[NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus

Debbie Gabe dgabe808 at gmail.com
Tue Jun 15 04:35:57 UTC 2021


I know what you mean. I learned braille by shapes, even though my braille teacher kept emphasizing numbers. I didn't know why the numbers were important until I began slating. Taking the shapes and translating them into numbers really helped me learn to properly slate, until I developed muscle memory for slating. But I think after teaching braille to adults, that those who learn it by shapes begin to read faster. And those who learn by dot numbers have less trouble slating. Both are equally important, I think.
Debbie

-----Original Message-----
From: NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Allison Hilliker via NFB-Braille-Discussion
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 10:20 AM
To: NFB Braille Discussion List <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Allison Hilliker <AllisonH at Benetech.org>
Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus

I'm inclined to agree with Jessica. As I teach my kids, I have to really think to tell them the dot numbers of any letter or symbol. I just didn't learn braille that way. It may be an effective way to learn braille, it's just not how I did it. I don't think of braille in terms of dot numbers. And I'm not sure I ever did. I think of braille characters as their shapes, and only break them down to translate them into their corresponding dot number names if I really need to. And even then, it takes me a second and doesn't flow naturally. And I've been reading braille for decades. I use it every day. I think people just learn differently. I suppose I could learn dot numbers if I had to, it's just not a thing I've really needed to do.

Best,
Allison


-----Original Message-----
From: NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jessica Gladysz via NFB-Braille-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 9:25 PM
To: NFB Braille Discussion List <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jessica Gladysz <jessica at campbowen.ca>
Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus

This is a great idea and would work for many people, however, for spatial learners, this will definitely not work. I know I really struggled with dot numbers as a child because I was a spatial learner. I thought of Vraille much more in terms of shapes and still do. I had to learn braille music by drilling with dot Numbers because I was learning from someone who didn’t read braille but just read a chart of dot numbers. I did it but it was a real struggle. As an adult I can conceptualize dot numbers more easily but as a child this was extremely difficult.

Warm regards,
Jessica



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2021, at 6:12 PM, Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Ellen
> 
> I think your suggestion is an excellent idea.  I’ll have to try that myself.  Get the dots for each character in your mind and then it shouldn’t matter which side of the cell you start on.  I wonder how sighted people who want to be Braille instructors think about writing the character patterns.  Do they just think dot 1 on the right for writing, or do they visualize the pattern and do it backwards.  Maybe it would be better to have blind people teach Braille.
> 
> Anyway I think your idea is a good one and as I say, I’m going to try it.  Thank you for sharing.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
> 
> From: Ellen Ringlein via
> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 5:28 PM
> To: 'NFB Braille Discussion
> List'<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Ellen Ringlein<mailto:germlish77 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
> 
> Hi Allison,
> 
> Perhaps if you think of dots 1, 2, 3 as the starting side of the Braille cell, it may help. When you read  you start from the left and when you write with the slate you start on the write. If you drill your kids on the dot numbers that go with the letters, it will be easier to think of slating letters according to the dot numbers, not the shapes. That way they don't have to do the mental gymnastic of reversing the shapes in their head. After a while you no longer need to think of the dot numbers, writing becomes automatic just like with a Braille writer.
> 
> A peg slate from APH or the Braille Caravan available from the NFB Independence Market may help explain  these concepts. The pegs in the Braille cells move up and down and don't come out. With these tools it is easier to understand how dots 1, 2, 3 always refer to the same pegs.
> 
> Cordially,
> 
> Ellen
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFB-Braille-Discussion
> [mailto:nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Allison Hilliker via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: NFB Braille Discussion List <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Allison Hilliker <AllisonH at Benetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
> 
> Ramona, please come to Phoenix and teach my kids. They learn best from anyone who's not mom. And you sound very passionate about the subject.  All the competent braille readers I know locally are already employed. So I'm left to either teach them myself, or let the public school TVIs teach them, and we already know how well braille instruction in public school goes. I didn't really understand your explanation of how to explain the slate cell setup differently, but I believe you. I'm sure you're right about it. I'm just over here doing the best I can with little support.  Honestly, truly braille positive folks are rare, and spread thinly throughout this country. I'm finding that I can't even pay somebody to teach my girls reading and writing in braille, and that's sad. Cuz I know full well how crucial quality literacy instruction is for young blind kids. So I'm attempting to do it myself, but nothing mom knows or does is interesting to my girls. Plus, I don't have all the answers. Far from it. I would give my left arm to have a braille positive NFB sort nearby to teach my girls. I even have funding to hire somebody, just no interest. I've networked via my state affiliate, and there's just nothing. So I'm doing what I can on my own.
> 
> Best,
> Allison
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFB-Braille-Discussion
> <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ramona via 
> NFB-Braille-Discussion
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 6:56 AM
> To: Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion 
> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Ramona <walhoframona at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
> 
> That's why teacher training should stress first and second sides of the cell. They get fixated on left and right and reversal which gets passed on to the students. Some students become fast on the slate, and the problem gets eliminated. Some do not, just as many teachers do not. It is a project that needs attention. Maybe this is the best we can do, I would love to get  involved in some college training for teachers of blind kids and adults. It just makes writing with the slate and stylus seem difficult when it is not. Yes you need a certain set of muscles, but you need that for writing with a pen or pencil. It comes with practice. It also leads to people thinking the computer will take care of this "difficulty." Recordings were going to replace Braille; now it's computers. If people like Curtis Chong and Steve Jacobsen use the slate, then let's not deprive our kids of it.
> 
> RamonaOn Jun 9, 2021 6:11 PM, Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Ramona
>> 
>> Oh I knew 1-2-3 was the first set of dots on the first side, and I knew 4-5-6 was on the other side.  It’s just, as I tried to say, I always thought of 1-2-3 ONLY ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE CELL when you’re looking at the slate.  I never thought of assigning 1-2-3 to the right hand side of the cell.  That’s because my teacher told me at the start … 1-2-3 is on the left.  And 4-5-6 is on the right.  Since she never said anything else, I never thought any differently.  So when I had to write an F I had to mentally translate ….. “1-2-4 is dots 4-5-1 when writing”.  And when your mind is doing that, you have to do that for EVERY SYMBOL YOU WRITE.  I never thought of changing the dot number assignments for writing and just think 1-2-4.  That might have made it easier, and it probably would have made me a faster writer since having to mentally translate adds a half second (or something like that) to almost every character you write.  Thinking about it “being in reverse” was just natural for me.  Had I been told to change dot number assignments, it might have made it easier because as Allison said, I had to think … “what’s the reverse pattern” … for almost every symbol written.
>> 
>> 
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>> From: Ramona via
>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 7:00 PM
>> To: Mike Jolls via
>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Ramona<mailto:walhoframona at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
>> 
>> 1-2-3 is always the first side of the cell. it is really that simple. I'm sorry teachers do not receive that information before they ever meet a student.
>> 
>> RamonaOn Jun 9, 2021 4:00 PM, Mike Jolls via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’d like to weigh in here on “writing backwards”.  I’m a partially sighted person who found Braille in my early 50’s.  I’m 65 and I still use it.  I go back and forth with print and Braille.  It’s great having both skills and I can use Braille when I know print just isn’t going to work.  I wish I had known Braille LOT EARLIER … but it just didn’t happen.  Personally, I think every partially sighted student should learn Braille.  Then they can use whichever method will work for them in a given situation.  Of course that’s not what this topic is about and I won’t go further.  That’s another topic if we want to pursue it.
>>> 
>>> Now, onto “writing backwards” on the slate and stylus.
>>> 
>>> When I learned Braille and learned to write with a slate and stylus, I ALWAYS thought that writing was OPPOSITE or BACKWARDS to how you read it.  You write it right to left rather than when you’re reading it.  You had to use the “opposite dot pattern” when writing a character in the cell.  That’s backwards in my thinking.  A “B” for example is written in dots 4,5 on the right side of the cell rather than 1,2 on the left side of the cell (that assumes you are still thinking about the cell dots in the configuration used for reading).  And I always did this.  My teacher NEVER told me to think of dots 1 and 2 on the right side of the cell when writing.  I knew a B was dots 1,2.  I knew dots 1,2 were on the left (for reading).  Since I had to write them on the right hand side of the cell, I thought it was BACKWARDS.  You had to use 4-5 to write a B which should up as dots 1-2 when you read it.  I remember my teacher liked to say “mirror image”.  Had she told me that I should consider 1,2 on the right hand side of the cell for writing and 4-5-6 was on the left, maybe I wouldn’t have thought it was backwards.  I would have thought .. OK … 1-2-3 are on the left for reading, but they’re on the right side for writing.  Since she didn’t make that distinction, I saw that the dots had to be in the opposite position to that for reading so that when you flipped the page over, they’d be correct for reading.  So I just thought .. punch the opposite dots in the cell when writing a character.  My realization may have reinforced the idea of opposite.  That’s just how I perceived the process.  I remember once I mentioned to her that I was writing the characters BACKWARDS.  I was immediately told I was wrong and “we don’t use the word backwards, it’s too confusing”.  Personally I didn’t see it as confusing.  I just saw that this was what you had to do.  And I do remember that I made my fair share of errors when writing.  Perhaps that would have been less had I just considered things differently for writing.
>>> 
>>> Anyway that’s how I learned.  It just seemed natural to think about writing “the opposite pattern” to get it come out right for reading.
>>> 
>>> Please feel free to comment.
>>> 
>>> Mike Jolls
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> From: Susan Jolly via
>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 4:08 PM
>>> To: 'NFB Braille Discussion
>>> List'<mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Susan Jolly<mailto:easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
>>> 
>>> I wonder if opposite would be a better word? You read from 
>>> left-to-right and write from right-to-left.  They are both the opposite of the other one.
>>> 
>>> My father, who was born over a hundred years ago, could write print 
>>> backwards almost as easily as forwards.  I got the impression that 
>>> was something a lot of sighted people used to do. It kept other 
>>> people from looking over their shoulder and reading what they were 
>>> writing with a quick glance.  This could be helpful if they were 
>>> writing something private like a note to pass to a friend in school.
>>> Of course the main point of this story is that all it requires is motivation and practice.
>>> 
>>> HTH, Susan J
>>> 
>>> 
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