<html><body><font face="Helvetica">Thanks Julie, I will look in to. It. O&M training isn't the only thing holding me back, I maybe can get time off for a two week program. There aren't many schools that offer that for me. <br><br>Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App<br><br><br>------ Original Message ------<br><br>From: Julie J.<br>To: barbandzoe@comcast.net, NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users<br>Sent: July 23, 2014 at 12:47 PM<br>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program inorder to get a guide dog<br><br>Barb,<br><br>There's the Accelerated Mobility Program through Leader Dogs right there in <br>Minnesota. It's a one week intensive long white cane mobility course. I <br>would think that it would fulfill the requirement for formal cane travel <br>training you are needing. You aren't obligated to get a guide dog through <br>Leader after completing their cane mobility program.<br><br>If you want to owner train and feel that is the best fit for you, then by <br>all means go for it. However, I think if you choose owner training out of a <br>place of frustration and despair, it's going to be problematic. I've owner <br>trained three dogs and I'm telling you, it isn't easy. I don't mean the <br>actual working with the dog, I mean the mental and emotional toll is high. <br>You will be pushed to your limit, repeatedly. You will have to advocate for <br>yourself every step of the way. People who you thought would support you <br>will disappear. You have to train the dog every, single day, no matter how <br>tired you are or how bad work sucked that day or how many feet of snow is on <br>the ground.<br><br>You can also get hurt. I mean physically injured. You need good <br>orientation skills, good cane skills, a good knowledge of your area or some <br>way of knowing how to help your dog learn to navigate the environment. In <br>the beginning the dog won't know what to do and then there'll be a squirrel <br>and before you know it, you're being taken on a joy ride through the park. <br>You have to be able to figure out what happened, how to work the dog through <br>it, how to correct the behavior in future and most immediately how to get <br>yourself safely out of the situation That's physically demanding, but <br>probably more so it's mentally and emotionally exhausting.<br><br>There were days, actually quite a lot of days, where I would come home from <br>a work out with Monty and I would just sit on the couch and stare at the <br>wall for half an hour because it was all so overwhelming. I would get so <br>embarrassed by his horrid behavior that I swore off leaving the house ever <br>again. I got over it, of course, but I'm not kidding when I say that I <br>learned humility.<br><br>I'm here if you ever want to talk. I want you to be successful in whatever <br>you choose. I do want you to understand that owner training isn't easy. It <br>is one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but it's also one of the <br>most rewarding.<br><br>Julie<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- <br>From: Barb breuer via nagdu<br>Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:01 AM<br>To: Cindy Ray ; Name, Full<br>Cc: Julie J.<br>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program inorder <br>to get a guide dog<br><br><br>I have been looking into going to a school, I found only two that have the <br>two week program for first time dog owners. And I live in Minnesota so <br>Freedom will not work with me, I called them.<br>I have had no formal O&M training. If I want training, and I want to get my <br>state organization to pay for it, I need to combine it with other kinds of <br>training, school, job stills. witch I have done through them and I don't <br>think they are going to help me go to school unless i have a really good <br>career idea. So I am on my own for the training.<br>So the schools want O&M training, I had a trainer fill out the paper that <br>said I could travel, but the schools want the training.<br><br>I am really thinking that if I want a guide dog I will have to train one <br>myself.<br>barb<br><br>----- Original Message -----<br><br>From: "Name, Full" <nagdu@nfbnet.org><br>To: "Julie J." <julielj@neb.rr.com>, "Name, Full" <nagdu@nfbnet.org><br>Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:37:31 AM<br>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program in order <br>to get a guide dog<br><br>Julie, I always love your well-thought out responses. The things you have <br>listed are probably the reasons I would not see myself doing the owner <br>training thing, though I love the idea of the completed project. Who wouldn’t? <br>But one thing you didn’t mention is how far ahead you have to be looking, <br>how far into the future should you be training your own dog. My dog is <br>eight. He probably is fine now, and when it is time for him to retire, I can <br>apply to the school for another. Since I’ve been there already, I usually <br>don’t have to wait a really long time for a replacement. If I am training my <br>own dog, I should probably have already started that process as you have <br>with Monty, and I don’t know if I’m spelling that right. It almost seems to <br>me as if, with the exception of maybe a year or two, one would almost always <br>be training a dog.<br><br>Cindy<br><br>On Jul 23, 2014, at 7:28 AM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu@nfbnet.org> wrote:<br><br>> I agree with Tami. the customization and flexibility is the main <br>> difference. Well, other than the obvious, an owner trained dog is trained <br>> by the owner and a program trained dog is trained by a program trainer.<br>><br>> As an owner trainer, I have the flexibility to use the training methods <br>> that I prefer. I can feed the food I choose. I can vaccinate and provide <br>> health care that I feel is best for my dog. I can use equipment that I <br>> choose. And I can choose the specific skills to train my dog, which are <br>> most meaningful to me. For example my current guide is not trained for <br>> escalators because there isn't a single escalator in the town where we <br>> live. It doesn't make sense to spend a lot of time on that skill when I <br>> won't be using it. However he is quite skilled at sidewalkless travel and <br>> targeting locations of interest across large open spaces because those are <br>> skills I need and use frequently.<br>><br>> With a dog from a program you get training that is a little bit of <br>> everything so it will fit the widest possible range of possible handlers. <br>> Nothing wrong with that and certainly that training can be customized when <br>> you get home or you can make your needs known to the program so they can <br>> do a bit more advanced training with you while your there on the things <br>> you'll be using most often. Still, it's like Rebecca's house analogy. If <br>> you purchase an existing house, you can do some remodeling, paint or put <br>> in new carpet, but the main structure and foundation remains. With an <br>> owner trained dog/a custom built home, you design every element exactly as <br>> you like all the way through the process.<br>><br>> The trade off is a load of time, effort and resources. Training your own <br>> dog takes an incredible amount of work. You won't be doing much in the way <br>> of fun, career advancement, family expansion or personal projects while <br>> you are training a guide dog. It requires daily effort in the way of daily <br>> training sessions at home, on the streets and eventually in public places. <br>> You have to think ahead to what the dog is ready for, what skills are <br>> needed, how to teach them, what to do when plan A doesn't work, who to <br>> call for help, and assessing your progress honestly. You will need a lot <br>> of resources to be able to owner train your own guide. It costs money. It <br>> doesn't seem like a lot to me from month to month, but it most certainly <br>> does add up. However because you aren't spending a whole lot of time on <br>> frivolous entertainment, perhaps it all averages out? I'd still plan on a <br>> couple thousand dollars to cover expenses. You also need some people to <br>> help you. I don't mean to help you train the dog. that would be kind of <br>> nice, but it isn't called owner training for nothing. Even if you do find <br>> a trainer to assist you, it is still you making all the decisions about <br>> what training to be doing. Mostly though, I mean you need people to give <br>> you some honest feedback about your dog. Sometimes you will be so <br>> enthralled with the process you will miss the forest because the trees get <br>> in the way. Having someone watch you with the dog and providing feedback <br>> helps incredibly. the person doesn't have to be super educated about guide <br>> dogs. You'll be able to sift through their comments and sort what is a <br>> legitimate concern with what is lack of understanding about guides. <br>> Perhaps the most important thing you need from your people is support. <br>> Owner training is incredibly mentally and emotionally taxing. You need <br>> people to reassure you that you aren't nutters, yes, I can guarantee there <br>> will come a day when you question your sanity. You need people to talk to <br>> when things get tough and you need to do some problem solving. You also <br>> need people who will give you a high five when things are awesome, people <br>> who will celebrate with you.<br>><br>> Julie<br>><br>><br>> -----Original Message----- From: Tami Jarvis via nagdu<br>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:49 PM<br>> To: helga.schreiber26@gmail.com ; NAGDU Mailing List,the National <br>> Association of Guide Dog Users<br>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program in <br>> order to get a guide dog<br>><br>> Helga,<br>><br>> Not a silly question at all! The difference between the owner-trained<br>> dog and the program-trained dog once the training is completed is that<br>> the owner-trained dog is likely to be more customized to the handler. A<br>> program-trained dog can be customized to some degree once it goes home<br>> with its new handler, depending on the skill of the handler and the<br>> wishes of the program.<br>><br>> The differences in the process of ending up with a working guide are<br>> more profound. To get a program guide, you have to fill out a bunch of<br>> forms and jump through some hoops, wait to hear if and when you'll get<br>> the dog, then go get it. More or less. Most programs will provide<br>> transportation to their facility, room and board, and instruction in how<br>> to use a guide dog and to handle your new dog in particular. Most will<br>> send you home with a starter kit including grooming supplies, toys,<br>> working gear, and even dog food. Follow up may include vet expenses, as<br>> well as answers to questions or further training for you or your dog if<br>> you need it to develop into a strong working team. You will start out<br>> with an adult dog, raised specifically for the job, with a good set of<br>> house manners, good social etiquette and task training. That's a very<br>> generalized overview, of course. /smile/<br>><br>> To owner-train, you first have to find the right dog. This can take some<br>> time, a lot of research, more time, more research, and often evaluating<br>> a number of candidates before finding the right one. You may decide to<br>> start with a puppy, so you have total control of its rearing, which<br>> means you will be busy for about 2 years (depending on how fast your dog<br>> learns and matures). Or you can get an older pup, which has pros and<br>> cons. Getting your hands on a dog that is closer to adulthood will get<br>> you a guide dog faster, but you have to watch out for emotional baggage.<br>><br>> You will need to then train the dog, which means every day, building the<br>> skills for the job and the manners for public access. Some phases of<br>> training are relatively dangerous, so you need to be aware and figure<br>> out how to teach the dog to be safe without getting hurt in the process.<br>> You will be buying your own gear, kibble, grooming equipment, paying all<br>> vet expenses, stuff like that. At some point, you'll need to transition<br>> from trainer to handler, which can be interesting. All along the way,<br>> you need to be able to evaluate your dog for fitness and be ready to<br>> wash it out if necessary. You will need to learn the laws thoroughly and<br>> be ready and able to self-advocate.<br>><br>> The reasons people choose to owner-train instead of getting a guide from<br>> a program vary. For myself, I can think of various and sundry items on<br>> my list of reasons why, but when it comes down to it, I think I do it<br>> because I want to. Also, I love training and the challenges and chills<br>> and thrills and, well, all of it. /smile/<br>><br>> Again, that's a quick and dirty overview, very generalized.<br>><br>> Tami<br>><br>><br>><br>> On 07/22/2014 07:58 PM, Helga via nagdu wrote:<br>>> Hi all! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, what is the difference <br>>> between a owner trained and a guide dog school program in order to get a <br>>> guide dog? I’m just wondring since I’m plannin to get a guide dog next <br>>> year! Sorry for asking this silly question!, which I’m suppose to know! <br>>> the answer for! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless!<br>>> Helga Schreiber<br>>><br>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter<br>>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of <br>>> Blind Students<br>>> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT)<br>>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research<br>>><br>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950<br>>> Email: helga.schreiber26@gmail.com<br>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26<br>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx<br>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/<br>>><br>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that <br>>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John <br>>> 3:16<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> nagdu mailing list<br>>> nagdu@nfbnet.org<br>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<br>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for <br>>> nagdu:<br>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com<br>>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> nagdu mailing list<br>> nagdu@nfbnet.org<br>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<br>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for <br>> nagdu:<br>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com<br>><br>><br>> ----- <br>> No virus found in this message.<br>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br>> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3955/7398 - Release Date: 07/22/14<br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> nagdu mailing list<br>> nagdu@nfbnet.org<br>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<br>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for <br>> nagdu:<br>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>nagdu mailing list<br>nagdu@nfbnet.org<br>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<br>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:<br>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/barbandzoe%40comcast.net<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>nagdu mailing list<br>nagdu@nfbnet.org<br>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<br>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:<br>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com<br><br><br>-----<br>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br>Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3955/7398 - Release Date: 07/22/14 <br><br></font></body></html>