[NAGDU] Flying, part 2

Thu Jun 22 16:49:37 UTC 2023

I echo Al's statement that this keeps changing so very important to check the airlines web sites. People seem to be reasonably happy with how American is doing this.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 12:41 PM
To: mike michaelhingson.com <mike at michaelhingson.com>
Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Flying, part 2

Thank you Mike – that is good to know. I reiterate that airlines may change their policies with respect to the forms at any time, so you should always check the airline website for up-to-date policies whenever you book a trip.

Also, if you book your travel by phone, do not rely on what you are told by the airline staff – rely on the airline’s website for the policies and procedures. I and others have been told incorrect information by airline staff when booking travel by phone.

/Æ

/Æ

On 22 Jun 2023, at 12:31, mike michaelhingson.com wrote:

> Some airlines such as American permit you to file once a year. You register your guide and get an identification number that you need to make sure appears on every reservation. If you also file the form after getting the ID#, again, the information on the form will be considered good for one year by American.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 8:45 AM
> To: Michael Forzano <michaeldforzano at gmail.com>
> Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National 
> Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Flying, part 2
>
> Technically, they are supposed to provide the forms at the airport,,,, and are supposed to make reasonable efforts to allow a person to fly even if they didn’t fill out the form ahead of the 48 hour window. In practice, they are making no effort whatsoever and are either denying people or only letting them on the flight at the very last minute after saying that they would not allow them on the flight at all.
>
> It’s pretty disastrous. We are working on it in every way we can.
>
> /Æ
>
> On 22 Jun 2023, at 11:26, Michael Forzano wrote:
>
>> My interpretation has been that they are supposed to make the forms 
>> available at the gate regardless, however, based on Al's email, it 
>> sounds as if airlines are actually interpreting this as the form is 
>> only made available at the gate if the flight was booked within 48 
>> hours of departure.
>>
>> Just another reason we need to do something about this. I'm glad to 
>> here there are some options in the works.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 10:37 PM Sarah Calhoun via NAGDU 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The only attestation forms that can be used are the ones composed by 
>>> the Department of Transportation. When signing the form(s), you are 
>>> stating to DOT the information is truthful and correct.
>>> If airlines want to require these forms, it is up to each airline to 
>>> make them accessible.
>>> it is not mandatory for airlines to require these forms, but there 
>>> is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding this fact.
>>> Along with the release of these DOT attestation forms, DOT stated 
>>> airlines who require these forms must make them available at the 
>>> gate.  We know this is not being followed. I recommend, each time 
>>> you fly you have a completed up to date form with you, even if you 
>>> have completed forms on-line or the airline has joined with Open 
>>> Door Organization and use their system.
>>>
>>> Sarah
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via 
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 8:21 PM
>>> To: Christina Moore <moorechristina107 at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National 
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Flying, part 2
>>>
>>> Everyone:
>>>
>>> 1. You need to check your airlines website for their particular 
>>> requirements. Each airline has a different process for providing 
>>> your DOT form electronically if you book more than 48 hours in advance.
>>> You should also re-check  the airline website each time you book a 
>>> new reservation, as several airlines have changed their procedures.
>>> It is all very frustrating.
>>> You should be able to find information on your airlines service 
>>> animal procedures by googling your airline’s name plus service 
>>> animals.
>>> 2. You should always use the DOT form, not the form provided by the 
>>> airline with their logo/name on it. All airlines must accept the DOT 
>>> form.
>>> However, airlines have been refusing to accept forms with other 
>>> airlines’
>>> branding.
>>> 3. MAke sure that if you bring a copy of the form with you to the 
>>> airport, you  bring one that has your signature’s date after the 
>>> date you booked your fglight. Also, keep in mind that you will need 
>>> to check and comply with any processes for providing the form more 
>>> than
>>> 48  hours in advance of your flight if you booked mor  than 48 hours 
>>> in advance.
>>> Bringing the form to the airport is not an acceptable alternative to 
>>> whatever processes your airline has on its website unless the 
>>> airline clearly states that all you need to do is bring the form 
>>> with you to the airport.
>>> 4. NFB and NAGDU are working on a petition to amend the regulations 
>>> about flying with a service animal to reduce the barriers blind 
>>> folks encounter when flying with a guide dog. We are also working 
>>> with legislators to enact a pre-check for service animals pilot 
>>> program that would eliminate the requirement to deal with the DOT 
>>> forms for program participants.
>>>
>>> We will be discussing the problems and solutions to our flyinhg with 
>>> our guide dogs  at our seminar and business meetings in Houston. I 
>>> hope to see you all there.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> /Æ
>>>
>>> Al Elia
>>> NAGDU Board member
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 Jun 2023, at 9:22, Christina Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah when I fly, I keep the form with me. I think they are good for 
>>>> a year or so but I could be off on that timing.
>>>> Does anyone know if you switch airlines you have to use that 
>>>> airline's form? I did do the new form when I flew the different 
>>>> airline back last September but not sure if you can use the same 
>>>> form since it is pretty much the same thing just a different 
>>>> airline on it.
>>>> Christina
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 8:50 AM Tina Thomas via NAGDU 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would keep my DOT service Dog from with me.
>>>>> When I was flying United March 12 2023 from Minnesota, I was 
>>>>> stopped and asked if I had the DOT service animal forms printed 
>>>>> out and on my person.
>>>>> The woman of color asked me to present them. I informed her that I 
>>>>> had uploaded them on the website, and I had no way to print them 
>>>>> out.
>>>>> So she went to check the system a couple of times and then she 
>>>>> came back and said well we did find your form, however, you must 
>>>>> have a printed copy in the airport. She also asked me if I had a 
>>>>> copy of the forms on my phone and I said yes only  Because yes I 
>>>>> did but still.
>>>>> Everyone, be vigilant and be safe when traveling to and from 
>>>>> convention. I’m sure this issue is going to show up one way or 
>>>>> another. We are still far removed from the day after civil rights.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25
>>>>> mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uYWdkdV9uZmJuZXQub3Jn&i=NjI1ZD
>>>>> gxMTcwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=c1p4T3Jybk4rWGl0TFd5MFZ0SitnSmFBQ2lIM
>>>>> khNMFFtTDhsbUtFd09Daz0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPU
>>>>> EhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a7HioI1KmA
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> NAGDU:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25
>>>>> mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL25hZ2R1X25mYm5ldC5vcmcvbW9vcmVja
>>>>> HJpc3RpbmExMA==&i=NjI1ZDgxMTcwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=TnNMRURsM3gvQ
>>>>> 0trMlZuU2tQZDcxWldJYjBSVEhsUkxXbXFVQk41OFhPST0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f
>>>>> 8b9e02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHW
>>>>> xWWA-XVK0a7HioI1KmA
>>>>> 7%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mY
>>> m5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uYWdkdV9uZmJuZXQub3Jn&i=NjI1ZDgxMT
>>> cwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=c1p4T3Jybk4rWGl0TFd5MFZ0SitnSmFBQ2lIMkhNMFF
>>> tTDhsbUtFd09Daz0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFT
>>> kNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a7HioI1KmA
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mY
>>> m5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL25hZ2R1X25mYm5ldC5vcmcvc2MtdGljbyU0M
>>> GF0dC5uZXQ=&i=NjI1ZDgxMTcwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=TC81QXUrZnJOYVplZjl
>>> zUTNkekR1UnIyV3ZIUTZlNXl2YmF0SVdjU3NXaz0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6
>>> a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a
>>> 7HioI1KmA
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mY
>>> m5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uYWdkdV9uZmJuZXQub3Jn&i=NjI1ZDgxMT
>>> cwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=c1p4T3Jybk4rWGl0TFd5MFZ0SitnSmFBQ2lIMkhNMFF
>>> tTDhsbUtFd09Daz0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFT
>>> kNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a7HioI1KmA
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mY
>>> m5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL25hZ2R1X25mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWljaGFlbGRmb
>>> 3J6YW5vJTQw&i=NjI1ZDgxMTcwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=a0t5Z1RxQjR1TWJtY29
>>> iclVDeVFNbDNlQm9zak1OdzdSU2tLS2ZUdWVUcz0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6
>>> a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a
>>> 7HioI1KmA
>>> gmail.com
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mYm5
> ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uYWdkdV9uZmJuZXQub3Jn&i=NjI1ZDgxMTcwOT
> JkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=c1p4T3Jybk4rWGl0TFd5MFZ0SitnSmFBQ2lIMkhNMFFtTDhsb
> UtFd09Daz0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUS
> Vbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a7HioI1KmA
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mYm5
> ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL25hZ2R1X25mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWlrZSU0MG1pY2hhZ
> WxoaW5nc29uLmNvbQ==&i=NjI1ZDgxMTcwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=cDEvZXkvc2RMN
> lJ5Q2RkRlFyZHFnVFduYjFVSTNXMURNZnp3ME9ORlZTST0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e
> 02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK
> 0a7HioI1KmA

_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uYWdkdV9uZmJuZXQub3Jn&i=NjI1ZDgxMTcwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=c1p4T3Jybk4rWGl0TFd5MFZ0SitnSmFBQ2lIMkhNMFFtTDhsbUtFd09Daz0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a7HioI1KmA
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=nfbnet.org&u=aHR0cDovL25mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL25hZ2R1X25mYm5ldC5vcmcvbWFsbG1hbiU0MHNlZWluZ2V5ZS5vcmc=&i=NjI1ZDgxMTcwOTJkZmIxMTY4Yjg5YmVj&t=eGIwaTJtVHVaLy9MemMvMlhpUVdERmFhNHIvM1pva2hsVXdCMWkvQjBLQT0=&h=7f2bb6cdcc7c4e1f8b9e02d6a1fcc28d&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbhg2ccKTTmDzPWPipY7ki5gHWxWWA-XVK0a7HioI1KmA