that time further back and in the evening straight after
> his dinner I'd toilet him and not give him another opportunity until
> morning. He soon caught on to the idea if he needed to fill a bag after
> dinner he'd better do it straight away.
>
> This showed me I was going to succeed, so soon after I was able to toilet
> him mid-afternoon and if he hadn't gone after dinner in the time I gave
> him he learnt I wasn't going to take him late evenings The mid-afternoon
> change really worked. I remained very strict and he came around to what I
> wanted, filling a bag twice a day.
>
> A third aspect is I stopped feeding him twice a day, I cut out the morning
> feed in the first 5 days I had him. The dog I had before my current guide
> developed stomach issues, it took weeks to resolve those, and my vet
> insisted I stop feeding him  twice a day and go to one feed a day. The
> idea of feeding twice a day while not exactly old isn't exactly new
> either. My first two guides were never fed twice a day. My vet felt
> feeding twice a day wasn't helping my former guide with his stomach
> issues.
> Amazing the difference cutting out the morning feed made. I then promised
> myself I'd never split feed again from then onwards it was always going to
> be one feed a day. Others can shoot me down but I feel the one feed made
> it easier for me with dog toileting habits.
>
> The fourth and final thing I do is use a toilet harness. My dog when
> wearing this knows it is toilet time not only does it prevent me ever
> having to pick up after my dog, but it brings about that importance of
> toileting to the dog, he knows I expect him to fill the bag.
>
> Those are my thoughts there is no right or wrong in what we do, but once a
> day feed I feel has made the biggest difference.
>
> Good luck, if you aren't currently using a toilet harness consider doing
> so, best invention ever.
>
> Feel free to keep the list informed of your progress because I'm very sure
> so many readers can relate to this issue.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Brent.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2022 1:42 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Irregularity
>
> Igloo is not very regular with his #2's.  His breakfast time is around the
> same time every day, and his dinner can vary by an hour or so, but is
> usually around the same time as well.
>
> His night output can happen any time between right after dinner to just
> before bedtime.  If it's late, his morning output is also late.
>
> We get out for some kind of walking every day, unless it's raining all
> day.
>
> I wish I could figure a way to make him more predictable.  He doesn't
> relieve on route, unless it's a real emergency, but I don't want him to
> start having more emergencies.  I can deal with sometimes having to carry
> around a full baggy, but I really hate when it becomes an everyday
> occurrence.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> He is eating an even amount of food morning and night, lamb with millet,
> barley and sorghum.
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
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