[NAGDU] student eligibility

Wed Mar 20 17:00:32 UTC 2024

sometimes even when I am being guided I still keep my cane out just to make
sure I am protected from obstacles and things on both sides. And sometimes
I fold it up, depends on the situation and where I'm at.

On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 12:57 PM Leslie Hamric via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Oh my mom did that all the time. Whenever we went somewhere in public she
> was just like, folded up. You don't need the cane. It wasn't until I was a
> freshman in college that it hit her how important that came was. But until
> then, it was a struggle.. She didn't want me using it because people would
> look at her And that was more important than my independence. She's OK with
> it now thank God but it's sad when we is blind people have to go through
> that with our families.
> Leslie Hamric
> Cello and Braille Music Teacher
>
> > On Mar 20, 2024, at 11:44 AM, Debbie Gabe via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > That's like parents telling a blind kid that they don't need to bring
> their cane.  That's part of maturity - advocating for yourself.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
> NAGDU
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2024 4:36 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: carcione at access.net
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
> >
> > I think there's more to consider than the maturity of the young person.
> In my first class, there was a 16-year-old.  She could handle her dog fine,
> but I heard she later returned it because she couldn't stand up to her
> family saying "Leave the dog at home this time."  My family used to say
> that to me too, but I wasn't living at home then, just visiting, and I was
> tough enough to insist on using my dog when I was there.
> > I think dog schools also consider the school environment.  Will the
> other kids be always trying to distract or harass the dog?
> > Tracy
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jody ianuzzi via
> NAGDU
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2024 9:43 AM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Jody ianuzzi <thunderwalker321 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
> >
> > I think your resource teacher was way out of line! I personally think
> that the age restriction for kids should also be individually assessed. I
> can think of 12 to 14-year-olds who have taken care of dogs all of their
> life and have the maturity to take care of the dog. I can also think of
> some 20 and 30-year-olds who will never reach this point!
> > JODY
> >
> > To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
> >
> >
> > thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> >
> > "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS
> Erik Weihenmayer
> >
> >> On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:07 PM, Sherry Gomes via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> There are a lot of things people under 18 are not allowed to do.
> Things like restrictions on obvious stuff like drinking voting, getting
> married without parental permission, joining the military. There are also
> many rules about kids working, what they can and cannot do, how many hours
> they can work, times of day they can't work and so on. I've never had a
> problem with the must be sixteen to get a guide dog. It's about the right
> time to expect someone to be ready for the responsibility of being the
> dog's soul caretaker and not leaving up to the parents or whatever adults
> are with them. I applied for my first dog as soon as I turned sixteen and
> would have been accepted except that the resource teacher at my high
> school, everyone, adults I mean, thought he was god's gift to the disabled
> kids and their parents, he talked the school and then my folks out of
> allowing me to get my dog. I got it as soon as I graduated from high school.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery via
> >> NAGDU
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 7:59 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
> >>
> >> I'm Web crawling on safari, and here's what I found this far. Guide Dog
> foundation does not state any age criteria at all, however, well guiding
> ice for the blind does not give an upper age limit, they do give a lower
> age limit. In order to get a dog from guiding eyes, you have to be at least
> 16 years of age. You can apply at a younger age, but you will not be
> allowed to go into class until you're 16.
> >>
> >> I will have to go on the computer to check leader dogs because their
> website is not particularly navigable on the iPhone. I can move around and
> find things, but I can't find anything about the application process. So
> let's move to pilot dogs. They do not give an upper limit, but they do give
> a lower limit of 16 years of age.
> >>
> >> Southeastern will take teenagers between 15 and 17 years of age, they
> don't specify a starting age for adults. There is no upper age limit.
> >>
> >> I'm not going to go through all of the schools so I will go back to
> leader dog at some point and provide some information about that. Here's
> the thing, while it appears that most of the schools do not give an upper
> age limit, they do expect a lower age limit. They emphasize that the person
> needs to be mature enough to handle a dog, cognitively intact enough to
> handle a dog, and physically fit enough to handle a dog.
> >>
> >> So the point that I am making is that while the schools, or at least
> several of them) don't have an upper age limit, they do still have a lower
> age limit, so it could be argued that they still look at age.
> >>
> >>
> >> Vanessa and the zoo
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:26 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I expect they have to accept the application. I can’t test the
> >>> theory because I am an alumna. the Cindy Lou Ray Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 8:13 PM, Debbie Gabe via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> No matter what your age I don't think anyone should be a shoe-in.
> There are a lot of young people (and by young I mean younger than 60) who
> get evaluated for a dog by GDB and are told they need more mobility
> training or need to be able to walk on their own with their cane for longer
> distances and be able to cross lighted intersections independently with
> cane. I know schools used to be less strict who could get a dog decades
> ago, because I know people who are on their 4 or 5th dog who have terrible
> mobility skills. But it's changing now and for the better I think.I
> remember decades ago  blind people told me to not get a dog but to focus on
> improving my cane travel skills. People back then told me that only people
> who couldn't master cane travel got dogs.  I know that's not true today, at
> lleast at GDB because I know people who were told to get more cane travel
> skills. If schools want their dogs to be used properly, then they will only
> give them to people with good skills, no matter the age.
> >>>> My concern was only about the guide school who posted the upper age
> limit on their website. I think they are at risk of being sued if someone
> with good skills but old is denied a dog. It's only the stamina and skills
> that should matter, along with responsibility and not being violent toward
> the  dog of course.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 11:33 AM
> >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
> >>>>
> >>>> If the school experiences a number of people not making it through
> >>>> classes and their age is in the 70s, if you apply and they see red
> >>>> flags, they will put you on hold if they feel you can  correct the
> >>>> issue and deny you if they don’t. If later they feel you have
> >>>> corrected enough, you will again be considered. They need to have a
> >>>> high rate of success. I believe they could be more flexible than
> >>>> what their age limit says. GDB has no age limit, but that doesn’t
> >>>> make you a shoe in. Cindy Lou Ray Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 3:22 PM, Vanessa Lowery via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just remember that when you were talking about age discrimination,
> you are inditing all of the schools.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, also remember that all of the schools have the capacity to
> look at each application on a case by case basis and disregard the age
> limit rule. So my thinking is that if they offer some wiggle room and some
> considerations, then that means that they are open to possibilities.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Vanessa and the zoo
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 4:02 PM, Debbie Gabe via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, I was 73 when I got my guide dog also. And I think all the
> guide schools should be held responsible to not break federatl law and
> discriminate against people based soley on age. Skill level, yes. If an old
> person doesn't have the stamina or skills, they shouldn't get a dog, just
> like if a blind person in their 20s doesn't have the stamina or mobility
> skills, then they should not get a dog either.But to have an age limit
> posted on their website is pretty much ageism!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery
> >>>>>> via NAGDU
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 5:30 AM
> >>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>>>> Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>> Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Additionally, age discrimination cannot be stated as being a
> problem because all of the schools set age limits (how young or how old).
> So if you're gonna lay that claim, you have to lay it on every Guide Dog
> school in the United States. As Marge stated, The Seeing Eye does exercise
> flexibility, especially with older individuals who have been able to
> successfully demonstrate that they can handle the rigor of training. marj
> is correct that not only did we have the gentleman who was in his 70s, but
> within my specific team (my instructor and her four students, there was a
> first timer who was in her early 70s. Now granted, she was under 75. But
> nevertheless, she met the criteria.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> By the way, Marge, tell your brother that his brother is
> successfully recovering from his surgery because of his indiscretion when
> it came to consuming a forbidden item.
> >>>>>> Vanessa and the zoo
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:51 AM, Marj Schneider via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello All,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've seen quite a lot of flexibility from Seeing Eye over the
> years in terms of student age and activity level. In my class last
> February, where Vanessa and I were matched with shepherd brothers Virtue
> and Verlin, there was a first-time classmate who was 77. He was matched
> with a very frisky male lab.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Marj and Verlin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
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> >>
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