[NAGDU] FW: AI robot aims to replace canes and guide dogs

Sat Mar 9 23:44:11 UTC 2024

But, Tracy, GPS, whether use for the blind or the sided, are not designed and never were designed to talk about terrain changes. They are meant for directional information only. The exception is that the GPS apps that we use sometimes also provide information about businesses we are passing, parking lots, The approach of an upcoming intersection, etc. So your expectation of what the GPS system is designed to do is a little bit unrealistic. Even the GPS system that friends of mine who are in vehicles use do not talk about terrain changes. That's not what they're meant to do. 
Vanessa and the zoo  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2024, at 5:50 PM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I have used GPS to work new routes, or explore new ones, but they don't ever tell me about sidewalkless routes.  I'm walking on the grass, because it's a moderately busy street, and suddenly there's a very steep hill.  We have to deal with it, because the GPS doesn't know beans about it.
> GPS is not made for blind people.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2024 2:38 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: AI robot aims to replace canes and guide dogs
> 
> I like the quote at the end of the message. It fits well with the example that I gave about the Lazarillo app which sometimes gives incorrect information if you happen to already know where you are (for instance, when it told me that the middle school was on the right side of the street when in fact it's on the left). So if something like that happened in an area where you've never been, and Lazarillo gave you incorrect information, you would be considerably up the creek. That's why I like Soundscape and GoodMaps Outdoors. Those two navigational apps have proved to be the most accurate for me whether I'm in a known or unknown area. Both both have come in handy when helping me map out a new route that I want to learn. However, I primarily use them as conveyors of environmental information around me (businesses, parking lots, etc., etc.). During the summer, virtue and I learned a new route going clockwise in one of the neighborhoods where we stroll. But I wanted to reverse the route. Under most circumstances, I can reverse a route. But I wanted to know that I was going in the correct direction when going counterclockwise. So I used either Soundscape or GoodMaps Outdoors to locate the street where I would start the route reversal. I actually need to review that again since it's been a while since I've worked that route in that specific direction, but I have a better mental map in my head even now so that when we do that route again, I will know that we are correct. I will probably do it the first time using GoodMaps Outdoors, but after that, I should be pretty confident that I can do it without any  Technological assistance such as GoodMaps Outdoors or any other GPS app.  This new AI thing does all the work for you. I like the fact that I'm using the app and my own skills and those of my dogs rather than relying on some kind of robot. Theoretically, once you learn the route that the robot shows you, you could also do it independently. But I like matching wits with myself, my dog, and the information that I gather from The GPS app as needed. I don't know. Perhaps this would be more ideal for folks who really struggle with using either a cane or a Guide Dog. But the less technology that I have to rely on, the better. Hope all this makes sense. It's Saturday, it's raining here in Maryland, and we're still dealing with the dad stuff as we get my 90-year-old dad settled into assisted-living. He's there now, but it's only been a few days, so the adjustment. Is still in place. So not only do I have to learn how to get around in there,  But I have to help dad begin to be even more comfortable with his new surroundings.
> 
> Going back under my rock and hiding from the rain.
> Vanessa and the zoo
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 9, 2024, at 1:17 PM, Raul Gallegos - NAGDU <rgallegos at nagdu.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, this is such a great topic of discussion.
>> For many years, even probably longer than I have been alive, there have been attempts by various companies to create some sort of technology that will replace a cane or a guide dog. I often see this in the cane department, where so-called smart canes are designed with lights, vibration mechanisms, GPS capabilities, etc. Likewise, attempts are now made more often to create robotic guide units. Did anyone ever watch the jetsons? Does anyone have a Roomba or similar robotic vacuum cleaner? Has anyone read books by Isaac Asimov or Philip K dick? The thing is, I think that technologies like this will at some point reach the level that they will actually become a little useful. However, as others have said, Technology cannot replace the skills you need to know where you are and where you are going. What this means is, it all comes down to having basic orientation and mobility. This is something I feel very strongly about whenever somebody uses a cane or a guide dog. If somebody were to use technology, at this point, it might be an enhancement in some areas, but most likely, it will be a hindrance. I love technology, yet I also know its pitfalls and how unreliable it can be. While devices like my robotic vacuum are nice and helpful, they don't put my life in any danger. If the battery runs out mid-cleaning cycle, it's not a big deal.
>> In closing, I would like to share one of my favorite quotes said by Christian Lange. “Technology is a useful servant but a dangerous master.”
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Raul Gallegos, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users rgallegos at nagdu.org
>> (346) 439-7444
>> www.nfb.org
>> www.nagdu.org
>> Facebook Group | Email list | Mastodon Live the life you want.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2024 12:15 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: AI robot aims to replace canes and guide dogs
>> 
>> Good grief, indeed! The author is correct that the price of training the dog from the time it is born possibly even before that one following the pregnancy of the mother), the raising of the puppy, the training of the dog, and the matching of dog in person, may cost $50,000 or more depending on the US school. However, for those schools that do charge a nominal (I emphasize nominal) fee, The price of the first dog is $150. The price for each successor dog is $50. If you're a veteran, you only pay one Buck.
>> 
>> And regardless of whether you use a cane, a dog, or some kind of gizmo, you still need to know where you're going. Even if a GPS is built in, sometimes they are not accurate (point out a location in the wrong direction, etc.). And at some point, just as we have to retire totally used to death canes or dogs that are ready to retire, technology poops out and at some point has to be replaced. I think I'll stick with the dog.
>> 
>> It's as if the author/developer of this device seems to imply that when we use his product, we can just shut our brains down, kind of take a nap, and just let the thing take us where it seems to know we want to go. Ain't such an animal that works like that. Orientation and mobility skills still have to be utilized. Yikes!
>> 
>> Now, can adjusting to blindness when you lose your sight as an adult, or even as an older child, be initially challenging? Yes. Anytime we face some new situation in our lives whether it is related to blindness or not, a learning curve is expected. But you motor your way through that learning curve until the skill that you need to achieve has successfully occurred. it requires hard work, but hard work didn't hurt anybody.
>> 
>> I was dragged to job access with speech, Abril display later followed by a braille note taker, and the iPhone kicking and screaming. The learning curve drove me nuts with each of those pieces of technology (especially the iPhone). But I mastered all three of those assistive technologies, and I use them on a daily basis. Hard work, yes. Was it worth it, yes. Did it drive me nuts at times, yes. But I survived. I got through it. I learned what I needed to learn.
>> 
>> My dad has recently moved into an assisted-living facility, and I need to learn how to get from the front door of the building to his room, and then reverse the route. Thus far, I am more comfortable with the route that is needed to exit the building then I am with the route to take to get to dad's room. On some occasions, I can't reverse some routes initially. But overtime, I will. I will use specific techniques with the dog to help both of us figure things out. He's actually getting the hang of it more quickly than I am, but we're a team, we will use our O and M and dog handling skills to figure things out.
>> 
>> OK user would have to do the same thing (find landmarks within the building that would help him or her navigate the hallways in the assisted-living facility. Someone using this new gizmo would have to do the same thing. The place is huge, is crawling with hallways, so you can't dismiss the fact that you need to use your own skills to figure out where things are regardless of what type of mobility age you use.
>> 
>> OK, I'm going to go back under my rock and hide.
>> 
>> 
>> Vanessa and the zoo
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
> 
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