[NAGDU] Uber and LYFT

Fri Jun 14 20:10:13 UTC 2024

Hi Julie,

Maybe I'm getting old and grumpy but I would not have taken my daughter's shoes off and I would have politely insisted that it is the driver's responsibility to wait to insure that his passengers are safe and secure before moving. It is no different than insisting that passengers not in a car seat must buckle up. As far as the white seats, well, I would have brushed her shoes gently and stated that part of being in business is realizing the costs involved with transporting customers. I would also say that I was quite certain that all of the passengers in his automobile surely don't take their shoes off, and therefore, my daughter should not do so either.

I do understand about hassles with Uber with a dog guide. Frankly I don't often take them and I hate being treated like a second class citizen. My mantra is that "I am a first class citizens and intend to conduct myself as such and will expect to treat others as such and to be treated by others as a first class citizen as well." I refuse to measure my worth against their ruler. That doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt when I am treated improperly or that I don't want to punch them on occasion.

Best of luck in future rides as well as with your new dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie A. Orozco via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 2:37 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Julie A. Orozco <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Uber and LYFT

Hi all,

A huge part of our problem with Uber and Lyft is that drivers are not held accountable for discriminating, yes, but it also seems as though these accountability problems lead to some of the drivers behaving as though they have all the power. The scary part, of course, is that they do have the power when we are in their vehicle. I travel alone with my two-year-old frequently enough that this is something I think about. A driver can take off before I have her car seat properly buckled, and there is very little I can do about it because it's the driver's car, and they don't have to listen if I ask them to wait. When I was working my previous dog, I was left outside late at night, in hot weather, and even when I was 8 months pregnant. The drivers didn't consider or even think about our safety. I wish there was somewhere we could take this safety angle because it's a serious problem. I'll keep putting my new attorney brain to it because it's what I keep coming back to. 

Last night, when we were traveling home from our chapter meeting, our Uber driver asked us if we could remove our daughter's shoes because he had white seats, with no seat covers. My daughter cooperated, but she was a little freaked out. She knows by now that she should have her shoes on outside, so she didn't understand. But what were my choices? I could either comply with his request or call another ride. Bad choices at 9:00 at night when my daughter needed to get to bed. I hated to think what he would do had my husband and I been working dogs. Again, I was brought back to the power problem. I am the one who needs the ride, and my choices were to either take it or not, no matter how uncomfortable my daughter or I was. Also, no, her shoes weren't even dirty. 

Since these drivers aren't being held accountable, they've decided that their cars, their desires, and their preferences are above the law. They do not see us and our dogs as a population that can be discriminated against, or they don't care if they are discriminating. Many of them don't even understand when we tell them we are blind. I am hoping to get my next dog very soon, and I'm already dreading the denials and trying to think of how we can make any change for ourselves. 

Sorry for the novel length of this post. Thanks for reading,

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Raul Gallegos - NAGDU via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2024 9:08 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Raul Gallegos - NAGDU <rgallegos at nagdu.org>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Uber and LYFT

Hello Vanessa. Thank you for sharing this experience. I too, have experienced situations like this. Many times, my reassurances that my god will not harm the person are enough and the situation becomes a teachable moment. Something that works for me is that in addition to telling the driver what my rights are as a blind guide dog users, I also tell them what my responsibilities are. Usually, when it's framed in such a way that they know that it's not just about rights, the situation becomes even more positive.

--
Raul Gallegos, President
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“You can live the life you want. Blindness is not what holds you back.”

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2024 5:51 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Uber and LYFT

I also find the Lyft app to be somewhat more intuitive. Further, I actually have the opportunity to include a comment about the driver and the trip if all went well.

I had a driver from LYFT today who was open about being scared of dogs. He wanted the dog to go into the cargo area of his vehicle, but I explained that the dog would lie on the floor in front of my seat and I needed to be able to control the dog. He was still a bit reluctant, but I smoothly loaded the dog into the vehicle and settled him on the floor in front of my seat. I made sure that I had control of his head so that virtue would not attempt to make contact with the driver. The driver explained that as a young child, he had been bitten by a dog, and to date, the fear of dogs persisted. It was a good trip with no issues, and I complemented the driver on doing well in spite of the fact that a dog that he was scared of was in his vehicle. He was appreciative of the compliment that I gave him. I also gave him a good rating.  He also mentioned during the early part of our trip that he understood that I needed to travel with the service dog. I don't know if this was a teachable moment, but it was an opportunity to show him that I maintained absolute control of my dog. That lowered his level of discomfort. I have some vision, and I could tell by his body actions when I started to load the dog into the vehicle that he genuinely was scared of the dog. So it was my job to make things happen smoothly, efficiently, and quietly.

Vanessa and the zoo
Set from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2024, at 5:05 PM, Leslie Hamric <lhamric930 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Me too. Although yesterday, I did take an Uber to drop something off somewhere and the driver that I had was terrific. I guess this was the first time she ever had a blind person in her car and she was from a different country than ours. She was just blown away how I could get in the car, get to the building with Omega, get inside, give the papers to the front desk, get back out and then find the car again. Definitely a teachable moment. I did a multiple stop trip so then I didn't have to pay for two different trips and it was cheaper that way. But like you, I've been avoiding Uber and taking Lyft because the Lyft people can't come back and say you should take Lyft pet. Because Lyft pet doesn't exist.
> Leslie Hamric
> Cello and Braille Music Teacher
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2024, at 3:54 PM, Vanessa Lowery via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Lately, I have been taking Lyft. I have had a few denials from them, but the level of denials seems to have dropped off to some extent. There may come a point at which they pick up again, but I hope not. One of the things that I do is Carrie a beach towel with me that is long enough to pretty much cover the length of the floor where the backseat is. This is not a perfect solution, it certainly helps. The other thing that I'm trying to do is step up my Grooming since we are at that time of the year when the dogs are blowing their winter coat in preparation for summer. I make sure that the towel is visible to the driver when he or she pulls up. When I have reached my destination, I just put the towel which I can fold down into a fairly workable size into my backpack. Since I tend to be a backpack where anyway at times, it is not inconvenient for me to have it available.
>> 
>> In the meantime, I wish everyone good luck as you file complaints. I have knocked on the department of Justice door a few times myself. Especially now that the form is familiar enough to me that I can fill it out pretty quickly on the computer.
>> 
>> Vanessa and the zoo
>> Set from my iPhone
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