[NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

Tue Oct 22 14:15:31 UTC 2024

We have been adamant, and Uber has assured us, that those who do not 
participate in SelfID will not be any worse off  than they are now 
regarding reports of denials. Obviously we feel that how things are now 
is pretty bad, but we hope that denials will be reduced when drivers 
actually face consequences as a result of SelfID.

Please educate me on what past similar systems you are referring to, as 
well as the mixed results. I’m not aware of them. Thank you.

On 21 Oct 2024, at 12:40, Jenine Stanley wrote:

> I’ll echo my thanks to Al and everyone working on this system.
>
> My main concern is that denials of people who have not self identified 
> will be ignored. I believe this isn’t Uber’s motive for offering 
> self identification but we’ve experienced these types of systems in 
> the past with mixed results.
>
>
>> On Oct 21, 2024, at 11:37 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Al.
>> I really appreciate the work you are doing.
>> I have had drivers deny me a ride, and then not cancel, or cancel 
>> after 5-10 minutes, and I can't get Uber to assign me someone else 
>> until the driver cancels.  I know they can't get another passenger 
>> then either, but some of them don't seem to care.
>> Any thoughts about that, and how the self-ID wouldn't encourage such 
>> behavior?
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 11:24 AM
>> To: Margo Downey <margo.downey at roadrunner.com>
>> Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National 
>> Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber
>>
>> Fellow NAGDU members:
>>
>> I cannot speak to the blind/deaf SelfID options Uber publicly 
>> announced two weeks ago, and how they will work/benefit us as riders. 
>> That is because we spoke with Uber last week after the rally and the 
>> entire call was taken up with  discussing the SelfID for service 
>> animal users that Uber has not yet announced for  the general public. 
>> What I can say about the Service animal Self ID is that, as currently 
>> implemented internally, if a driver cancels a ride after being 
>> informed that a match rider has a service animal, they will be 
>> reminded that  Uber policy and the law require them to transport 
>> service animals, and that if they continue to cancel their account 
>> may be suspended or permanently deactivated. If they continue to 
>> cancel, the rider will be asked in the app if they would like to file 
>> a complaint, and the relevant information will automatically be sent 
>> to Uber with one click. Uber has said that the warning about 
>> cancellations due to service animals and the drivers continuing 
>> anyway will provide them with the information they need to establish 
>> a knowing refusal.
>>
>> Raul and I, along with some other members of the service animal using
>> community,   will be participating in a pilot of the service animal
>> SelfID system over the next six to seven weeks. During that pilot we 
>> will be providing feedback to Uber on how the system seems to be 
>> working, how we suggest it be changed to perform better before 
>> general release, etc. Among the things we and Uber will be testing is 
>> when the notification to the driver is most effective, such as 
>> whether the driver should be notified immediately after matching, 
>> shortly after matching in case they have a legitimate 
>> non-discriminatory reason to cancel (such as they had the system on 
>> auto-match and they want to go home, take a break, etc.), or shortly 
>> before arriving at the pickup location. There may be preferences in 
>> the app to choose which option the rider prefers once the feature is 
>> released to the public.
>>
>> Uber has also indicated that there may also be a “identify to Uber 
>> but not drivers” option that will allow riders to benefit from the 
>> streamlined one-click denial reporting feature without fully opting 
>> into the system to identify service animal using riders to drivers.
>>
>> At any rate, the SelfID blind/deaf feature Uber announced two weeks 
>> ago is not the service animal selfID feature. Hopefully we will have 
>> more to report on the service animal SelfID feature before the end of 
>> the year.
>> In the meantime, we will seek additional information on the 
>> blind/deaf rider SelfID system they already announced to determine 
>> what, if any, benefits it offers and how.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> /Æ
>>
>>
>> On 20 Oct 2024, at 22:17, Margo Downey wrote:
>>
>>> Well, you know, I think these options Uber is supposedly giving us 
>>> are
>>> token options to make them feel good about themselves.
>>>
>>> I haven't heard what disciplinary actions, if necessary, will happen
>>> due to drivers' lack of good service and breaking laws.
>>>
>>> I am not impressed.
>>>
>>> I am impressed by the people who organized and attended the rally in
>>> San Francisco. I am so glad the NFB had this rally and that we've
>>> gotten media coverage. I still have doubts, though, about what the
>>> future will bring.
>>>
>>> Margo and Tami
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie A.
>>> Orozco via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 10:14 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>> Users'
>>> Cc: Julie A. Orozco
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber
>>>
>>> Sorry to bring this back.
>>>
>>> But it was my understanding that what we wanted was slightly 
>>> different
>>> than what we got. I thought we wanted a self-identification system
>>> that would also result in automatic penalties for drivers who denied
>>> us. In other words, if we chose to identify as a rider with a 
>>> service
>>> animal and the driver canceled on us, their account would
>>> automatically be suspended. I don't see anything about driver
>>> punishment/accountability in these announcements.
>>>
>>> I am strongly against even trying out an identification system like
>>> this because it defies the spirit of the laws that drivers violate 
>>> all
>>> the time. It also won't work without some kind of "stick," something
>>> that will actually hold drivers accountable. I understand our 
>>> options
>>> are limited. I'm also so grateful we were able to protest at
>>> headquarters. But this self-identification system seems, by all
>>> accounts, to be a win for Uber and their drivers without any kind of
>>> reward for us.
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm missing something or don't have the whole story. That's
>>> always a possibility. I'm just very worried that our people will buy
>>> into this and things will get worse before they have a hope of 
>>> getting
>>> better.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via 
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2024 10:11 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber
>>>
>>> Everyone – we have been advocating for optional SelfID. I agree 
>>> that
>>> Uber’s last-minute publicizing of a diminished SelfID has no 
>>> bearing
>>> on our rally or our demands, but I will repost (or you can search 
>>> the
>>> archives for) my explanations of how we demanded SelfID work, as 
>>> well
>>> as why we think it will improve our lives as rideshare riders even 
>>> if
>>> some of us do not opt-in.
>>>
>>> Now I must go to the rally.
>>>
>>> /Æ
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40road
>>> runner.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40icloud.com