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<body><div style="font-family: sans-serif;"><div class="plaintext" style="white-space: normal;"><p dir="auto">JAnine \u2013 do you have any suggestions as to how a private company is supposed to lawfully produce media that addresses cultural biases that other cultures ahve against people with disabilities? Keep in mind that our laws also protect against discrimination based on national origin, so companies would have to produce largely the same media in all languages, and not target drivers based on their background or language. Imagine how the community would react to companies messaging drivers that while they may have been brought up to believe that people with disabilities must be protected from themselves and always accompanied by a family member, the laws protect their right to live independently, and that sometimes they do that by using a helper animal called a service animal. Everyone would pile on the company for that messaging: Disability advocates and progressives would cry foul at the notion that the company was paying even lip-service to regressive ideas , while disability advocates and conservatives would berate the companies for coddling beliefes that go against the law.</p>
<p dir="auto">For better or worse, we delegate lawmaking to lawmakers. We then require people to comply with the law. One of the first things we learned in law school was that ignorance of the law is no excuse. That rule is one of the reasons why laws and regulations must be publicly available, so that no one can claim that they had no notice of a law they are accused of breaking. The rideshare companies are providing additional notice to drivers that they must not only comply with the law generally, but that they must specifically comply with the specific laws protecting our right to travel with a service animal. They are doing that in the languages that the drivers are most commonly using to ensure that the drivers cannot claim a lack of notice. There is no cultural issue I am aware of regarding obligations of contracts or violations of tcontractual terms. If a driver agreees to those terms, and then doesn\u2019t so comply, they should swiftly be removed from the platforms, not be educated based on cultural differences before or after the fact.</p>
<p dir="auto">I suggest that the best way to address a cultures bias against people with disabilities is to take a hard stance against that bias. We don\u2019t attempt to address other cultural biases with gentle education. We would not attempt to educate a white contractor who refused to hire or do business with non-white people by telling them that, notwithstanding the beliefs they may have regarding the work ethics or trustworthiness of non-white people, they can\u2019t rfuse to hire or do business with them. In fact, if we did, we would ourselves be guilty of perpetuating those discriminatory beliefs. The same goes for cultural biases against us as people with disabilities.</p>
<p dir="auto">That said, if you have ideas for how to address cultural biases in a manner that does not discriminate based on national origin and does not perpetuate discrimination against us, I welcome discussion of those ideas.</p>
<p dir="auto">Yours,</p>
<p dir="auto">/Æ</p>
<br><br><br><p dir="auto">On 9 Apr 2025, at 16:39, Jenine Stanley wrote:</p>
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That\u2019s great that the notification is in different languages but that doesn\u2019t address people\u2019s culture. If people with disabilities are never seen and have no agency in their culture, how can we expect them to recognize the phrase \u201cservice animal\u201d?
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<div>I\u2019ll say it again, not making excuses for denials. Just trying to give some advocacy ideas because the current scheme isn\u2019t working as well as we thought or it should. </div>
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<div>On Apr 9, 2025, at 4:18\u202fPM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU <nagdu@nfbnet.org> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NAGDU <<a href="mailto:nagdu-bounces@nfbnet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">nagdu-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Leslie Hamric via NAGDU<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, April 9, 2025 4:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:nagdu@nfbnet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">nagdu@nfbnet.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Leslie Hamric <<a href="mailto:lhamric930@comcast.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">lhamric930@comcast.net</a>>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:nagdu@nfbnet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">nagdu@nfbnet.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">According to Brianna, the service animal notification has been translated into the 10 most spoken languages.</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">On Apr 9, 2025, at 12:33<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">\u202f</span>PM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU <<a href="mailto:nagdu@nfbnet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">nagdu@nfbnet.org</a>> wrote:</p>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">\ufeff</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The only thing I can add to this discussion is a question about potential training for drivers. Are we as \u201cservice animal\u201d groups enlisting allies within the driver community of various ethnic groups, who speak various languages? Sometimes the message comes over better from someone in your peer group. </div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Not to make excuses at all for denials but I had one recently like yours, Julie, in which the person had no idea what service animal meant, what guide dog meant, what Seeing eye Dog meant. I had to tell him I was blind and this was my helper dog before he understood. Then he was fine and we had a lovely trip but prior to that we were at a standstill. </div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">I\u2019m wondering if we\u2019re assuming too much and not factoring in our own cultural sensitivity when it comes to the training ride share companies provide. </div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Otherwise, I\u2019m incredibly frustrated on your behalf, Julie as I keep reading accounts of denials like yours. </div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">On Apr 9, 2025, at 9:35<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">\u202f</span>AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU <<a href="mailto:nagdu@nfbnet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">nagdu@nfbnet.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Julie. I\u2019m so frustrated on your behalf. The driver should get a notification that says \u201crider has a service animal.\u201d If they hit cancel at that point, the app reminds them that it\u2019s against the law and Uber\u2019s policy to deny access. If they still hit cancel, then it\u2019s supposed to trigger a streamlined complaint process available to you in the app or through a link in your email. If the drivers ignore the pop-up and just arrive and see you and then decide they don\u2019t want to take you and cancel, I would think that the pop-up in your app about filing a complaint should still pop up. What was your experience? Were you easily able to file complaints either with the link in your email or the prompt in the app, or did you have to dig around in the menus like we normally had to do and file a complaint that way? This of course assumes that people just have time to monitor what they\u2019re getting in the app and file complaints somewhat contemporaneously, but I still wanted to ask what your experience was on that front.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">NAGDU <<a href="mailto:nagdu-bounces@nfbnet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">nagdu-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Julie A. Orozco via NAGDU<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, April 8, 2025 9:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <<a href="mailto:nagdu@nfbnet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">nagdu@nfbnet.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Julie A. Orozco <<a href="mailto:kaybaycar@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">kaybaycar@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Good evening fellow guide dog users,</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I hope all of you are doing well. I am *<b>finally</b>* working my third guide dog, a male chocolate lab from The Seeing Eye, called Xavier. He\u2019s a wonderful dog and a joy to work.</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Of course, working a dog brings about the inevitable Uber denials. I\u2019ve gotten three so far, and we\u2019ve only been home a couple of weeks. (Uber and Lyft are really terrible in the DC area.)</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">For some reason, Sunday was just a bad day for me and Uber. I have self ID turned on, so drivers should be notified when they arrive that they are picking up someone with a service animal and that they are required by law to allow us in their car. At least, that was my understanding. But these drivers seem unable to understand the self ID notification. Either that, or they are not being notified properly.</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I had three drivers on Sunday going to and from a friend\u2019s house. The first driver took me, only when I pointed to my eyes and told him I was blind and that my dog was working. (Sometimes, looking blind has its advantages.) He did not understand when I asked him if the app told him I was traveling with a service animal.</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The second driver, the one who was set to take me home, refused us access. He did not speak English, but even when my friend and I pulled out Google translate, he would not budge. He said no dogs in his car and even canceled the ride. I am not sure if he received the notification, but he seemed totally clueless about the whole service animal thing. I don\u2019t think he was faking it either because if so, he wouldn\u2019t have wanted to cancel the ride himself.</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The third driver didn\u2019t want to take me at first either. I had to explain to him what my dog was for, and once I did, he got it. I asked him if he received the notification, and he said yes but that he didn\u2019t get a chance to read it. He said he could just get passed it without reading it.</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">So, my questions follow. Are drivers being notified and trained about their requirements under law to take service animal teams in their language of choice? Second, what does the notification system look like? I imagined something that would pop up and force them to read before proceeding with the trip. How are so many of my drivers seeming confused about me and my guide dog? Is this still happening to anyone else? Or do I live in the land of Uber access denials?</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I was hesitant about self ID, but I am happy with it because it doesn\u2019t alert the drivers until they arrive. It\u2019s like Uber telling them for me when I\u2019m right there that the driver has to follow the law and take me with my service animal. But it\u2019s not effective if drivers can just ignore the notifications.</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Apologies for the long email, and thank you for any perspective you can provide.</span></div>
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<a href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40icloud.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40icloud.com</a></div>
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