[NAGDU] Guide dog school wish list

Christina Moore moorechristina107 at gmail.com
Sat Nov 2 03:08:28 UTC 2024 

I wish training could be longer for those of us who may need it. I feel
like everything is so compact and done so quickly it is hard to remember it
all once home. That's just me though.
Christina

On Fri, Nov 1, 2024 at 7:43 PM Sherry Gomes via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> GDB does home training in some circumstances and they have goldens.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Kerry Macdonald via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2024 1:11 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Kerry Macdonald <kerrymac31 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dog school wish list
>
> I have done home training with two different programs, and absolutely
> loved them both. They were both right for me at different times in my life
> when my needs have been different. Now, I am considering applying to the
> seeing eye, since I would really like a golden retriever, and I don’t know
> of any home training programs which offer them. However, I don’t know how I
> will do with a residential program.
> I really wish they did home training for first time handlers. I have
> teenage children and a job which would make it difficult for me to leave
> home for 2 1/2 weeks.
>
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 1, 2024, at 11:57 AM, Al Sten-Clanton via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Kerry and all!
> >
> >
> > Home training sounds great to me.  A couple of dogs back, I considered
> applying to Fidelco, mostly because of the home training and also because I
> wondered what it would be like to work with a German shepherd and knew
> that's what I'd get from there.  I didn't, for a couple of reasons.  I
> don't know if Seeing Eye could do more home training than it does, or how
> it decides whether to do it for anybody.  There might even be some value in
> beginning my work with a new dog in a place I don't know very well, since
> at that point it might be good to learn how to trust that dog.  I do know
> that home training necessarily would have given me a lot more subway work,
> not just one trip to New Y9ork City.  It also would have allowed me to get
> a better sense of some difficult traffic areas that I avoid because I don't
> have some help to understand them.
> >
> >
> > Best!
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
> >> On 11/1/24 08:06, Kerry Macdonald via NAGDU wrote:
> >> I would be very interested to learn more about this program. I have had
> all of my dogs with home training and think it is great. I agree with you
> Al about not limiting blind people solely based on the ability to obtain
> extensive travel training. It is not always available, and unfortunately it
> is becoming less available with the shortages of qualified instructors now.
> >>
> >> Yes, I do agree that schools have to vet everyone properly and there
> should be Certain qualifications to be met, but not everyone is as
> proficient as they should be in travel training, and there are some of us
> who have mild learning disabilities, which make it more difficult. I
> believe that people should be judged on an individual basis, based on their
> own particular set of circumstances.
> >> Personally, I have some struggles with spatial orientation and due to
> the flexibility and support I received from my programs I have been able to
> work three dogs successfully.
> >>
> >> Kerry
> >>
> >> Kerry
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Oct 31, 2024, at 11:15 AM, Richard Fiorello via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>         Hi;
> >>> I wasn't at all familiar with Occupaws so it was nice to hear about
> something new.  I'm glad you have had a good experience with them.
> >>>    Richard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 4:55 PM
> >>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>> Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dog school wish list
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I have been reading all of these messages and I have to say what an
> interesting topic.
> >>>
> >>> I have gotten my three dogs from Occupaws Guide Dog Association in
> Madison Wisconsin.  I chose them primarily because of their home training.
> In all three experiences I was treated with the upmost respect.  Their
> application process is very thorough and extensive.  The directors of
> Occupaws are not paid anything, completely voluntary.  After having a dog
> for one year they do a follow-up visit and if everything is fine, we get
> ownership of the dog.
> >>>
> >>> As far as having a blind person work for said guide dog school, I
> would like to think that they would be hired on the basis of their
> qualifications, not on the basis of their blindness.
> >>>
> >>> Dash and Janell
> >>>
> >>> I can't say enough positives things about Occupaws, and I am forever
> grateful to them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Sten-Clanton
> >>> via NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 8:09 PM
> >>> To: Julie A. Orozco via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: Al Sten-Clanton <albert.e.sten_clanton at verizon.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dog school wish list
> >>>
> >>> I have a couple of thoughts.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> First, I doubt that Morris Frank had great travel skills, and of
> course, it wasn't his fault.  I also had classmates at least in my first
> class who were getting dogs after having been blind for only a few months
> or a year.  I would not want to see folks like those kept out of a program
> because they didn't or couldn't get the travel skills that others of us
> were able to get.  Maybe decent travel training is more available than it
> was in 1979, when I got my first dog, but I doubt it's available enough to
> justify that kind of disqualification.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Second, I grew up with dogs, and every adult I knew who had a dog in
> those days owned that dog.  I was surprised to learn in my mid-twenties
> that you didn't necessarily own your dog after leaving your guide dog
> school.  It seemed and still seems to me an essential part of treating
> guide dog users as the adults or almost-adults we are supposed to be, an
> element of the equality we blind folks claim.  I know others disagree and
> am interested in their reasons.  I also know that there's some thought out
> there that we humans shouldn't own dogs, although I have never heard how
> any alternative would work.  Finally, I know that software and some other
> things are increasingly sold as services or leased, rather than as a
> property transfer from the seller to the buyer.
> >>> So I can acknowledge that actual ownership might not be as central to
> people these days as it was a while back, even if I dislike it.  That does
> not account for schools in those old days not transferring guide dog
> ownership to their graduates, however.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, again, I'm interested in other perspectives on both my
> observations.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Al
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/29/24 17:48, Julie A. Orozco via NAGDU wrote:
> >>>> This is a great topic!
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree about hiring more blind staff including blind guide dog
> trainers. Some schools have hardly any blind staff at all, and that should
> not be acceptable.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would also make sure the school has high expectations of blind
> people, both in general and in terms of its applicants and graduates. I've
> been to a couple schools now, and mostly, the staff had high expectations
> of us. But some clearly did not, and it showed. I think these high
> expectations should transfer into the application process as well. I don't
> think blind people who work guide dogs need to be perfect travelors or
> anything, but I've definitely seen people go through schools who seriously
> need more travel training with a white cane before they get a dog.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to see full ownership sooner and possibly a more
> rigorous application process. I'm not trying to open a can of worms, but
> owning my own dog is important to me. If a school can do more up front to
> vet applications, maybe periods of shared ownership can at least be
> shortened because the school has done more work to get to know applicants.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've thought about this topic a lot in recent months. Can you tell?
> >>>> 😊
> >>>>
> >>>> Julie
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 10:20 AM
> >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Cc: Tara Briggs <thflute at gmail.com>
> >>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Guide dog school wish list
> >>>>
> >>>>  Hi Kary and others on this list! Kary, I think you made some good
> points in your last email. Would anyone else like to chime in? If you were
> suddenly appointed president of a dog guide school, with unlimited powers
> to enact any changes you wish, what would they be and why? I look forward
> to everyone’s replies. Personally, I would start by hiring a lot more blind
> employees. For example, I don’t see why the staff in the dorms couldn’t be
> blind people with experience using a dog.
> >>>> —
> >>>> Tara Briggs
> >>>> Check out my podcast, Crip Parenting on your podcast platform of
> choice.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Kerry Macdonald via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Mike, I like how you tell it like it is lol.
> >>>>> I’m sorry you had that experience and can’t agree with you more. I
> think unfortunately a lot more of this is going on today. Personally, I do
> not like the direction that many of the schools are going. I am glad to say
> that we still have some schools like Freedom, the Seeing Eye and a couple
> of others, who treat us with dignity and respect. However, I don’t know if
> others will agree with me or not, but I feel like it is trending the other
> way in some cases. I wonder if there is a way for us as consumers to make
> our voices heard with the schools and let them know what we want from them,
> as well as them telling us  What they would like from us. It is a
> relationship and works both ways.
> >>>>> Personally, I do not like how so many of the schools that we have in
> this country have switched to food reward anas their main method of
> training and do not offer  unconditional ownership.
> >>>>> I understand that not everyone wants this, but I believe if schools
> thoroughly vet their clients during the application process that it should
> be offered as an option for those who do want it.
> >>>>> Also, I know financially, the schools have to consider the breeds
> that makes sense, but I would like to see them begin to offer more of a
> variety of breeds. Again, I do not want to offend anyone, however,
> personally, I do not want to work with a lab, and as someone who doesn’t,
> my choices are becoming more and more limited.
> >>>>> For me, basically, all I am saying is, I would like to advocate for
> more choice, and more of a partnership between us and our schools. After
> all, without us, the schools would not have programs at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do not want to start a bunch of controversy on here, this is just
> my opinion based on recent observations as I research some schools to help
> a couple of my friends out. I feel like, although there are many schools in
> this country, most of them, with a couple of exceptions are basically
> cookie-cutter copies of one another to a large degree.
> >>>>> Anyway, just my opinion I do not want to offend anyone. Take care.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kerry
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 28, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe we ought to change the subject line on this thread. I’m
> >>>>>> not moderator anymore, but I thought about it as I finished
> >>>>>> making the same error.Patronism by guide dog schools was Cindy
> >>>>>> Lou Ray Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 28, 2024, at 12:30 PM, Jody ianuzzi via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hello Mike,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm sorry that you had that experience getting your guide dog. I
> had just the opposite experience at the Seeing Eye. Their motto is
> independence with dignity. I felt very respected as well as respecting
> everyone there. Maybe you should consider Seeing Eye for your next dog.
> >>>>>>> JODY
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO
> >>>>>>> BARRIERS  Erik Weihenmayer
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 28, 2024, at 11:38 AM, whistlersmothersson--- via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>     In my opinion, the value of a guide dog is all a marketing
> tool for programs to justify grant requests and solicit donations. It seems
> to be based upon the annual budget of the program and how many dogs they
> place. I also think that some CEOs are very overpaid for running a
> nonprofit organization. For instance, titus Herman who runs Southeastern
> Guide Dogs is paid nearly $500,000. And his former job as a Goodwill
> executive should tell us everything about his perspective on the capacity
> of disabled people. Finally, one only needs to look at the direction of
> Southeastern Guide Dogs and their recent name change to Dogs Inc. to know
> their commitment to training guide dogs. I do believe people with talent
> should be well compensated for their talent but this sort of salary for the
> leader of a nonprofit is obscene!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This being said, I earn much more than Mr. Herman, yet while at
> Southeastern, I was treated like a child and talked down to. Titus would
> walk around the building like he was some sort of overseer checking out his
> sharecroppers.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Margo
> >>>>>>>> Downey via NAGDU
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 11:09 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>>>>>> Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Margo Downey <margo.downey at roadrunner.com>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: Uber Almost Got Me Killed!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Actually, last I heard, our dogs are woth $70,000.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Margo and Tami
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jody
> >>>>>>>> ianuzzi via NAGDU
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 9:58 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>>>>>> Users
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Jody ianuzzi
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: Uber Almost Got Me Killed!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> A friend and I were discussing this situation. The driver of the
> Mercedes kept talking about how his car was worth $60,000 and didn't want
> it ruined by the dog. Hey! Our dogs are worth $60,000 and we don't want
> them ruined by Uber drivers!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am horrified that a department of justice and the local Judge
> did not take the assault and battery charges seriously! We already know
> Uber is not on our side but the law should be on our side! Hopefully the
> lawyers  that witnessed the situation will pursue this situation with the
> state attorney general office.
> >>>>>>>> JODY
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO
> >>>>>>>> BARRIERS  Erik Weihenmayer
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024, at 4:11 AM, whistlersmothersson--- via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> I looked at old messages from this group and see a lot about
> Uber. I got this from another group and thought you would like to read it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> A True Story of Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Advocates for
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Service Animal Partners Inc
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ServiceAnimals.info
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Advocacy411 at gmail.com <mailto:Advocacy411 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Office: 386-ASAP411
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hotline: 855-ASAP211
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> <https://mpm5jphbb.cc.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001EwA3wHfZ5QnDL9JT_aC0
> >>>>>>>>> Mf8
> >>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>> 3-saTFkMjDdqoPJOQnPE7uVpgzsomXZxSKbcMTbOM5TvuymLx44KdBBHxd1QJx
> >>>>>>>>> pe4
> >>>>>>>>> 9
> >>>>>>>>> EJ9JT4gHFNxMPIXsDFAzK20lY-XC_Qb9Z9D8DdG3pRWeJH2EIk215fQZQ0GCZD
> >>>>>>>>> Zs3
> >>>>>>>>> g
> >>>>>>>>> Y0xD&c=0fEbX--K6jxKcm12gS8gQjsfejSAVXU1_SQnoDAKh2C_67OhW9XIDw=
> >>>>>>>>> =&c h
> >>>>>>>>> =CCMAxqwVqgGz-gFFX5L2yMFD9qsRHGN6cohq6WR4PGSLgJLuHUwsqA==>
> >>>>>>>>> ASAP Website
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Uber Almost Got Me Killed!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Please circulate the following message as widely as appropriate.
> If you received this message as a forward and would like to receive
> information directly from Advocates for Service Animal Partners, please
> become a partner.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The following article is reprinted with permission of the
> National Federation of the Blind. Sharing this information is encouraged.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Braille Monitor; Vol. 67, No. 9; October 2024.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Gary Wunder, sEditor
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Chris Danielsen, Associate Editor
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Distributed by email, ink-print, in Braille, and on USB flash
> >>>>>>>>> drive, by the National Federation of the Blind
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Mark Riccobono, President
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> telephone: 410-659-9314
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> email address: President at NFB.org <mailto:President at NFB.org>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> website address:
> >>>>>>>>> <https://mpm5jphbb.cc.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001EwA3wHfZ5QnDL9JT_aC0
> >>>>>>>>> Mf8
> >>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>> 3-saTFkMjDdqoPJOQnPE7uVpgzsomfFYWst7x2M5El6CxwcEwzQCQZ_QctAQKt
> >>>>>>>>> qBg
> >>>>>>>>> 5
> >>>>>>>>> HiVK4hY_v9SSB-FIygpG9IA3ksiGrmTpzYvZ7Juareo27OrFdrk9usJaZ9hQ==
> >>>>>>>>> &c=
> >>>>>>>>> 0
> >>>>>>>>> fEbX--K6jxKcm12gS8gQjsfejSAVXU1_SQnoDAKh2C_67OhW9XIDw==&ch=CCM
> >>>>>>>>> Axq w VqgGz-gFFX5L2yMFD9qsRHGN6cohq6WR4PGSLgJLuHUwsqA==>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> From the Associate Editor: This article originally appeared in
> the Summer 2024 issue of the Braille Spectator , the publication of the
> National Federation of the Blind of Maryland. We are reprinting it with
> light edits. Ronza Othman serves as president of that affiliate. She is
> also president of the National Association of Blind Government Employees
> and of the National Association of Blind Lawyers, chairperson of our Code
> of Conduct Feedback Committee, an active member of the Blind Muslims Group,
> and more, all on top of her high-pressure day job with the federal
> government. Despite already having all of these roles, she jokes she is
> eager to assume yet another as the next Disney princess. In a much less
> lighthearted vein, we note that the details in this article may profoundly
> disturb some readers, but we feel it is an important story to tell. It
> highlights not only the continued discrimination experienced by blind
> people at the hands of rideshare drivers but also how Ronza's intersecting
> characteristics and ignorance of disability rights on the part of a member
> of law enforcement escalated an already tense situation to a traumatic, but
> thankfully not tragic, sevent. It is clear from Ronza's experience that
> Uber has not done enough to educate its drivers, or even its customer
> service personnel and supervisors on its policy forbidding discrimination
> against blind passengers with guide dogs. That is why, as this issue of the
> Braille Monitor goes to press, Federationists from across the nation are
> preparing to conduct a rally before the headquarters of both Uber and Lyft,
> the country's two leading rideshare providers.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Here is Ronza's story:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Photo of Ronza Othman standing and wearing a black hijab,
> pullover sweater, and holding her white cane.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Uber Almost Got Me Killed!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> by Ronza Othman
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Discrimination against the blind is an all-too-frequent
> occurrence, but sometimes how companies and law enforcement respond could
> literally get us killed. Uber discriminated against me and a fellow
> passenger who uses a guide dog in July of 2023, and instead of protecting
> me as the law requires, local law enforcement instead held me at gunpoint
> and treated me like I was the criminal. Then, after I didn’t die at the
> hands of the police (probably because my friends were filming the encounter
> on their phones) and filed a report with Uber, Uber summarily kicked me off
> their platform in retaliation for my complaint.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On the first night of the 2023 NFB National Convention in
> Houston, the National Association of Blind Lawyers got together for dinner
> at the home of one of our division board members. We brought along some
> other lawyers, because we tend to travel in packs, including Eve Hill, the
> lawyers’ lawyer and NFB General Counsel. I also brought along three NFB
> National Scholarship finalists, two of whom were going into law. One of the
> students had a guide dog. We had a wonderful dinner, and everyone left in a
> jubilant mood.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I called an Uber to take my group of four bipeds and a quadruped
> back to the hotel around 10:15 p.m.; the driver, Troy, was driving a black
> Mercedes—I’ll never forget that detail. I got into the vehicle first,
> sitting in the middle of the back seat. One of the students and her guide
> dog got in behind the driver. One of the other students got in the
> passenger-side back seat on my other side, and the third sat in the front
> seat.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The driver looked back as we were getting settled and asked, “Is
> that a dog?” I remember thinking something snarky, like “No, it’s a whale.”
> But I didn’t answer, because it wasn’t my service animal.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The student who was the handler said it was a guide dog. The
> driver, Troy, immediately started fussing at us, stating at least twenty
> times that this was a “sixty-thousand-dollar Mercedes.” The student calmly
> responded that her dog was a service animal that was protected under the
> ADA.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Troy began shouting at us to get out of his car. He said that he
> had the right to refuse to take whoever he wanted, and that we had to call
> Uber Pet. We responded that service animals are not pets, and thus we did
> not have to call Uber Pet.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The student with the guide dog and I decided we were not going
> to exit the vehicle because the driver had an obligation to take us under
> the ADA. The driver got out of the vehicle and began shouting in the
> street. This was a quiet neighborhood, fairly upscale, and fairly quickly
> we attracted notice.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, the rest of our friends came out of the house, and
> there was once again a gaggle of lawyers, this time standing on a Houston
> sidewalk nearing midnight. What happened next seems surreal.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As the driver continued to shout about his sixty-thousand-dollar
> Mercedes, both of the students on the passenger side of the vehicle decided
> to leave the car. The student with the guide dog and I decided to stay.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Troy then opened the driver’s side back door, reached into the
> car, and tried to physically yank the guide dog out of the car. The student
> was holding onto the dog’s harness, but when Troy started using his might
> to try to force the dog out of the vehicle, she wrapped her arms around the
> dog to keep her from being pulled away from her. She began to shout at the
> driver to stop pulling on her dog, that he was hurting the dog, and that
> she was a service animal. Troy did not stop for several minutes. The
> student began to slide out of the car herself because Troy was pulling on
> the dog so hard. I wrapped my arms around the student to keep her from
> being pulled out of the car. I believed if Troy was successful at forcing
> the guide dog or the student from the car, they’d both fall on the ground
> and be hurt.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As I held onto the student, Troy started pulling on me too. He
> used so much force that all three of us—the student, the guide dog, and
> I—were all sliding slowly out of the car.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I also started shouting at Troy to stop pulling on us.
> Eventually, he took a break and walked away from the car.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I called 911 to report a physical assault. They took my report
> and told me someone from the Houston Police Department would come soon.
> They did not stay on the phone with me like they show in the movies.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> After I hung up with Emergency Services, I called Uber to file a
> complaint. While I was on the phone with Uber Support, Troy came back and
> did it again. He pulled, using all of his might, on the guide dog and the
> student to force them out of the car. I had my arm around the student’s
> shoulder to comfort her, so he pulled on me too. The Uber customer support
> person on the phone did nothing except take the report.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> After this second assault and battery, the guide dog was very
> agitated, and the student was extremely upset. We didn’t know if the dog
> had been hurt, and if so, how badly. The student decided to get out of the
> car so she could have enough room to check out the dog and catch her
> breath. I stayed in the vehicle, because I knew that if I also got out, the
> driver would just get in the car and leave, resulting in no accountability
> for his actions.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have to pause and give you a quick lesson in the law that you
> might or might not already know. Assault is a crime—it is when someone
> takes an action that places another in imminent fear of a battery. Battery
> means unwanted physical touching. So, Troy both assaulted and battered the
> student and me. To compound the issue, a guide dog, like a cane or
> wheelchair, is, under the law, an extension of the person with a
> disability. That means that if someone intentionally batters a guide dog
> while it is working, then they’ve battered the human handler. When Troy
> grabbed the guide dog and tried to forcibly remove her by pulling her from
> the car, and since the student was holding the harness and then the dog,
> Troy battered and assaulted the dog and the student. Then, when I tried to
> help her by anchoring her and he grabbed and yanked on me, he battered and
> assaulted me too.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> They teach you about assault and battery literally on the first
> day of law school, but as you’ll come to see, somehow two police
> departments and a multi-national company don’t know what it is.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Apparently, in response to the commotion, one of the neighbors
> called their local police department, which resulted in a faster response
> from Harris County law enforcement compared with Houston PD. Two police
> officers from Harris County arrived within twenty minutes of the incident.
> However, they were not there to help! In fact, instead of helping the
> student and me, the clear victims here, they nearly shot me—an unarmed
> brown woman.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> After hanging up with Uber, I called Cayte Mendez, who serves as
> the chair of the Scholarship Committee, to let her know that three
> scholarship finalists and I were in the midst of an Uber denial that turned
> into an assault, for which we were waiting for law enforcement
> intervention. I also asked my lawyer friends standing on the sidewalk to
> call Eve Hill, NFB General Counsel, who by that time had made it back to
> the hotel. Both Cayte and Eve were on the phone with us when the next
> horrible thing happened.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Troy managed to get to the Harris County police officers before
> anyone else, and as best as I can tell, he told them that he was afraid of
> me, that I refused to leave his vehicle after he decided he didn’t feel
> “safe” driving me, and that he believed I may have a weapon. He used
> incorrect and negative stereotypes about brown and Muslim people, and they
> believed him.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Throughout this ordeal, my lawyer friends, including the
> homeowner, were standing on the sidewalk, less than ten feet away from the
> car. When Harris County police pulled up, the homeowner shared with us that
> Harris County provides neighborhood support but that Houston police is the
> entity that handles real crime. He shared that the Harris police provide a
> sort of neighborhood watch function, similar to mall police.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As I sat in the back seat of the vehicle, with the windows open,
> talking to Cayte on the phone, a female police officer slowly walked up to
> the car on the right side. I learned later there was another police officer
> nearby covering her. She shouted at me to put my hands where she could see
> them. She did not identify herself, and I had no idea who she was or that
> she was a cop. I was holding my phone in one hand and the other was empty.
> My cane was telescoped on the floor at my feet. I was the only person left
> in the vehicle.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For a bit of context: I’m brown, Muslim, a woman, and blind. I
> wear a religious head covering called a hijab, which makes me very
> obviously Muslim to the sighted. My family are refugees, and I’m a United
> States citizen. Houston is much more open to immigrants and people of color
> than other places in the southern United States, but I still harbor the
> same anxiety as many immigrants and people of color do when visiting some
> of the southern states. In fact, I carry my US passport in my bra at all
> times for my safety so I can quickly prove I am a citizen.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I dropped the phone—I don’t know if I even said goodbye to Cayte
> or not—and raised my hands. The officer then directed a very strong
> flashlight into my face, which was incredibly startling. Once she saw me
> sitting there, she began to speak very loudly and slowly, as though I
> didn’t comprehend the English language.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As she continued to flash the light into my face, I told her
> that I was blind and needed her to identify herself. She initially did not
> and continued to speak to me in a loud, condescending voice. Eventually,
> she moved the flashlight away from my face, and as I readjusted to the
> lighting, I realized that she was gripping her weapon in her other hand. I
> was being held at gunpoint by Harris County police simply for being blind,
> brown, and Muslim.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> She eventually told me she was Harris County police; I don’t
> know if she ever told me her name or not. She asked me if I had a weapon. I
> told her I did not. She asked me if anything was on the floor of the car. I
> told her, once again, while she held me at gunpoint, that I was blind and
> that my cane was on the floor at my feet. She asked me what else was on the
> floor, and I told her that I did not know because I did not own the vehicle.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> She did not ask me any questions or take my statement before
> deciding I was the threat. I had called 911, but I was now the person with
> a gun on me.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> She told me that since it wasn’t my vehicle, I was trespassing,
> and that the “nice gentleman” had a right to kick anyone he wanted out of
> his car. I told her that my friends and I were Uber passengers, that we had
> disabilities, and that he had a legal obligation to transport us under the
> Americans with Disabilities Act. Meanwhile, I was trying not to panic as
> she still held her weapon on me.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> She ordered me out of the vehicle and told me to keep my hands
> up at all times. I told her once again that I was blind, that I needed my
> cane to safely exit the vehicle, and that I’d like to retrieve it first.
> Initially, she was not going to let me retrieve my cane, but at that point
> her fellow officer walked up and told her that she should let me use it. He
> whispered that everyone around the car had a cane, so I likely wasn’t
> making up my blindness.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> She shone the light on the floor of the vehicle to see that the
> cane was the only item there, and she ordered me to pick it up with one
> hand while the other was still raised. I did so.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> She opened the door, and I slowly exited the vehicle, still
> holding my hands up. I asked if I could retrieve my phone from the car,
> which was on the seat, and the other officer got it and handed it to one of
> my friends.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The female Harris County police officer asked for my name—still
> in that loud, slow tone—and I told it to her. She asked me for my driver’s
> license, and I told her I didn’t drive. She responded, “Undocumented, I
> thought so.” I replied that I had a valid ID, that I was a US citizen, and
> that I didn’t have a driver’s license because I am blind. She ordered me to
> show her my ID.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I began to move my hand toward my passport but quickly realized
> that given how ignorant and suspicious this officer had been thus far,
> moving my hand toward my chest rather than my purse would escalate the
> situation. I verbally talked her through what I was doing. I was wearing a
> very small cross-body purse, small enough to hold only my phone, a thin
> wallet, and my AirPods.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I narrated everything I did before I physically did it. I told
> her I was going to open the flap of my purse using just the thumb and
> forefinger on my right hand. I told her I was going to reach in with those
> same fingers to remove a pink wallet. I told her I was using those same two
> fingers to open the wallet to show her my state ID. I handed over the
> wallet, and she looked at it, then ordered me to remove the ID from the
> wallet and give it to her. At this point, she appeared to me to holster her
> gun, and I gave her my ID. I told her my passport was in my bra and asked
> if she wanted to see it. She responded, “Not yet.”
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As she took my ID from me, one of my friends told her that she
> should Google me while she had my name and information. She ordered me to
> stay put and went off to her vehicle, I assumed to run me through law
> enforcement databases. I collapsed onto the ground, right there, at the
> side of the road. My legs could not hold me up anymore.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> At some point, my friends had begun recording the encounter, but
> I’m not sure exactly when they began recording—I haven’t had the mental
> energy to watch the video. Eve Hill was also on the phone for all or most
> of it. But that wasn’t the end, not by a long shot.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> While I waited to be run through all the law enforcement
> databases, my friends filled me in on what I’d missed, including what they
> heard Troy tell the Harris County officers. They also shared that several
> of them had showed Harris County PD the Uber website that specifically
> states Uber’s nondiscrimination policy and that denying service to service
> animal users violates the law and Uber’s policies. Apparently, that wasn’t
> good enough either.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> We also realized that our host had a video surveillance system
> on his home that likely captured the incident and its aftermath. In fact,
> the camera footage shows the driver yanking on the dog, the student, and me
> both times and much of the Harris County police department’s actions. The
> cell phone recordings my friends took show much of the same with sound.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Eventually, the lady officer from Harris County returned, giving
> me back my ID. She told me again that Troy was just a “nice man” who wanted
> to keep his expensive vehicle clean. I responded that people with
> disabilities are not dirty, and neither are our dogs. I also reiterated
> that the ADA prohibits Uber drivers from refusing service to guide dog
> handlers and others with disabilities. She said that Uber had to handle
> this. I told her I had filed a complaint with Uber, but that since the
> driver assaulted and battered the student and me, this was now a criminal
> issue as well, and that law enforcement was required to enforce the
> anti-discrimination laws. The student and I told her we wanted to press
> charges against the driver. She ordered me to get the person from Uber with
> whom I filed the report on the phone. I told her I’d try, but Uber has a
> lot of customer service people. I called Uber, waited on hold, and
> eventually got connected to a different agent than previously.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I told Uber I was calling because I was with law enforcement who
> wanted to verify I’d called previously to file a report and to ask them
> questions. Initially, the Uber representative informed me that they would
> not talk to law enforcement. The female Harris County officer insisted, so
> I asked for a supervisor. I eventually was transferred to a supervisor, I
> explained the situation, and the supervisor agreed to talk to the police
> officer. This all was on speaker phone, and what happened next was also on
> speaker phone.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The police officer asked if a driver has the right to refuse to
> drive someone if they have a guide dog, and the Uber representative said,
> “Yes, the driver can refuse to drive anyone they wish.” If I hadn’t already
> been sitting on the ground, I’d have fallen over. This is a supposed
> supervisor in the escalation department at Uber, and they don’t even know
> the law or their own policies? We all, including Eve Hill on the phone,
> started shouting that this was not true.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The police officer asked the phone representative from Uber to
> share the policy that gives drivers the right to refuse anyone, which
> frankly stunned me because I didn’t think that Harris County officer was
> capable of getting to actual true facts. The Uber representative put us on
> hold, and after about ten minutes, returned and read from the website that
> my friends had previously shown the officer, which said the exact opposite
> of what the representative had originally said.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> At no time did Harris County take my statement or anyone else’s.
> At no time did they gather evidence or try to figure out what happened.
> They took a cursory look at the dog and said, “She looks fine to me.” They
> told us this was a civil matter and to work through Uber. We reiterated we
> were assaulted and battered and wanted to press charges, and they
> reiterated that we and the dog weren’t physically hurt from their
> perspective, thus this was a civil matter.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> At that point, about two and a half hours after the incident
> began, Houston PD finally showed up. This was a vastly different experience
> from Harris County. The responding Houston PD officers took our individual
> statements, understood that the driver could not refuse services to
> passengers with guide dogs, and treated us with dignity and respect. They
> also told Harris County PD they had it from there and sent the Harris
> County officers away.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> We told them we had recordings and showed them to Houston PD.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Nonetheless, they, too, did not immediately press charges or
> allow us to do so. They informed us that their local prosecutor would
> review the reports and videos and make a determination within a few days.
> They obtained Troy’s contact information and released him. Roughly three
> and a half hours after the ordeal began, we returned to the hotel. A few
> days later, Houston PD informed us that the local prosecutor had declined
> to bring criminal charges against Troy.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, I supplemented my report to Uber to add additional
> details. Three days after Uber nearly got me killed by Harris County PD,
> they kicked me off the Uber platform. Apparently, in an effort to try to
> save his job with Uber, Troy filed a complaint against me, stating I
> threatened him and had a weapon in his vehicle. This was in direct
> retaliation for my complaint against him. Though my supplemental report to
> Uber explained how Troy lied to law enforcement and the effect, Uber still,
> without ever talking to me or doing any sort of investigation, suspended my
> account. This is a gross injustice, because if anyone who complains is
> subject to retaliatory suspension, then every person with a disability who
> tries to protect their rights, as described by the law and Uber’s own
> policy, will be removed from the platform simply for exercising their
> rights.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I shared what had happened with President Riccobono, and he
> contacted Uber himself. Uber executives were at the convention, and
> President Riccobono arranged a meeting for those executives, John Paré, the
> scholarship finalists and me. Uber made a lot of promises and commitments,
> but more than a year later, I’ve not seen any of them come to fruition.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I filed two complaints with the [United States] Department of
> Justice (DOJ) about this experience—one against Harris County Police, and
> the other against Uber. DOJ closed the complaint against Harris County
> Police with no action. I have not yet heard any information about the Uber
> complaint.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What happened to my companions and me isn’t rare. There isn’t a
> week that goes by that I don’t hear from someone about a rideshare denial
> because of their guide dog or long white cane. These denials mean that
> blind people are late for work, medical appointments, worship services, and
> so on. The fact that Uber personnel didn’t know the law, or their own
> policies is unforgivable. The fact that law enforcement doesn’t know the
> law is disgusting and terrifying.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Advocates for Service Animal Partners | 1003 Papaya Drive |
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