[NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

Tue Oct 22 15:32:30 UTC 2024

Yeah – I am signed up for when I use Lyft, but my experience in NYC is 
a much higher denial rate on Lyft than Uber, so I typiclly use Uber.

On 22 Oct 2024, at 11:11, kevan nfbco.org wrote:

> Thanks Al. Thanks, team. I know some folks who are signing up. I am 
> 95% Lyft. I decided to go mostly Lyft because of our National 
> Federation of the Blind, "Lyft Up" program." So, they automatically 
> round up my spend on a ride to the next dollar and that difference is 
> donated to our organization, for those of you who use Lyft. Please 
> consider signing up. It's easy and we are one of the very few 
> charities on the list. You can find the list on the app very easily.
>
>
> At your service,
> Kevan Worley
> 303-929-2369
> Manager Project Literacy, National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
> The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and 
> friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation’s blind. 
> Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they 
> want.
> Colorado Center for the Blind believes when you believe in yourself 
> and experience a thriving community of positive blind people, nothing 
> can hold you back from pursuing your dreams.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 8:16 AM
> To: Jenine Stanley <jeninems at icloud.com>
> Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National 
> Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber
>
> We have been adamant, and Uber has assured us, that those who do not 
> participate in SelfID will not be any worse off  than they are now 
> regarding reports of denials. Obviously we feel that how things are 
> now is pretty bad, but we hope that denials will be reduced when 
> drivers actually face consequences as a result of SelfID.
>
> Please educate me on what past similar systems you are referring to, 
> as well as the mixed results. I’m not aware of them. Thank you.
>
>
>
> On 21 Oct 2024, at 12:40, Jenine Stanley wrote:
>
>> I’ll echo my thanks to Al and everyone working on this system.
>>
>> My main concern is that denials of people who have not self 
>> identified
>> will be ignored. I believe this isn’t Uber’s motive for offering
>> self identification but we’ve experienced these types of systems in
>> the past with mixed results.
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2024, at 11:37 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Al.
>>> I really appreciate the work you are doing.
>>> I have had drivers deny me a ride, and then not cancel, or cancel
>>> after 5-10 minutes, and I can't get Uber to assign me someone else
>>> until the driver cancels.  I know they can't get another passenger
>>> then either, but some of them don't seem to care.
>>> Any thoughts about that, and how the self-ID wouldn't encourage such
>>> behavior?
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via 
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 11:24 AM
>>> To: Margo Downey <margo.downey at roadrunner.com>
>>> Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber
>>>
>>> Fellow NAGDU members:
>>>
>>> I cannot speak to the blind/deaf SelfID options Uber publicly
>>> announced two weeks ago, and how they will work/benefit us as 
>>> riders.
>>> That is because we spoke with Uber last week after the rally and the
>>> entire call was taken up with  discussing the SelfID for service
>>> animal users that Uber has not yet announced for  the general 
>>> public.
>>> What I can say about the Service animal Self ID is that, as 
>>> currently
>>> implemented internally, if a driver cancels a ride after being
>>> informed that a match rider has a service animal, they will be
>>> reminded that  Uber policy and the law require them to transport
>>> service animals, and that if they continue to cancel their account
>>> may be suspended or permanently deactivated. If they continue to
>>> cancel, the rider will be asked in the app if they would like to 
>>> file
>>> a complaint, and the relevant information will automatically be sent
>>> to Uber with one click. Uber has said that the warning about
>>> cancellations due to service animals and the drivers continuing
>>> anyway will provide them with the information they need to establish
>>> a knowing refusal.
>>>
>>> Raul and I, along with some other members of the service animal 
>>> using
>>> community,   will be participating in a pilot of the service animal
>>> SelfID system over the next six to seven weeks. During that pilot we
>>> will be providing feedback to Uber on how the system seems to be
>>> working, how we suggest it be changed to perform better before
>>> general release, etc. Among the things we and Uber will be testing 
>>> is
>>> when the notification to the driver is most effective, such as
>>> whether the driver should be notified immediately after matching,
>>> shortly after matching in case they have a legitimate
>>> non-discriminatory reason to cancel (such as they had the system on
>>> auto-match and they want to go home, take a break, etc.), or shortly
>>> before arriving at the pickup location. There may be preferences in
>>> the app to choose which option the rider prefers once the feature is
>>> released to the public.
>>>
>>> Uber has also indicated that there may also be a “identify to Uber
>>> but not drivers” option that will allow riders to benefit from the
>>> streamlined one-click denial reporting feature without fully opting
>>> into the system to identify service animal using riders to drivers.
>>>
>>> At any rate, the SelfID blind/deaf feature Uber announced two weeks
>>> ago is not the service animal selfID feature. Hopefully we will have
>>> more to report on the service animal SelfID feature before the end 
>>> of
>>> the year.
>>> In the meantime, we will seek additional information on the
>>> blind/deaf rider SelfID system they already announced to determine
>>> what, if any, benefits it offers and how.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> /Æ
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 Oct 2024, at 22:17, Margo Downey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, you know, I think these options Uber is supposedly giving us
>>>> are
>>>> token options to make them feel good about themselves.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't heard what disciplinary actions, if necessary, will 
>>>> happen
>>>> due to drivers' lack of good service and breaking laws.
>>>>
>>>> I am not impressed.
>>>>
>>>> I am impressed by the people who organized and attended the rally 
>>>> in
>>>> San Francisco. I am so glad the NFB had this rally and that we've
>>>> gotten media coverage. I still have doubts, though, about what the
>>>> future will bring.
>>>>
>>>> Margo and Tami
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie A.
>>>> Orozco via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 10:14 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users'
>>>> Cc: Julie A. Orozco
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to bring this back.
>>>>
>>>> But it was my understanding that what we wanted was slightly
>>>> different
>>>> than what we got. I thought we wanted a self-identification system
>>>> that would also result in automatic penalties for drivers who 
>>>> denied
>>>> us. In other words, if we chose to identify as a rider with a
>>>> service
>>>> animal and the driver canceled on us, their account would
>>>> automatically be suspended. I don't see anything about driver
>>>> punishment/accountability in these announcements.
>>>>
>>>> I am strongly against even trying out an identification system like
>>>> this because it defies the spirit of the laws that drivers violate
>>>> all
>>>> the time. It also won't work without some kind of "stick," 
>>>> something
>>>> that will actually hold drivers accountable. I understand our
>>>> options
>>>> are limited. I'm also so grateful we were able to protest at
>>>> headquarters. But this self-identification system seems, by all
>>>> accounts, to be a win for Uber and their drivers without any kind 
>>>> of
>>>> reward for us.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I'm missing something or don't have the whole story. That's
>>>> always a possibility. I'm just very worried that our people will 
>>>> buy
>>>> into this and things will get worse before they have a hope of
>>>> getting
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via
>>>> NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2024 10:11 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber
>>>>
>>>> Everyone – we have been advocating for optional SelfID. I agree
>>>> that
>>>> Uber’s last-minute publicizing of a diminished SelfID has no
>>>> bearing
>>>> on our rally or our demands, but I will repost (or you can search
>>>> the
>>>> archives for) my explanations of how we demanded SelfID work, as
>>>> well
>>>> as why we think it will improve our lives as rideshare riders even
>>>> if
>>>> some of us do not opt-in.
>>>>
>>>> Now I must go to the rally.
>>>>
>>>> /Æ
>>>>
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>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
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