[NAGDU] student eligibility

Wed Mar 20 05:55:19 UTC 2024

Lowerage limits make sense.
But someone wrote recently that one guide school  had an upper age limit - forgot whichone. That's all I'm talking about.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sherry Gomes via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 5:06 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Sherry Gomes <sherry.gomes at outlook.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility

There are a lot of things people under 18 are not allowed to do. Things like restrictions on obvious stuff like drinking voting, getting married without parental permission, joining the military. There are also many rules about kids working, what they can and cannot do, how many hours they can work, times of day they can't work and so on. I've never had a problem with the must be sixteen to get a guide dog. It's about the right time to expect someone to be ready for the responsibility of being the dog's soul caretaker and not leaving up to the parents or whatever adults are with them. I applied for my first dog as soon as I turned sixteen and would have been accepted except that the resource teacher at my high school, everyone, adults I mean, thought he was god's gift to the disabled kids and their parents, he talked the school and then my folks out of allowing me to get my dog. I got it as soon as I graduated from high school.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 7:59 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility

I'm Web crawling on safari, and here's what I found this far. Guide Dog foundation does not state any age criteria at all, however, well guiding ice for the blind does not give an upper age limit, they do give a lower age limit. In order to get a dog from guiding eyes, you have to be at least 16 years of age. You can apply at a younger age, but you will not be allowed to go into class until you're 16.

I will have to go on the computer to check leader dogs because their website is not particularly navigable on the iPhone. I can move around and find things, but I can't find anything about the application process. So let's move to pilot dogs. They do not give an upper limit, but they do give a lower limit of 16 years of age.

Southeastern will take teenagers between 15 and 17 years of age, they don't specify a starting age for adults. There is no upper age limit.

I'm not going to go through all of the schools so I will go back to leader dog at some point and provide some information about that. Here's the thing, while it appears that most of the schools do not give an upper age limit, they do expect a lower age limit. They emphasize that the person needs to be mature enough to handle a dog, cognitively intact enough to handle a dog, and physically fit enough to handle a dog.

So the point that I am making is that while the schools, or at least several of them) don't have an upper age limit, they do still have a lower age limit, so it could be argued that they still look at age.

Vanessa and the zoo
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:26 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I expect they have to accept the application. I can’t test the theory
> because I am an alumna. the Cindy Lou Ray Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 8:13 PM, Debbie Gabe via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> No matter what your age I don't think anyone should be a shoe-in. There are a lot of young people (and by young I mean younger than 60) who get evaluated for a dog by GDB and are told they need more mobility training or need to be able to walk on their own with their cane for longer distances and be able to cross lighted intersections independently with cane. I know schools used to be less strict who could get a dog decades ago, because I know people who are on their 4 or 5th dog who have terrible mobility skills. But it's changing now and for the better I think.I remember decades ago  blind people told me to not get a dog but to focus on improving my cane travel skills. People back then told me that only people who couldn't master cane travel got dogs.  I know that's not true today, at lleast at GDB because I know people who were told to get more cane travel skills. If schools want their dogs to be used properly, then they will only give them to people with good skills, no matter the age.
>> My concern was only about the guide school who posted the upper age limit on their website. I think they are at risk of being sued if someone with good skills but old is denied a dog. It's only the stamina and skills that should matter, along with responsibility and not being violent toward the  dog of course.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 11:33 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
>>
>> If the school experiences a number of people not making it through
>> classes and their age is in the 70s, if you apply and they see red
>> flags, they will put you on hold if they feel you can  correct the
>> issue and deny you if they don’t. If later they feel you have
>> corrected enough, you will again be considered. They need to have a
>> high rate of success. I believe they could be more flexible than what
>> their age limit says. GDB has no age limit, but that doesn’t make you
>> a shoe in. Cindy Lou Ray Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 3:22 PM, Vanessa Lowery via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just remember that when you were talking about age discrimination, you are inditing all of the schools.
>>>
>>> However, also remember that all of the schools have the capacity to look at each application on a case by case basis and disregard the age limit rule. So my thinking is that if they offer some wiggle room and some considerations, then that means that they are open to possibilities.
>>>
>>> Vanessa and the zoo
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 4:02 PM, Debbie Gabe via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, I was 73 when I got my guide dog also. And I think all the guide schools should be held responsible to not break federatl law and discriminate against people based soley on age. Skill level, yes. If an old person doesn't have the stamina or skills, they shouldn't get a dog, just like if a blind person in their 20s doesn't have the stamina or mobility skills, then they should not get a dog either.But to have an age limit posted on their website is pretty much ageism!
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery
>>>> via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 5:30 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
>>>>
>>>> Additionally, age discrimination cannot be stated as being a problem because all of the schools set age limits (how young or how old). So if you're gonna lay that claim, you have to lay it on every Guide Dog school in the United States. As Marge stated, The Seeing Eye does exercise flexibility, especially with older individuals who have been able to successfully demonstrate that they can handle the rigor of training. marj is correct that not only did we have the gentleman who was in his 70s, but within my specific team (my instructor and her four students, there was a first timer who was in her early 70s. Now granted, she was under 75. But nevertheless, she met the criteria.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, Marge, tell your brother that his brother is successfully recovering from his surgery because of his indiscretion when it came to consuming a forbidden item.
>>>> Vanessa and the zoo
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:51 AM, Marj Schneider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen quite a lot of flexibility from Seeing Eye over the years in terms of student age and activity level. In my class last February, where Vanessa and I were matched with shepherd brothers Virtue and Verlin, there was a first-time classmate who was 77. He was matched with a very frisky male lab.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marj and Verlin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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