[NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus

Thu Jun 10 17:49:01 UTC 2021

Would any of these "educators" ever tell  a parent that their totally sighted child that there is no reason for the child to be taught writing with a pen and pencil because there is "technology" aavailable to them? Of course not. How dare they tell partially blind and totally blind the same thing? Sounds like discrimination to me.
Debbie

-----Original Message-----
From: NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 7:30 AM
To: NFB Braille Discussion List <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Mike Jolls <mrspock56 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus

Ramona

One thing I agree with is that computers or recordings WILL NEVER replace Braille.  Audio has its place but when you have to know spelling or syntax and you can’t do it in print, Braille is what does it.  Blind people deserve literate just like the sighted so that should be the end of the discussion.  Educators need to learn that audio doesn’t cut it in these situations and should stop short changing the blind.  We deserve an education too.

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2021, at 8:58 AM, Ramona via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> That's why teacher training should stress first and second sides of the cell. They get fixated on left and right and reversal which gets passed on to the students. Some students become fast on the slate, and the problem gets eliminated. Some do not, just as many teachers do not. It is a project that needs attention. Maybe this is the best we can do, I would love to get  involved in some college training for teachers of blind kids and adults. It just makes writing with the slate and stylus seem difficult when it is not. Yes you need a certain set of muscles, but you need that for writing with a pen or pencil. It comes with practice. It also leads to people thinking the computer will take care of this "difficulty." Recordings were going to replace Braille; now it's computers. If people like Curtis Chong and Steve Jacobsen use the slate, then let's not deprive our kids of it. 
> 
> RamonaOn Jun 9, 2021 6:11 PM, Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Ramona
>> 
>> Oh I knew 1-2-3 was the first set of dots on the first side, and I knew 4-5-6 was on the other side.  It’s just, as I tried to say, I always thought of 1-2-3 ONLY ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE CELL when you’re looking at the slate.  I never thought of assigning 1-2-3 to the right hand side of the cell.  That’s because my teacher told me at the start … 1-2-3 is on the left.  And 4-5-6 is on the right.  Since she never said anything else, I never thought any differently.  So when I had to write an F I had to mentally translate ….. “1-2-4 is dots 4-5-1 when writing”.  And when your mind is doing that, you have to do that for EVERY SYMBOL YOU WRITE.  I never thought of changing the dot number assignments for writing and just think 1-2-4.  That might have made it easier, and it probably would have made me a faster writer since having to mentally translate adds a half second (or something like that) to almost every character you write.  Thinking about it “being in reverse” was just natural for me.  Had I been told to change dot number assignments, it might have made it easier because as Allison said, I had to think … “what’s the reverse pattern” … for almost every symbol written. 
>> 
>> 
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>> From: Ramona via 
>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 7:00 PM
>> To: Mike Jolls via 
>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Ramona<mailto:walhoframona at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
>> 
>> 1-2-3 is always the first side of the cell. it is really that simple. I'm sorry teachers do not receive that information before they ever meet a student. 
>> 
>> RamonaOn Jun 9, 2021 4:00 PM, Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> I’d like to weigh in here on “writing backwards”.  I’m a partially sighted person who found Braille in my early 50’s.  I’m 65 and I still use it.  I go back and forth with print and Braille.  It’s great having both skills and I can use Braille when I know print just isn’t going to work.  I wish I had known Braille LOT EARLIER … but it just didn’t happen.  Personally, I think every partially sighted student should learn Braille.  Then they can use whichever method will work for them in a given situation.  Of course that’s not what this topic is about and I won’t go further.  That’s another topic if we want to pursue it. 
>>> 
>>> Now, onto “writing backwards” on the slate and stylus. 
>>> 
>>> When I learned Braille and learned to write with a slate and stylus, I ALWAYS thought that writing was OPPOSITE or BACKWARDS to how you read it.  You write it right to left rather than when you’re reading it.  You had to use the “opposite dot pattern” when writing a character in the cell.  That’s backwards in my thinking.  A “B” for example is written in dots 4,5 on the right side of the cell rather than 1,2 on the left side of the cell (that assumes you are still thinking about the cell dots in the configuration used for reading).  And I always did this.  My teacher NEVER told me to think of dots 1 and 2 on the right side of the cell when writing.  I knew a B was dots 1,2.  I knew dots 1,2 were on the left (for reading).  Since I had to write them on the right hand side of the cell, I thought it was BACKWARDS.  You had to use 4-5 to write a B which should up as dots 1-2 when you read it.  I remember my teacher liked to say “mirror image”.  Had she told me that I should consider 1,2 on the right hand side of the cell for writing and 4-5-6 was on the left, maybe I wouldn’t have thought it was backwards.  I would have thought .. OK … 1-2-3 are on the left for reading, but they’re on the right side for writing.  Since she didn’t make that distinction, I saw that the dots had to be in the opposite position to that for reading so that when you flipped the page over, they’d be correct for reading.  So I just thought .. punch the opposite dots in the cell when writing a character.  My realization may have reinforced the idea of opposite.  That’s just how I perceived the process.  I remember once I mentioned to her that I was writing the characters BACKWARDS.  I was immediately told I was wrong and “we don’t use the word backwards, it’s too confusing”.  Personally I didn’t see it as confusing.  I just saw that this was what you had to do.  And I do remember that I made my fair share of errors when writing.  Perhaps that would have been less had I just considered things differently for writing. 
>>> 
>>> Anyway that’s how I learned.  It just seemed natural to think about writing “the opposite pattern” to get it come out right for reading. 
>>> 
>>> Please feel free to comment. 
>>> 
>>> Mike Jolls
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> From: Susan Jolly via 
>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 4:08 PM
>>> To: 'NFB Braille Discussion 
>>> List'<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Susan Jolly<mailto:easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
>>> 
>>> I wonder if opposite would be a better word? You read from 
>>> left-to-right and write from right-to-left.  They are both the opposite of the other one.
>>> 
>>> My father, who was born over a hundred years ago, could write print 
>>> backwards almost as easily as forwards.  I got the impression that 
>>> was something a lot of sighted people used to do. It kept other 
>>> people from looking over their shoulder and reading what they were 
>>> writing with a quick glance.  This could be helpful if they were 
>>> writing something private like a note to pass to a friend in school.  
>>> Of course the main point of this story is that all it requires is motivation and practice.
>>> 
>>> HTH, Susan J
>>> 
>>> 
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