[NAGDU] FW: AI robot aims to replace canes and guide dogs

Sat Mar 9 21:23:48 UTC 2024

I think, though, it depends on the developer of the app. The original developers of Soundscape (Microsoft) did a fantastic job. I could say the same for GoodMaps Outdoors, and there are those who swear by blind square. So I think those apps and probably a few others were definitely created with the blindness population in mind. But, in spite of the fact that many of those apps are good, sometimes their information can be incorrect (for example, the inaccurate information that Lazarillo gave me). I will not downplay the use of a GPS app, but I want to use it in conjunction with my own memory/wits/mental map. And of course the memory of the dog. But even with the dog beginning to learn the route and eventually learning it smoothly, I still want to be in control of the situation and will still give directional commands because I still want to be the one in charge. 
Vanessa and the zoo  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2024, at 2:37 PM, Jody ianuzzi via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I agree that basic OM is critical. You can already see the result of technology replacing basics when kids can't multiply or add without a calculator. Also, how many people depend on their GPS to navigate.
> 
> I must admit that whenever I hear about the latest technology I cringe. I love technology as much as anybody but these devices are usually developed by well-meaning Engineering students and companies that have absolutely no clue about orientation and mobility and blindness skills.
> JODY
> 
> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
> 
> 
> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> 
> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS  Erik Weihenmayer
> 
>> On Mar 9, 2024, at 2:30 PM, Yiska via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I really wish these companies would consult us as blind people to find out
>> what would actually be useful and go from there.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 12:08 PM Josh Kennedy via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't think it will ever fully replace a cane or a guide animal of any
>>> kind. They are just so much more capable than any robot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 1:18 PM Raul Gallegos - NAGDU via NAGDU <
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello everyone, this is such a great topic of discussion.
>>>> For many years, even probably longer than I have been alive, there have
>>>> been attempts by various companies to create some sort of technology that
>>>> will replace a cane or a guide dog. I often see this in the cane
>>>> department, where so-called smart canes are designed with lights,
>>> vibration
>>>> mechanisms, GPS capabilities, etc. Likewise, attempts are now made more
>>>> often to create robotic guide units. Did anyone ever watch the jetsons?
>>>> Does anyone have a Roomba or similar robotic vacuum cleaner? Has anyone
>>>> read books by Isaac Asimov or Philip K dick? The thing is, I think that
>>>> technologies like this will at some point reach the level that they will
>>>> actually become a little useful. However, as others have said, Technology
>>>> cannot replace the skills you need to know where you are and where you
>>> are
>>>> going. What this means is, it all comes down to having basic orientation
>>>> and mobility. This is something I feel very strongly about whenever
>>>> somebody uses a cane or a guide dog. If somebody were to use technology,
>>> at
>>>> this point, it might be an enhancement in some areas, but most likely, it
>>>> will be a hindrance. I love technology, yet I also know its pitfalls and
>>>> how unreliable it can be. While devices like my robotic vacuum are nice
>>> and
>>>> helpful, they don't put my life in any danger. If the battery runs out
>>>> mid-cleaning cycle, it's not a big deal.
>>>> In closing, I would like to share one of my favorite quotes said by
>>>> Christian Lange. “Technology is a useful servant but a dangerous master.”
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Raul Gallegos, President
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> rgallegos at nagdu.org
>>>> (346) 439-7444
>>>> www.nfb.org
>>>> www.nagdu.org
>>>> Facebook Group | Email list | Mastodon
>>>> Live the life you want.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery via
>>>> NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2024 12:15 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: AI robot aims to replace canes and guide dogs
>>>> 
>>>> Good grief, indeed! The author is correct that the price of training the
>>>> dog from the time it is born possibly even before that one following the
>>>> pregnancy of the mother), the raising of the puppy, the training of the
>>>> dog, and the matching of dog in person, may cost $50,000 or more
>>> depending
>>>> on the US school. However, for those schools that do charge a nominal (I
>>>> emphasize nominal) fee, The price of the first dog is $150. The price for
>>>> each successor dog is $50. If you're a veteran, you only pay one Buck.
>>>> 
>>>> And regardless of whether you use a cane, a dog, or some kind of gizmo,
>>>> you still need to know where you're going. Even if a GPS is built in,
>>>> sometimes they are not accurate (point out a location in the wrong
>>>> direction, etc.). And at some point, just as we have to retire totally
>>> used
>>>> to death canes or dogs that are ready to retire, technology poops out and
>>>> at some point has to be replaced. I think I'll stick with the dog.
>>>> 
>>>> It's as if the author/developer of this device seems to imply that when
>>> we
>>>> use his product, we can just shut our brains down, kind of take a nap,
>>> and
>>>> just let the thing take us where it seems to know we want to go. Ain't
>>> such
>>>> an animal that works like that. Orientation and mobility skills still
>>> have
>>>> to be utilized. Yikes!
>>>> 
>>>> Now, can adjusting to blindness when you lose your sight as an adult, or
>>>> even as an older child, be initially challenging? Yes. Anytime we face
>>> some
>>>> new situation in our lives whether it is related to blindness or not, a
>>>> learning curve is expected. But you motor your way through that learning
>>>> curve until the skill that you need to achieve has successfully occurred.
>>>> it requires hard work, but hard work didn't hurt anybody.
>>>> 
>>>> I was dragged to job access with speech, Abril display later followed by
>>> a
>>>> braille note taker, and the iPhone kicking and screaming. The learning
>>>> curve drove me nuts with each of those pieces of technology (especially
>>> the
>>>> iPhone). But I mastered all three of those assistive technologies, and I
>>>> use them on a daily basis. Hard work, yes. Was it worth it, yes. Did it
>>>> drive me nuts at times, yes. But I survived. I got through it. I learned
>>>> what I needed to learn.
>>>> 
>>>> My dad has recently moved into an assisted-living facility, and I need to
>>>> learn how to get from the front door of the building to his room, and
>>> then
>>>> reverse the route. Thus far, I am more comfortable with the route that is
>>>> needed to exit the building then I am with the route to take to get to
>>>> dad's room. On some occasions, I can't reverse some routes initially. But
>>>> overtime, I will. I will use specific techniques with the dog to help
>>> both
>>>> of us figure things out. He's actually getting the hang of it more
>>> quickly
>>>> than I am, but we're a team, we will use our O and M and dog handling
>>>> skills to figure things out.
>>>> 
>>>> OK user would have to do the same thing (find landmarks within the
>>>> building that would help him or her navigate the hallways in the
>>>> assisted-living facility. Someone using this new gizmo would have to do
>>> the
>>>> same thing. The place is huge, is crawling with hallways, so you can't
>>>> dismiss the fact that you need to use your own skills to figure out where
>>>> things are regardless of what type of mobility age you use.
>>>> 
>>>> OK, I'm going to go back under my rock and hide.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Vanessa and the zoo
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/joshknnd1982%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/thunderwalker321%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/val4dogs%40gmail.com