[NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

Tue Oct 22 15:46:03 UTC 2024

This stuff really seems to me to vary by region with each company, though I can't prove it.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of kevan nfbco.org via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 11:42 AM
To: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>
Cc: kevan nfbco.org <kevan at nfbco.org>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

That’s interesting. I find the opposite where I live here in Colorado Springs. Of course, our metro area is about 900,000. I rarely get turned down on Lyft. I'd say once a year. And I find Lyft a bit better in terms of turndowns in Denver as well. Of course, that gets to be pretty anecdotal.

Keep up the good work.

At your service,
Kevan Worley
303-929-2369
Manager Project Literacy, National Federation of the Blind of Colorado The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation’s blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want.
Colorado Center for the Blind believes when you believe in yourself and experience a thriving community of positive blind people, nothing can hold you back from pursuing your dreams.

From: Al Elia <al.elia at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 9:33 AM
To: kevan nfbco.org <kevan at nfbco.org>
Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; Jenine Stanley <jeninems at icloud.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

Yeah – I am signed up for when I use Lyft, but my experience in NYC is a much higher denial rate on Lyft than Uber, so I typiclly use Uber.

On 22 Oct 2024, at 11:11, kevan nfbco.org wrote:

Thanks Al. Thanks, team. I know some folks who are signing up. I am 95% Lyft. I decided to go mostly Lyft because of our National Federation of the Blind, "Lyft Up" program." So, they automatically round up my spend on a ride to the next dollar and that difference is donated to our organization, for those of you who use Lyft. Please consider signing up. It's easy and we are one of the very few charities on the list. You can find the list on the app very easily.

At your service,
Kevan Worley
303-929-2369
Manager Project Literacy, National Federation of the Blind of Colorado The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation’s blind. Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they want.
Colorado Center for the Blind believes when you believe in yourself and experience a thriving community of positive blind people, nothing can hold you back from pursuing your dreams.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2024 8:16 AM
To: Jenine Stanley jeninems at icloud.com<mailto:jeninems at icloud.com>
Cc: Al Elia al.elia at aol.com<mailto:al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

We have been adamant, and Uber has assured us, that those who do not participate in SelfID will not be any worse off than they are now regarding reports of denials. Obviously we feel that how things are now is pretty bad, but we hope that denials will be reduced when drivers actually face consequences as a result of SelfID.

Please educate me on what past similar systems you are referring to, as well as the mixed results. I’m not aware of them. Thank you.

On 21 Oct 2024, at 12:40, Jenine Stanley wrote:

I’ll echo my thanks to Al and everyone working on this system.

My main concern is that denials of people who have not self identified will be ignored. I believe this isn’t Uber’s motive for offering self identification but we’ve experienced these types of systems in the past with mixed results.

On Oct 21, 2024, at 11:37 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hi Al.
I really appreciate the work you are doing.
I have had drivers deny me a ride, and then not cancel, or cancel after 5-10 minutes, and I can't get Uber to assign me someone else until the driver cancels. I know they can't get another passenger then either, but some of them don't seem to care.
Any thoughts about that, and how the self-ID wouldn't encourage such behavior?
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2024 11:24 AM
To: Margo Downey margo.downey at roadrunner.com<mailto:margo.downey at roadrunner.com>
Cc: Al Elia al.elia at aol.com<mailto:al.elia at aol.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

Fellow NAGDU members:

I cannot speak to the blind/deaf SelfID options Uber publicly announced two weeks ago, and how they will work/benefit us as riders.
That is because we spoke with Uber last week after the rally and the entire call was taken up with discussing the SelfID for service animal users that Uber has not yet announced for the general public.
What I can say about the Service animal Self ID is that, as currently implemented internally, if a driver cancels a ride after being informed that a match rider has a service animal, they will be reminded that Uber policy and the law require them to transport service animals, and that if they continue to cancel their account may be suspended or permanently deactivated. If they continue to cancel, the rider will be asked in the app if they would like to file a complaint, and the relevant information will automatically be sent to Uber with one click. Uber has said that the warning about cancellations due to service animals and the drivers continuing anyway will provide them with the information they need to establish a knowing refusal.

Raul and I, along with some other members of the service animal using community, will be participating in a pilot of the service animal SelfID system over the next six to seven weeks. During that pilot we will be providing feedback to Uber on how the system seems to be working, how we suggest it be changed to perform better before general release, etc. Among the things we and Uber will be testing is when the notification to the driver is most effective, such as whether the driver should be notified immediately after matching, shortly after matching in case they have a legitimate non-discriminatory reason to cancel (such as they had the system on auto-match and they want to go home, take a break, etc.), or shortly before arriving at the pickup location. There may be preferences in the app to choose which option the rider prefers once the feature is released to the public.

Uber has also indicated that there may also be a “identify to Uber but not drivers” option that will allow riders to benefit from the streamlined one-click denial reporting feature without fully opting into the system to identify service animal using riders to drivers.

At any rate, the SelfID blind/deaf feature Uber announced two weeks ago is not the service animal selfID feature. Hopefully we will have more to report on the service animal SelfID feature before the end of the year.
In the meantime, we will seek additional information on the blind/deaf rider SelfID system they already announced to determine what, if any, benefits it offers and how.

Yours,

/Æ

On 20 Oct 2024, at 22:17, Margo Downey wrote:

Well, you know, I think these options Uber is supposedly giving us are token options to make them feel good about themselves.

I haven't heard what disciplinary actions, if necessary, will happen due to drivers' lack of good service and breaking laws.

I am not impressed.

I am impressed by the people who organized and attended the rally in San Francisco. I am so glad the NFB had this rally and that we've gotten media coverage. I still have doubts, though, about what the future will bring.

Margo and Tami

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie A.
Orozco via NAGDU
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 10:14 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Julie A. Orozco
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

Sorry to bring this back.

But it was my understanding that what we wanted was slightly different than what we got. I thought we wanted a self-identification system that would also result in automatic penalties for drivers who denied us. In other words, if we chose to identify as a rider with a service animal and the driver canceled on us, their account would automatically be suspended. I don't see anything about driver punishment/accountability in these announcements.

I am strongly against even trying out an identification system like this because it defies the spirit of the laws that drivers violate all the time. It also won't work without some kind of "stick," something that will actually hold drivers accountable. I understand our options are limited. I'm also so grateful we were able to protest at headquarters. But this self-identification system seems, by all accounts, to be a win for Uber and their drivers without any kind of reward for us.

Maybe I'm missing something or don't have the whole story. That's always a possibility. I'm just very worried that our people will buy into this and things will get worse before they have a hope of getting better.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Elia via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2024 10:11 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Al Elia al.elia at aol.com<mailto:al.elia at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New options for personal disclosure with Uber

Everyone – we have been advocating for optional SelfID. I agree that Uber’s last-minute publicizing of a diminished SelfID has no bearing on our rally or our demands, but I will repost (or you can search the archives for) my explanations of how we demanded SelfID work, as well as why we think it will improve our lives as rideshare riders even if some of us do not opt-in.

Now I must go to the rally.

/Æ

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