[NAGDU] Spirit Airlines incident

Wed Sep 7 20:24:51 UTC 2022

Hi all,

I didn't hear that story about the service dog freezing in the cargo area.

Heather, I enjoyed your story about the 3 guide dogs in the same row. That
would have been a cute picture! I liked what you said to the flight
attendant! That's what I like about you, Heather, you are not afraid to
speak up!

Everyone, hope you had a nice holiday weekend. It is hotter than hell here
in Southern CA!

Lyn and Aristotle

On Wed, Sep 7, 2022, 9:55 AM gloria profusek via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Heather, you make good points and I loved the story!
> Safe travels.
> Gloria
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heather Bird via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Heather Bird <heather.l.bird at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2022 12:37 pm
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Spirit Airlines incident
>
> This has a bit of an urban legend sound to it, so I’m thinking this is not
> true. Rather, I am thinking this is a story where something happened, but
> it wasn’t a guide dog, maybe a pet dog, or, maybe a guide dog was made to
> fly under the plane, but did not die. Likely there were two or more stories
> involving dogs, and in the public mind, some of these sort of melded
> together, to form the version that your friends conveyed to you. I did a
> little bit of initial research, and I don’t see a story like this, I see
> some that have some similar elements, but none where a guide dog was placed
> under the plane and died. If your friends could let you know where they
> heard or read this story, it might be helpful in trying to track it down or
> figure out what happened.
>
> I am actually very glad that we do not have to use the bulkhead seats.
> First of all, different planes, from different manufacturers, are
> configured in different ways, and in some cases, the bulkhead seat actually
> has less space, because you can’t put the dog under your seat because there
> is a bar that blocks it off, so they have your foot space, and the space
> under the seat in front of you, but if there’s a bulkhead wall nearby, then
> they can’t have the space under your seat, and they can’t have the space
> under the seat in front of you, because there is no seat in front of you,
> just a wall, and could be limited to a space that is the same size as your
> foot space otherwise would’ve been, except, without the space in front of
> you available. I’m not saying the bulkhead is never a good option, because
> sometimes it is, especially if you’re traveling with one or two other
> people, who don’t mind the dog being in their foot space, but under the new
> regulations you’re not allowed to have your dog encroach on anyone else’s
> foot space, and a bulkhead row, that’s actually more likely to happen than
> in a standard row of seats. Dogs like to be in a den, and when you get them
> under the seat in front of you, especially if you can get them turned
> around so that their body is under there, and their head and torso are in
> your actual foot space, so they can see you, and still feel secure, you
> have a lot more control of where they are, and keeping them out of other
> peoples space. So, I don’t mind if a particular handler likes the bulkhead
> or doesn’t like the bulkhead, but I would never support any policy that
> urges airlines to see people in the bulkhead row, since we’ve actually been
> fighting to have them not stick us in a particular row that we haven’t
> requested to be in.Also, I would never say anything as extreme as “there
> are no Guide Dogs you cannot legitimately fit under a Seat, ever. “Because
> there are some, but they are fairly rare. I think often people, sometimes
> handlers, sometimes airport staff, assume that a dog won’t fit, when it
> can. Also, I have learned that the size of the dog is sometimes not as
> important as the sheep of the dog. For instance, a small dog was elderly
> and has arthritis, could have a very hard time curling up small enough to
> fit under a seat. A young supple dog that is actually quite a bit larger
> might fit just fine. A dog who is very tall, but not very long from hips to
> shoulders, might fit quite well, where another dog weighs the same, or even
> weighs a little bit less, but it’s very long, might not fit quite as well.
> I think it’s also important to remember that dogs aren’t people, and they
> don’t always feel the same way about things as we do. If you put a person
> in a space, sized to scale, to be equivalent to the dog under the seat
> scenario, most people would not be happy, somebody even have a panic
> attack. But dogs are often comforted by being in crates, or in an even
> smaller spaces, even having something on top of them, hence the trend of
> dog beds that have a blanket layer on top that they can go under, that
> actively puts the weight of a blanket on them. I know that my seat
> preference, is the window seat of a standard row of seats, not the
> bulkhead, not the middle seat of a standard row, and never the aisle seat,
> that is no fun. When my dog is under the seat in front of me, I can put my
> leg in between my dog and the person sitting next to me, so they can’t
> claim the dog is touching them, bothering them, or encroaching on their
> foot space, which is especially important under the new regulations with
> their new wording. I find it really interesting that in Australia they’ll
> give you an extra seat, and on the surface I think that’s really nice of
> them. However, I really hope that if people used to traveling on those
> airlines with that policy, travel to another country, they are aware that
> that’s not going to be the case on a lot of other airlines, which could
> cause them difficulty if their dog is not used to, and they are not used to
> putting their dog into, a smaller space. On a more cheerful note, I’ll
> share a quick story. I was once on a flight with two other service dog
> handlers. We had a 70 pound German Shepherd, a 60 pound German Shepherd,
> and an 80 pound black lab. We all put our dogs under the seats with their
> butt under the seat in front of us, and their heads facing us. The black
> lab was in the middle, and at one point he had two German Shepherd‘s heads
> on his shoulders because they were using him like a pillow. We were all
> settled, when I heard some flight attendants talking, and I eavesdropped,
> they were distressed that they saw three Guide Dogs listed on the manifest,
> and they were concerned that they wouldn’t all fit, they were talking about
> moving someone to a different flight, or how the dogs were going to bother
> people on this flight. Then, one of the flight attendant said, “I don’t see
> them in the boarding area, maybe they’re not coming. “So someone went to go
> and check with the gate agent, and another flight attendant said let me
> look and see if they’re already on board. She walked up and down a couple
> of times sort of looking around, and came back and said “I don’t see them
> on here, I have no idea where they are. “ I was in the aisle seat, and
> wearing a skirt, which did somewhat obscure my dogs head. When they started
> turning the tone of the conversation towards how “this isn’t acceptable, we
> just can’t have that many dogs on a plane, they should really limited to
> one per flight. “ and other similar BS, I finally spoke up and said “you
> don’t think three dogs will fit on the flight? “ The lady said no, so I
> asked “you don’t think they would fit in the same section of the cabin ?
> “Again she said no and then I said what if they all fit in the same row,
> and she laughed and said that was impossible, I said come over here and
> take a look then. Then all the flight attendants had to come and take a
> look, and I told them “take a picture, and next time why don’t you worry
> about a problem when it happens, and let people disabilities manage their
> own needs, especially when they know what they’re doing. “They agreed that
> they would in future, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that picture wound up
> on someone’s Facebook page or somewhere else.
>
> I am in transit right now, and using dictation on my phone, so please
> chalk any errors up to that. I already noticed that it put the word cheap
> instead of shape like the woolly things with white coats, as opposed to the
> configuration of some thing, although I have to say that’s a cute dictation
> error.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 7, 2022, at 10:01 AM, gloria profusek via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
>
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