[NAGDU] My Thoughts on the NAGDU Seminar

Mon Jul 3 14:03:18 UTC 2023

Regarding ACAA paperwork concerns: I should have mentioned in my 
response to Michael Forzano that we need data from members and the 
guide-dog using public about folks who have decided not to fly, or not 
to get a new guide dog because of the ACAA paperwork and airlines 
attitudes and policies. We also need to know about what technology guide 
dog users do and do not have access to, including printers to print 
forms and the latest screenreading and Adobe technology to fill out 
accessible PDF forms. That [ACAA 
survey](https://bit.ly/nagdu-acaa-survey) will be linked from  the NAGDU 
home page very soon. The information from that survey will go into our 
petition for a new rulemaking and any other advocacy we do on the forms 
issue.

I also want to stress that we are coordinating with other organizations, 
including Blind Veterans of America and Guide Dog Users International, 
in our advocacy efforts. Please aid all of us by [completing the ACAA 
survey](https://bit.ly/nagdu-acaa-survey), regardless of your 
affiliation. Again, the survey link will go on the NAGDU homepage 
shortly. I encourage other organizations to post the survey to their 
websites as well.

Thank you all very much for your help with our advocacy.

Yours,

/Æ

On 2 Jul 2023, at 11:38, Sherry Gomes wrote:

> I am seriously considering not getting another dog when Shani retires. 
> I got my first guide at age 17 and I'm almost 66, and I can't believe 
> I'm considering a life without a guide dog. But we have seen our 
> rights steadily get swept away, bit by bit. As of now, unless there 
> was an emergency, or some chance of a lifetime to travel somewhere 
> I've always wanted to go, I won't fly because of this issue. I've 
> never taken a ride share because of the issues.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Charlene Ota via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2023 9:34 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Charlene Ota <caota4 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] My Thoughts on the NAGDU Seminar
>
> I know fakers still get their documents on the internet or from 
> organizations that provide them documents based on some sort of 
> so-called training that they can show.  Those fakers still travel on 
> the airlines, no problem.  The problems have not been solved at all 
> with the forms because the fakers still get their faker ids and 
> documents from services boldly advertising their services on the 
> internet.  I have a friend who has traveled and taken her fake service 
> dog wherever she wants to go and I have spoken rather vehemently with 
> her about how hard we as guide dog handlers have worked so hard and so 
> long for the right to have our dogs in public and then she comes along 
> with her dog and lets people pet and play with it, lets it sit on 
> furniture and in chairs in restaurants, etc. She claims she goes to 
> some service dog accrediting place near by.  Personally, I don't think 
> we've even begun to really deal with the issue and we've lots our 
> rights as guide dog users as a result.
>
> At present, because of health reasons, I don't have a guide dog, but 
> it concerns me what sort of challenges I'll have to face if and when I 
> am able to get a dog again.
>
> We have become second class citezens yet again!
>
> I know we have resisted having some sort of identification, partly to 
> protect owner trained dogs, but sadly, maybe that might be part of a 
> solution so that we can push out the fakers!
>
>
> I don't mean to be offensive, just am concerned and frustrated at what 
> I see happening to the rights of guide dog handlers.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sherry Gomes via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2023 10:16 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Sherry Gomes <sherry.gomes at outlook.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] My Thoughts on the NAGDU Seminar
>
> I feel exactly the way you do, Michael. Since when does the NFB not 
> protest when facing such blatant and long term discrimination. In the 
> world of civil rights, protest have won the day far more often than 
> giving in to policies that take away rights. And what the airlines 
> expect service dog/guide dog handlers to do in order to fly is 
> demanding that a subgroup of a minority group jump through hoops that 
> no other person who wants to fly has to jump through. Can't we do 
> *something*? How about get other service dog handler groups involved 
> too? Or reach across the aisle and work with other orgs with lots of 
> guide dog handlers. How can we just take it that we are expected to 
> participate in processes that demean us and take away our rights? I'm 
> so frustrated.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Michael Forzano 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2023 7:56 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Michael Forzano <michaeldforzano at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] My Thoughts on the NAGDU Seminar
>
> It was nice to see quite a bit of discussion about what are arguably 
> the biggest issues of discrimination facing guide dog users today, 
> rideshare and the airlines. Unfortunately, there was not a whole lot 
> in the way of even working towards solutions that truly eliminate 
> these problems. What I heard is that the best hope of changing the 
> airline situation is a pilot program in the FAA reauthorization Act 
> that would create essentially TSA pre-check for guide dogs. This would 
> make things easier for frequent travelers, but what about folks who 
> don't travel often? What about folks who aren't good with technology? 
> And at the end of the day, it still leaves the door open for 
> discrimination at the airport. On rideshare, we are working with Uber 
> on a pilot program where riders can identify themselves as service 
> animal users before a ride and have reports automatically filed if 
> they are denied.
> Considering some of the drivers I've encountered, I would not be 
> surprised if drivers continue to deny us even if they're threatened by 
> a message in their app. And when they do, Uber has a terrible track 
> record of handling reports and taking action, as we all know. Even 
> during the settlement period when Uber was required to deactivate 
> drivers in certain situations, they rarely did.
>
> It seems to me that the NAGDU board has taken the position that we now 
> live in a world where these discriminations are our reality. As was 
> pointed out by a NAGDU member, guide dog access was better 25 years 
> ago and our rights are being rolled back. But there is no realistic 
> way to go back to "the good old days".  We are so afraid of losing 
> more, that we're not willing to demand back the rights that the blind 
> fought so hard for. While that's a perfectly valid position for 
> someone to take at an individual level, is that the position we want 
> the NFB, the voice of the nation's blind, to take?
>
> Protesting was brought up multiple times during the seminar. The 
> response from our leaders was that they did not think it would be 
> effective. The fact is that we don't know if it will be unless we try. 
> Protesting has helped advance civil rights causes in the past, 
> including those of the blind. In my opinion, the NAGDU board should 
> not be worrying about members traveling across the country for a 
> protest that turns out to be ineffective. Advocacy takes work, and I'd 
> like to think that people signing up for a protest are well aware that 
> it probably won't yield immediate results. As was pointed out, we 
> would not have the ADA if disabled advocates hadn't crawled up the 
> steps of the capitol. The NFB has protested on a number of issues as 
> well.
>
>  Particularly when it comes to Uber, I think a protest is long 
> overdue.
> We've sued them, settled with them, and tried to work with them for 
> almost
> 10 years. It is long past time to change our strategy, and yet we're 
> too afraid because of their PR resources.
>
> Another argument that I heard was that we would be unable to advance 
> legislation due to Republican control of Congress. My question is, do 
> other civil rights orgs put their advocacy on hold when the party that 
> most supports their cause isn't in power? The split in Congress is 
> quite narrow and I doart think it's that far fetched that we could 
> convince some Republicans on the importance of some of our 
> legislation.
>
> I am curious if other members have similar sentiments, and thoughts on 
> what actions we can take. I have thought about bringing a resolution 
> to the convention to make these issues a top priority for the NFB as a 
> whole but I assume it's too late this year. Open to ideas, and happy 
> to help in any way I can. That said, doing this work as an individual 
> doesn't make a lot of sense, we need to be aligned as an organization 
> in order to make real progress.
>
> -Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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