[NAGDU] student eligibility

Thu Mar 21 13:54:14 UTC 2024

In my first class in 1979, I think there were a few people who hadn't 
been blind long enough to get cane travel training.  I was glad they 
could get dogs so they didn't have to wait to complete such training.  I 
believe that particularly then and before that, and probably now, good 
travel training could be hard to come by at least in some places.  As 
far as I know, Morris Frank and many early guide dog users had little or 
no mobility training and lived full lives nonetheless.  I did have some, 
and agree that you're better off to have good training beforehand if 
possible, especially so you don't have to fear that you can't get around 
without one.  Still, having seen those folks in my class, I'm leery of 
making it a requirement.

Al

On 3/19/24 21:11, Debbie Gabe via NAGDU wrote:
> No matter what your age I don't think anyone should be a shoe-in. There are a lot of young people (and by young I mean younger than 60) who get evaluated for a dog by GDB and are told they need more mobility training or need to be able to walk on their own with their cane for longer distances and be able to cross lighted intersections independently with cane. I know schools used to be less strict who could get a dog decades ago, because I know people who are on their 4 or 5th dog who have terrible mobility skills. But it's changing now and for the better I think.I remember decades ago  blind people told me to not get a dog but to focus on improving my cane travel skills. People back then told me that only people who couldn't master cane travel got dogs.  I know that's not true today, at lleast at GDB because I know people who were told to get more cane travel skills. If schools want their dogs to be used properly, then they will only give them to people with good skills, no matter the age.
> My concern was only about the guide school who posted the upper age limit on their website. I think they are at risk of being sued if someone with good skills but old is denied a dog. It's only the stamina and skills that should matter, along with responsibility and not being violent toward the  dog of course.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 11:33 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
>
> If the school experiences a number of people not making it through classes and their age is in the 70s, if you apply and they see red flags, they will put you on hold if they feel you can  correct the issue and deny you if they don’t. If later they feel you have corrected enough, you will again be considered. They need to have a high rate of success. I believe they could be more flexible than what their age limit says. GDB has no age limit, but that doesn’t make you a shoe in. Cindy Lou Ray Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 3:22 PM, Vanessa Lowery via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that when you were talking about age discrimination, you are inditing all of the schools.
>>
>> However, also remember that all of the schools have the capacity to look at each application on a case by case basis and disregard the age limit rule. So my thinking is that if they offer some wiggle room and some considerations, then that means that they are open to possibilities.
>>
>> Vanessa and the zoo
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 4:02 PM, Debbie Gabe via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I was 73 when I got my guide dog also. And I think all the guide schools should be held responsible to not break federatl law and discriminate against people based soley on age. Skill level, yes. If an old person doesn't have the stamina or skills, they shouldn't get a dog, just like if a blind person in their 20s doesn't have the stamina or mobility skills, then they should not get a dog either.But to have an age limit posted on their website is pretty much ageism!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vanessa Lowery
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 5:30 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Vanessa Lowery <val4dogs at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] student eligibility
>>>
>>> Additionally, age discrimination cannot be stated as being a problem because all of the schools set age limits (how young or how old). So if you're gonna lay that claim, you have to lay it on every Guide Dog school in the United States. As Marge stated, The Seeing Eye does exercise flexibility, especially with older individuals who have been able to successfully demonstrate that they can handle the rigor of training. marj is correct that not only did we have the gentleman who was in his 70s, but within my specific team (my instructor and her four students, there was a first timer who was in her early 70s. Now granted, she was under 75. But nevertheless, she met the criteria.
>>>
>>> By the way, Marge, tell your brother that his brother is successfully recovering from his surgery because of his indiscretion when it came to consuming a forbidden item.
>>> Vanessa and the zoo
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:51 AM, Marj Schneider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've seen quite a lot of flexibility from Seeing Eye over the years in terms of student age and activity level. In my class last February, where Vanessa and I were matched with shepherd brothers Virtue and Verlin, there was a first-time classmate who was 77. He was matched with a very frisky male lab.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marj and Verlin
>>>>
>>>>
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